General Discussion

Chan790

(20,176 posts)

123. Realizing that you're not a political scientist...

Reply to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #120)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:10 AM

Jun 2016

most-all of those words (other than references to the 99%) aren't really new and they all have definitions that separate them from what you misunderstand them to mean and the words you think they're substitutes for.

It's simply not worth my energy to explain political vocabulary, frankly, because "conservative Democrats" strike me as misinformed Republicans that think we give a shit what they think and are confused by us not wanting conservatives in our tent at all. There are very few things that progressives and the establishment center-left can agree on...I'm pretty sure the lack of interest in allowing a seat at the table for actual right-of-center Democrats is one of them.

Conservative Democrats are a figment of imagination on par with liberal Republicans, unicorns, benevolent capitalists, "male-enhancement" pills that work, 1-900 psychics that aren't con-artists, snow on the equator, and Brussel sprouts that taste like candy.

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If you could vote on TPP for America like UK voted on Brexit, how would YOU vote? [View all] nikto Jun 2016 OP

I vote: No nikto Jun 2016 #1

I vote: This is stupid. The TPP is not a union cprise Jul 2016 #159

Fuck no. bemildred Jun 2016 #2

Is "Oh, Hell No!" an option ? GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #3

This poll tries to conflate BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #4

So, is that a "yes"? nikto Jun 2016 #5

That is ... I am not BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #6

That's a "yes" nikto Jun 2016 #15

+1,000,000 ... Trajan Jun 2016 #32

Only to one with an BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #33

Pure projection nikto Jun 2016 #41

It was a buttwipe-ish type poll. Thanks for not falling for it. n/t Aerows Jun 2016 #109

You are very welcome! eom BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #110

You are the best, Expat Aerows Jun 2016 #111

Hardly "the best," lol! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #112

Rock on, dear! Aerows Jun 2016 #113

Oof... Nuanced answers to simplified questions are not always.. TreasonousBastard Jun 2016 #7

Thank you very much! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #8

And, the first trade agreement (that I am aware of) that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #80

That is the most absurd argument I've heard. seabeckind Jul 2016 #137

Forgive them. They know not what they argue for nikto Jul 2016 #151

Speaking of Indonesia, FDR weighed in on it (well on the island of Java actually): pampango Jul 2016 #141

What about TPP's Loss of Sovereignty issue? nikto Jun 2016 #42

Well said. Hoyt Jun 2016 #12

Yes. TPP (like the EU is far from perfect) but it is better than sticking with NAFTA and the WTO, pampango Jun 2016 #9

Again, as I have suggested to another poster ... nikto Jun 2016 #44

I value human rights, labor rights and the environment over the sovereignty of the nation-state pampango Jun 2016 #66

"TPP is worse than the WTO and NAFTA with respect to human rights, labor rights and the environment" Chan790 Jun 2016 #68

"It's rare that the extreme right is right about anything...but they're dead-on FTA's." pampango Jun 2016 #78

You can count me as a proponent of withdrawal from NAFTA and destruction of the WTO, TYVM. n/t Chan790 Jun 2016 #90

Back to FDR or all the way to Herbert Hooover? n/t pampango Jun 2016 #94

Income inequality is at its highest level in American history Doremus Jul 2016 #162

"Obama warned that pulling out of trade deals "is the wrong medicine for dealing with inequality." pampango Jul 2016 #163

They're not particularly comparable, but I'd give a marginal "yes" for TPP Recursion Jun 2016 #10

Please investigate: Loss Of Sovereignty aspect of TPP nikto Jun 2016 #45

I do, and your terminology suggests you don't, but just read hysterical articles on the Internet Recursion Jun 2016 #50

IT's YOU!! Finally, I have found someone who understands the "loss of soverignty" aspect of TPP nikto Jun 2016 #55

As concise as it gets: Recursion Jun 2016 #56

OK...but did you know the Canadian oil company that was going to PatrickforO Jun 2016 #61

I do know that. Why shouldn't they sue? Recursion Jun 2016 #63

Whaaat? seabeckind Jul 2016 #139

I have never ever seen an argument that the existing pipeline is safer Recursion Jul 2016 #146

Nice try at shifting the goal post. seabeckind Jul 2016 #148

That's not "shifting the goal". That is the ONLY question that matters Recursion Jul 2016 #149

Extremely unconvincing, relies on emotion to Make the case nikto Jun 2016 #62

Whatever Recursion Jun 2016 #64

Except you never made any actual argument--No substance whatsoever. nikto Jun 2016 #65

So...you agree that they don't work then. Chan790 Jun 2016 #71

No, they are doing a pretty good job. I prefer NAFTA to China's PNTR Recursion Jun 2016 #106

You know what else works? Chan790 Jun 2016 #69

Tariffs are nationalistic bullshit that will only prop up businesses that can't compete YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #75

I'm equally perplexed by supposed progressives... Chan790 Jun 2016 #77

Protectionist policies are a godsend to business interests and terrible for consumers YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #81

Fine...can we at-least concede that they're opposite arms of the pendulum swing... Chan790 Jun 2016 #91

I don't dispute that some workers in the US are displaced by free trade YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #92

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #84

Hell No! Jack Bone Jun 2016 #11

HELL NO to the giant corporations and banksters Elwood P Dowd Jun 2016 #13

Eff NO! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #14

Important Info for those who are (some perhaps willfully?) blind on Globalization nikto Jun 2016 #16

Sounded reasonable Egnever Jun 2016 #37

You need more info nikto Jun 2016 #47

it is basically what happened under the wto - remember how the US passed that hollysmom Jun 2016 #53

Excellent points, all nikto Jun 2016 #54

Both articles were written before the actual text was available Egnever Jul 2016 #135

YES! MohRokTah Jun 2016 #17

Did Darwin tell you that? Human101948 Jun 2016 #28

Exactly! nikto Jun 2016 #48

That sounds more like an argument for why we need to murder capitalism. Chan790 Jun 2016 #72

Murder capitalism? Forget neo-liberalism, it's all the neo-communists running around ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2016 #120

Realizing that you're not a political scientist... Chan790 Jun 2016 #123

You're clearly not a political scientist either... ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2016 #124

Thank you. n/t seabeckind Jul 2016 #138

And "capitalistic economies" are a good thing truebluegreen Jul 2016 #157

No. And I also wish we could have a vote on guns. Vinca Jun 2016 #18

Against sakabatou Jun 2016 #19

I would hope that teh TPP would actually be released for study before we voted on it. Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #20

this op, whether intentionally or not, conflates the TPP with the EU cali Jun 2016 #21

Why is the EU so much better than TPP? nikto Jun 2016 #23

what? I didn't say it was. cali Jun 2016 #26

I guess I just need someone to tell me ... nikto Jun 2016 #49

Maybe you should research PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #103

Not bad, but ... nikto Jun 2016 #117

I don't support TTP or TTIP PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #122

I would vote "NO" to TPP, and stay in the union louis c Jun 2016 #22

Truly, TPP and Labor Unions are mortal enemies nikto Jun 2016 #24

NO. n/t Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #25

Seriously people are voting yes on TPP??? Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #27

This surprises you? Chan790 Jun 2016 #73

Actually yes it shocks me on DU... Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #100

I would vote NO! whathehell Jun 2016 #29

ask me an easier one Motley13 Jun 2016 #30

No. roamer65 Jun 2016 #31

Not only no, hell fucking no! onecaliberal Jun 2016 #34

Yes to Brexit. 840high Jun 2016 #35

No to TTP 840high Jun 2016 #36

Yes Egnever Jun 2016 #38

+1 Well said YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #88

Hell NO. nt LWolf Jun 2016 #39

Absolutely NO! Duval Jun 2016 #40

NO, NO, NO!!! avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #43

As a Californian, I am sick of referendums on the ballot. We elect people to do a job--do it! Hekate Jun 2016 #46

Not only no but FUCK NO. Tap tap no tap backs. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #51

No...I'm not stupid, greedy or crazy! peace13 Jun 2016 #52

NO! eom mikehiggins Jun 2016 #57

NO NO NO!!!!!! Arizona Roadrunner Jun 2016 #58

I would vote NO to TPP! burrowowl Jun 2016 #59

NO. TPP is a BAD policy, a BAD agreement that will undermine democracy and PatrickforO Jun 2016 #60

No. Chan790 Jun 2016 #67

I'd much rather prefer it if China writes the rules of international trade than the US YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #70

There is probably no more ridiculous argument for FTAs than this one. Chan790 Jun 2016 #76

Don't you realize that is an empty attempt at an argument? nikto Jun 2016 #97

No. nt tblue37 Jun 2016 #74

Unequivocally, no. With no chance of ever regretting that 'no'. w4rma Jun 2016 #79

It's also supported by most reputable economists YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #83

TPP 'worst trade deal ever,' says Nobel-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz w4rma Jun 2016 #86

And *no*, "most reputable economists" do *not* support the TPP. They are split. w4rma Jun 2016 #87

No, no way. n/t woodsprite Jun 2016 #82

Nope OriginalGeek Jun 2016 #85

OUT. Free trade without fair trade is killing us. Warpy Jun 2016 #89

I agree. Also----that's the 1st good thing I've heard about the EU nikto Jun 2016 #98

The same way I vote on a lot of things. hobbit709 Jun 2016 #93

pretty damn close to reality, there. the only good corporation is a........one. Gabi Hayes Jun 2016 #95

"If the corporations are for it, I'm against it." nikto Jun 2016 #116

No. PowerToThePeople Jun 2016 #96

It seems like finding good things to say about TPP is as easy as ... nikto Jun 2016 #99

Hillary will re-negotiate TPP and take nest Jun 2016 #101

JMO nikto Jun 2016 #102

No. nt silvershadow Jun 2016 #104

No. n/t ozone_man Jun 2016 #105

Trade Trump to North Korea Night Watchman Jun 2016 #107

Fuck no to tpp. n/t Aerows Jun 2016 #108

Whatever is the next up from fuck no. TheKentuckian Jun 2016 #114

YES !!!! OnDoutside Jun 2016 #115

Here's something happening RIGHT NOW, that will only worsen under TPP ... nikto Jun 2016 #118

It's definitely a "NO" for me KeizoOshima2 Jun 2016 #119

From a UK-er: TPP and Brexit are not comparable! LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #121

Thanks for the response nikto Jul 2016 #125

I mean, I see the interest in the question. Just curious- why did you not just make it a poll? nt silvershadow Jul 2016 #126

I guess I'm not "special" enough to do a poll nikto Jul 2016 #127

Thanks. I just found out you have to be a paying member. Sorry. silvershadow Jul 2016 #131

Have to be a paying member. Rex Jul 2016 #128

Ah, I actually didn't realize that. nt silvershadow Jul 2016 #130

No. Rex Jul 2016 #129

Absolutely NO nt AntiBank Jul 2016 #132

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #133

Free Scotland! Night Watchman Jul 2016 #134

This changed my mind on Brexit--Here's the best explanation of Brexit I've heard yet (Audio) nikto Jul 2016 #136

No. seabeckind Jul 2016 #140

Voting for Brexit and a hypothetical about the TPP is no different from implying... randome Jul 2016 #142

FDR: Perfectionism, no less than isolationism or imperialism ..., may obstruct the path to pampango Jul 2016 #144

Perfectionism is like Trump tearing up every agreement that doesn't make us masters of the world. randome Jul 2016 #145

It sounds like you don't know the first thing about TPP nikto Jul 2016 #150

New powers? Like the ISDS? There have been arbitration courts for over 50 years now. randome Jul 2016 #153

"Better than nothing", "better than we had before" etc etc etc etc nikto Jul 2016 #161

The Corporate Devil's Dictionary Definition of, "Perfectionism" (as used by Centrist Democrats) nikto Jul 2016 #152

Agreed. FDR warned against letting 'the perfect being the enemy of the good'. He would certainly pampango Jul 2016 #155

NO! B Calm Jul 2016 #143

NO louis c Jul 2016 #147

Fuck no. TDale313 Jul 2016 #154

vote no eom mikehiggins Jul 2016 #156

surprised? lonestarnot Jul 2016 #158

No My Good Babushka Jul 2016 #160

If you could vote for apples, would you vote also for oranges? Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #164