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alc

(1,151 posts)

64. This is part of the reason for H1Bs

Reply to Heeeeers Johnny (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 01:00 PM

Jun 2016

I'm against most H1B use but this is part of the reason companies go that route. I've worked for 2 companies that pay more for H1Bs than they would for direct hires (the consulting company takes a huge cut so the workers don't get that much).

If you need 100s of IT workers it's a risk having new grads or young junior developers (which you need for cost and worker availability reasons). 5-10 will have this attitude and will often get others to go with them.

They tell me I'm using the wrong programming language; wrong platform; wrong tools; wrong methodology. Or the business is stupid for asking for this requirement or that tool or some data analysis. And we have THE SAME discussion every week. I've had junior developers do things "their way" AFTER we had a discussion of "their way" vs "my way". And use an open source library AFTER legal told us not to. And bypass me and go directly to the business to tell them they wouldn't get what they asked for because it was stupid (the trouble makers don't have a lot of tact). Most are not like this but a small percent cause huge headaches. And potential legal liabilities they don't understand even after being told. A $multi-million fine can happen really quick with cookies, and user-uploaded content, and accessibility for the disabled. And some junior developers don't care no matter how much training legal and senior developers give them.

H1Bs don't have this problem. And when there is a problem the company you hire them from will have them replaced tomorrow. There are many other problems with H1Bs but certain classes of headaches don't happen.

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Article: I was fired from my internship for writing a proposal for a more flexible dress code [View all] Heeeeers Johnny Jun 2016 OP

I feel bad metroins Jun 2016 #1

I guess they lean pretty quick when you work for somebody else snooper2 Jun 2016 #10

We coddle them to much and can't handle the real world yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #47

yup. This has gone too far Albertoo Jun 2016 #190

As an intern, you are there to learn about the job and industry, not change the company policy tonyt53 Jun 2016 #2

And learn they did! The hard way. WillowTree Jul 2016 #226

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #3

I particularly love where the kid talks about how he/she "should have been told" why Squinch Jun 2016 #17

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #20

In the article it says that the other employee was a returning soldier who had lost her leg. Squinch Jun 2016 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #40

Typically, exemptions to such policy can be health related. MohRokTah Jun 2016 #192

Exactly. In the case of this letter, ADA tammywammy Jun 2016 #200

The employee who was exempt was exempt because they were a returning soldier who had lost a leg. Squinch Jun 2016 #220

The part that said she had to start crippling herself to comply with a stupid footwear dress code Warpy Jun 2016 #189

I can't wear heels anymore. phylny Jun 2016 #205

The article didn't say anything about closed toe shoes with two inch heels. Squinch Jun 2016 #212

No flats, no open shoes (sandals), nothing but leather... Warpy Jun 2016 #223

Ive seen people wear really low blocky heels- like 3/4-1" bettyellen Jul 2016 #235

The petition specified that they wanted to be able to wear "non-leather flats." That Squinch Jul 2016 #245

This needs more information. Initech Jun 2016 #4

No. It doesn't. None of that matters ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #11

+10000000000 EllieBC Jun 2016 #16

doesn't really matter, probably sales or banking of some sort... snooper2 Jun 2016 #12

No need more information. Drahthaardogs Jun 2016 #59

"Earned the right to be heard" FixTheProblem Jul 2016 #252

Well, I think you should at least know where the bathrooms are Drahthaardogs Jul 2016 #262

No it doesn't! WillowTree Jul 2016 #229

Then how about some more butter? Initech Jul 2016 #230

"I was able to get a summer internship at a company that does work in the industry..." jberryhill Jun 2016 #5

Lol. So much this. nt B2G Jun 2016 #8

Oh, my best laugh of the day! LisaM Jun 2016 #136

It's actually more like a right wing fantasy story. hunter Jun 2016 #150

"Article: Intern learns valuable lesson". n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #6

No. I doubt they learned a single thing ... beyond, of course ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #7

Too bad someone like you wasn't there to tell them this when the issue was first raised. Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #54

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #56

Well yeah, because there's a whole world out there. It would be a bummer if we peaked at 20. Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #58

Not particularly ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #60

U.S.A. workers are so pathetic. hunter Jun 2016 #9

I don't understand your point? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #13

What sort of business considers intern talk about shoes a threat? hunter Jun 2016 #30

When they start using up more resources than they can possibly generate, Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #57

I wouldn't consider it a threat whatthehey Jun 2016 #62

The thing that terrified management is that the interns organized. hunter Jun 2016 #65

I am not psychic enough to know they were terrified whatthehey Jun 2016 #73

It's not that they were organized tammywammy Jun 2016 #76

I'd say it was their manager wasting time. hunter Jun 2016 #153

I agree with you to a point. rockfordfile Jun 2016 #83

I have interns, and if they did this, they would be fired, too obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #114

It's difficult to see how a good manager would let this petty office drama go so far. hunter Jun 2016 #149

"a bum"?? philosslayer Jul 2016 #231

I was trying to write a story like a Trump voter would. hunter Jul 2016 #234

+1 leftstreet Jun 2016 #120

"terrified" is not the same thing as "annoyed." NuclearDem Jun 2016 #126

Management is not "terrified" of anyone they can fire in an instant. Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #134

I don't think it's a real story. If it is, it reflects badly on management. hunter Jun 2016 #155

But, it's on the Internet. It MUST be true!!! n/t Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #194

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #43

What the fuck are you talking about? hunter Jun 2016 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #66

They are. This nation will fold to the first fascist who comes along. hunter Jun 2016 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #70

I voted for Clinton in the primary. hunter Jun 2016 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #92

That's not true rockfordfile Jun 2016 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #91

This is DU. Optimism is for the stupid sheeple. Throd Jun 2016 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #100

Oh, I'm pretty sure a fair number of working class Hortensis Jun 2016 #145

I think you are on to something d_r Jul 2016 #233

lol, yes, correct. closeupready Jun 2016 #109

I think we can crash land this fossil fueled civilization and walk away. hunter Jun 2016 #160

You seem to be making a broadbased leftynyc Jun 2016 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #94

I don't think that has anything to do with my point leftynyc Jun 2016 #95

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #96

I see no reason to assume these interns are Hortensis Jun 2016 #154

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #156

THIS kid was talking about himself only, however. Hortensis Jun 2016 #163

"snowflakes"? Wow. That is offensive as hell. Buzz Clik Jun 2016 #14

Not really. This kid thought he/she could dictate terms to the company when he/she didn't Squinch Jun 2016 #18

But it's okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #22

And he/she didn't have to do any more nasty work-ey jobs all summer long. Squinch Jun 2016 #24

Exactly. cwydro Jun 2016 #142

I'm hoping people like my parents were there instead. EllieBC Jun 2016 #26

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #33

I got fired when I was 16 from my first job. EllieBC Jun 2016 #90

My first "real" job was working the stock room of a men's clothing store ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #97

Not if your boss was abusive; THEN, I'd say, fuck it. closeupready Jun 2016 #108

Yes ... Insisting that a young adult (child) own up to their decision ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #113

I don't know, you tell us. I sure wouldn't have done that. closeupready Jun 2016 #122

I'll tell you ... There is nothing wrong with his insisting that I own my decision to quit ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #124

If your boss was abusive and he told you to subject yourself to that abuse further, closeupready Jun 2016 #129

I said the boss was an ass (in the eyes of a 15 year old) ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #135

Okay, you know what, I'm not here to pick a fight with either one of you. closeupready Jun 2016 #137

Sounds like you may be blowing up the "abusive" part Hortensis Jun 2016 #159

I think the father taught him a lesson in responsibility. You don't just walk off a job pnwmom Jun 2016 #128

You do if the workplace is abusive, or unhealthy. closeupready Jun 2016 #130

Not if you're a responsible adult. You at the very least tender your resignation, pnwmom Jun 2016 #132

Nope. Methinks you protest too much. You weren't there; I wasn't there. closeupready Jun 2016 #133

1SBM WAS there and he clearly thinks his father did the right thing pnwmom Jun 2016 #141

See my reply to him above, and with that, I wish you a good evening. closeupready Jun 2016 #147

It's called adult. You do things even if they are horrible and awful. alphafemale Jun 2016 #191

It's adult to go back to your abuser and explain why you left? closeupready Jul 2016 #225

Absolutely. You inform them you are quitting. astral Jul 2016 #246

My parents are both "You broke it, you fix it," almost to the extreme. hunter Jun 2016 #164

I might die before 40, but I'll be able to say I was never anyone's slave FixTheProblem Jul 2016 #257

Yes, really. You're just wrong. Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #27

OH, for fuck's sake. Such drama. The kid was an intern in a job with a dress code. Such Squinch Jun 2016 #29

And the kid did what, exactly? Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #34

I'd have booted them too. Mostly for stupidity (making demands in a situation in which Squinch Jun 2016 #38

Me too -- I have never had interns do anything this ridiculous obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #118

How about just saying "No, that's not the way we do things here, now get back to smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #168

They DID do that obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #175

You can tell who read the article.. and who didn't.. n/t X_Digger Jun 2016 #208

They did that. It wasn't good enough for the kid. So the kid took work time and Squinch Jun 2016 #209

Then you'd be a bad manager, wasting company time on trivial shit. hunter Jun 2016 #170

I'd see it as saving myself and others from having to waste company time on trivial shit. Squinch Jun 2016 #210

They asked and were told no. Then they created a petition. tammywammy Jun 2016 #42

So? You've always taken no for an answer? Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #48

Firing seems justified tammywammy Jun 2016 #85

Quite frankly anything is a firing offense the first 90 days. Anything! yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #51

Interns have even less protection Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2016 #68

No, the intern purposefully organized a group to put pressure on management pnwmom Jun 2016 #131

As a business owner... Abq_Sarah Jun 2016 #201

The one who started the petition did go to his/her manager and ask for a revision. The person Squinch Jun 2016 #211

The First Amendment only applies to the government. To some degree, to most union memberships. Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #55

I'm not saying it's a 1st amendment issue Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #79

There is a difference between questioning authority and just being a brat... Drahthaardogs Jun 2016 #206

THIS!!!!!!! Squinch Jun 2016 #214

A private company is not bound by the First Amendment PJMcK Jun 2016 #78

See my response Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #81

lolz obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #115

Seriously, I can't even believe this is DU! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #167

I'm really glad to hear this Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #179

Really, what is going on when DU sides with the "Man"? smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #193

Well said Iris Jul 2016 #238

Free clue: the constitution and bill of rights doesn't apply to your employer*. X_Digger Jun 2016 #207

Yes. Iris Jun 2016 #217

No sympathy here, sorry. closeupready Jun 2016 #15

After you made a money-saving proposal, you might have tried it splat Jun 2016 #19

And, even then ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #25

I'm going to stick up for the intern here Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #21

I would feel sorry too, except she said she had already asked her manager about it Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #28

That's where I disagree Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #41

Bingo. Iris Jun 2016 #219

As someone who hires at least one intern per summer, and usually two, I disagree. tonyt53 Jun 2016 #31

I can easily imagine Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #44

The entire intern scheme is a scam for wealthier people to put their own kids ahead. hunter Jun 2016 #36

Not true Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #45

In Germany apprentices are paid as full time workers... hunter Jun 2016 #49

Agree 100% (nt) Proud Public Servant Jun 2016 #77

same here in Sweden. I had a very well paying intern position AntiBank Jun 2016 #119

Here in the US, a state-registered apprentice is paid while they work. tonyt53 Jun 2016 #152

We pay our interns between 16-18 dollars an hour etherealtruth Jun 2016 #158

Engineering industry here tammywammy Jun 2016 #165

Civil and environmental engineering, for me etherealtruth Jun 2016 #172

It's everything that's not civil or environmental. Heh tammywammy Jun 2016 #182

I am strictly on the environmental side ... etherealtruth Jun 2016 #187

My company pays interns $18 an hour. They earn a living wage. nt hack89 Jun 2016 #102

Are the shoe requirements reasonable? hunter Jun 2016 #140

We require business casual in the office hack89 Jun 2016 #144

Which is entirely reasonable. n/t Aerows Jul 2016 #264

My internship paid $25 an hour... belcffub Jun 2016 #169

Who are you people? hunter Jun 2016 #174

Hi I'm chris belcffub Jun 2016 #180

I'm in a situation like this. christx30 Jun 2016 #148

+1000 Agreed smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #171

Ask a Manager is one of my favorite blogs! tammywammy Jun 2016 #32

I can't believe unpaid labor (or poorly paid labor) is given a dress code fasttense Jun 2016 #35

Not all interns are unpaid labor. tammywammy Jun 2016 #39

Rediculus, if they do the same job they should be paid the same. N/T fasttense Jun 2016 #111

They don't do the same job. tammywammy Jun 2016 #143

They don't do the same job as regular hires. They are baby employees given an opportunity to learn Hekate Jun 2016 #162

In What World Would An Intern Know Enough. . . ProfessorGAC Jul 2016 #241

Go look up the US DOL requirements for unpaid internships R.A. Ganoush Jun 2016 #50

So, low pay and militaristic working conditions are what America is all about? N/T fasttense Jun 2016 #112

Hopefuly the strawman helped you come up with that one, because R.A. Ganoush Jun 2016 #146

Only in some states are these so called protections for interns in place fasttense Jul 2016 #240

They're in place in all 50 states R.A. Ganoush Jul 2016 #242

My company pays interns $18 an hour. hack89 Jun 2016 #103

Why in the world shouldn't interns have a dress code? Orrex Jun 2016 #105

You are snowflake enabler. B2G Jun 2016 #107

Oh for crying out loud. NuclearDem Jun 2016 #117

I feel like I have stumbled on to the wrong board. smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #173

+1,000 n/t LarryNM Jun 2016 #181

This intern learned a valuable lesson. NaturalHigh Jun 2016 #37

I learned a lot from being fired. Throd Jun 2016 #53

Years ago, I met a naturalized American woman, a postwar German ex-pat. closeupready Jun 2016 #86

So did I PJMcK Jun 2016 #176

I should confess too astral Jul 2016 #247

The manager wanted to fire that intern anyway taught_me_patience Jun 2016 #52

How did you reach that conclusion? PJMcK Jul 2016 #256

My experience is that you don't ask managers for approval of something like that, most are going to Hoyt Jun 2016 #63

This is part of the reason for H1Bs alc Jun 2016 #64

I've heard that applied to other industries as well. EllieBC Jun 2016 #71

Isn't it funny - interns from South Asia dress to the nines, even for free, and closeupready Jun 2016 #87

I find the same to be true with my college students. In general, though not always of course, tblue37 Jun 2016 #110

This must have been the intern's first job. What a privileged life to be that old .... Hekate Jun 2016 #69

It was her first job. She says that in her letter. EllieBC Jun 2016 #72

Yeah, I read the whole thing at the link after my post. Jeez. I worked 20 hrs/week.... Hekate Jun 2016 #99

They knew the terms of engagement when they accepted. B2G Jun 2016 #74

somehow I suspect there is more to this story, though a workplace petition is bush-league nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #75

very strict dress code SoLeftIAmRight Jun 2016 #84

lol closeupready Jun 2016 #88

+1,000 n/t LarryNM Jun 2016 #177

I really like your reply Jim Beard Jun 2016 #183

No shit! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #213

Dress for the job you want, not the job you have. cbdo2007 Jun 2016 #89

It really does matter SoLeftIAmRight Jun 2016 #93

Right. It needn't be expensive to do so, either. Hekate Jun 2016 #104

Dress for success PJMcK Jul 2016 #253

It is ok to ask your manager, but when told no, then just drop it and move on to uppityperson Jun 2016 #101

Bosses usually don't like having their time wasted. AngryOldDem Jun 2016 #106

The bosses who respond to the letter make a number of excellent points. tblue37 Jun 2016 #116

I read Ask a Manager every day tammywammy Jun 2016 #157

Glad to read so many think He/She handled it wrong. I thought with so many anti-corporate types here Hoyt Jun 2016 #121

I have interns, and if they did this, they would be fired, too obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #123

I've always had a simple work philosophy: I'll push the envelope until the envelope pushes back. brooklynite Jun 2016 #125

In this case, the envelope came with a pink slip enclosed. SwankyXomb Jun 2016 #151

No, the envelope pushed back and the Interns decided to push it again. brooklynite Jun 2016 #166

It was an ill-considered move on the part of the inters, but the comments here DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2016 #127

We have had generally good results with interns etherealtruth Jun 2016 #161

No one is suggesting that young people don't compare favorably to older people. Squinch Jun 2016 #216

Apologies--I hadn't realized you were the spokesperson for those who penned the responses I read. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2016 #222

I never said I was. But please, do show me one post that suggests young people do not compare Squinch Jul 2016 #244

"I may only be an intern but by gosh and by golly, you're doing it WRONG and things WILL change!" cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #138

My niece has had 12 jobs... meaculpa2011 Jun 2016 #139

Lol. When I was hired out of graduate school I was warned to nottry to change anything for 2 years aikoaiko Jun 2016 #178

That is really, really sound advice obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #188

'Trouble makers' elleng Jun 2016 #184

I agree with you 100% Jim Beard Jun 2016 #196

"special snowflakes" derp Warren DeMontague Jun 2016 #185

Good Post, Thanks! Jim Beard Jun 2016 #197

Yep. It's the truth. Warren DeMontague Jun 2016 #199

10 years ago there was a BBC documentary about the history of video games... Odin2005 Jun 2016 #204

Exactly. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #237

Yep, that was my guess, too. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #203

I would replace the intern with someone truly motivated to work at the company Haveadream Jun 2016 #186

They are lucky to find out early they wouldn't want to work for that company anyway. Jim Beard Jun 2016 #195

Remember when women were expected to dress feminine and sexy in the office? dilby Jun 2016 #198

Wow, nice ageist slur against young people. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #202

The lack of critical thinking on this thread is mind-boggling. Iris Jun 2016 #221

let us explore this SoLeftIAmRight Jul 2016 #224

Deutchland, Deutchland, Uber Alles! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #215

Really? You're going to go Godwin on this? On THIS? smh. Squinch Jun 2016 #218

I don't know whether to laugh my ass off or be terrified. I honestly don't. hunter Jul 2016 #227

You're comparing an internship at a private company with being a Nazi soldier? (n/t) PJMcK Jul 2016 #258

Yep. On DU, we actually are told that an office dress code is the same as Nazism. Disgusting. Squinch Jul 2016 #260

They were fired because their group gathering was way too much like a union The Second Stone Jul 2016 #228

Message to Millennials. RandySF Jul 2016 #232

A petition at work, by interns??? romanic Jul 2016 #236

Special snowflakes got their first taste of corporate culture. GOLGO 13 Jul 2016 #239

My "superiors" at work used to make fun or me for wearing sneakers with my suit from Ilsa Jul 2016 #243

I used to do that, shoes for office, shoes for running about. Not in NYC, but similar circumstances. hunter Jul 2016 #249

This message was self-deleted by its author LanternWaste Jul 2016 #248

judging by the responses in this thread ibegurpard Jul 2016 #250

Dress codes are the fundamental foundation of society Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #251

People like myself don't matter much to anyone, it seems... FixTheProblem Jul 2016 #255

The "special snowflakes" are the East Coast three-piece finance people who make their livings Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #254

This country (and captalism) are in a rude awakening FixTheProblem Jul 2016 #259

An office dress code is not "being treated like horse shit." Brattines is not "demanding respect." Squinch Jul 2016 #261

When you go to work Aerows Jul 2016 #263