General Discussion

Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)

19. There are lots of sociological reasons why women make less on average

Mon Jun 11, 2012, 04:32 PM

Jun 2012

The problem I have with articles like the one in the OP is they assume that ALL of the income disparity is due to illegal discrimination which is simply complete bullshit and not within a cab ride of reality.

The simple fact is that on average women in our society take on a greater responsibility when it comes to family issues than men do. Jeff listed several sociological conditions that contribute to income disparity. There are many more. It may surprise you to know that when you compare women to men where both groups have never been married or had kids, women actually make more than men.

None of this means there isn't illegal discrimination going on, which is still a significant problem. But posting statistics like "women make 77% less than men" only serves the cause of those who seek to mislead.

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49 Years After Kennedy Signed The Equal Pay Act, Women Still Earn 77 Cents To A Man’s Dollar [View all] SunsetDreams Jun 2012 OP

Well, that's because they want it that way..... Darth_Kitten Jun 2012 #1

Plus, a large percentage of 'em have babies and lose work hours. BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2012 #21

Seriously? A woman's part time employer should pay her more because she does more household work? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #27

I known women who have applied for various "tech" jobs xmas74 Jun 2012 #33

Women do not "opt" for lesser jobs treestar Jun 2012 #68

What is it about plumbing, welding and garbage collection that precludes women? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #70

so, you support pay inequity? noiretextatique Jun 2012 #78

A female welder should absolutely earn the same hourly wage as an equally accomplished male welder. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #79

yes, that's what the OP is about noiretextatique Jul 2012 #157

I have no children, I'm an Accountant noiretextatique Jun 2012 #77

Romney would work to get that to women earning 50 cents or less to a man’s dollar. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #2

Exactly how stupid does a woman have to be to vote for a Republican? Walk away Jun 2012 #3

The "Stay at home dad" is not yet a paradigm in this country. MADem Jun 2012 #4

Injustice. Amazing that on a LIBERAL board, so few join the cause. BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2012 #5

I noticed that at least one has replied in this thread. xmas74 Jun 2012 #34

that's not what I usually say hfojvt Jun 2012 #42

You could always try proving him wrong. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #54

just curious but Skittles Jun 2012 #110

Indeed not. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #127

that one is a LIVE one too! Skittles Jun 2012 #108

I've noticed that from many of his posts. xmas74 Jun 2012 #133

Some people prefer cluelessness. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #142

.... rational_democrat Jun 2012 #6

let's be fair about this spooky3 Jun 2012 #8

yep - and: dana_b Jun 2012 #9

Let's take some women I know. Igel Jun 2012 #10

agreed that the headline is misleading for the reason you gave. spooky3 Jun 2012 #24

the fact that women have a bachelor's degree doesn't tell you much. what's the degree in? HiPointDem Jun 2012 #91

Young metropolitan women are better educated and make more money than their male peers? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #16

read the entire article spooky3 Jun 2012 #22

What about singled, divorced and widowed women? They are usually the ONLY breadwinners. spooky3 Jun 2012 #7

Sorry, but I HATE this bull shit, manufactured story joeglow3 Jun 2012 #11

Again, HOURS TO HOURS women get paid less given all RELAVENT JOB FACTORS. Now if you want to uponit7771 Jun 2012 #57

the 77% statistic doesn't compare hours to hours. it compares full-time workers to full-time HiPointDem Jun 2012 #88

Since discrimination is illegal, where is the disparity coming from? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #12

Thanks for posting that. jp11 Jun 2012 #13

you don't get it Skittles Jun 2012 #14

they get it. they don't want to acknowledge it. n/t Scout Jun 2012 #15

CORRECT Skittles Jun 2012 #20

The anecdotes aren't supported by the data. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #17

LOLOL Skittles Jun 2012 #18

I found that funny too. xmas74 Jun 2012 #35

check this out Skittles Jun 2012 #83

Why am I not surprised? xmas74 Jun 2012 #84

QUIZ FOR YOU Skittles Jun 2012 #115

if you experienced discrimination, why wouldn't you file suit? why would you care about people HiPointDem Jun 2012 #116

see #35 Skittles Jun 2012 #134

right, attorneys never take discriminations cases. you want other people to help highly paid HiPointDem Jun 2012 #137

LOL Skittles Jun 2012 #140

how does posting a half-dozen "lols" with eye-rolling avatars make you tired? it's not exactly HiPointDem Jun 2012 #145

I work 50 hour weeks (AT NIGHT) Skittles Jun 2012 #146

i'm not trying to keep you. all you post is "lol" anyway. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #150

I guess B), from personal experience. xmas74 Jun 2012 #132

A hoot? chervilant Jun 2012 #62

read Prof. Francine Blau's and other experts' MULTIVARIATE research on pay issues spooky3 Jun 2012 #23

What was the bottom line? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #26

Looks like they studied the issue as it was 20-30 years ago Major Nikon Jun 2012 #30

here's one of doctor blau's papers (2000). she looks at various countries & their ratio of male to HiPointDem Jun 2012 #106

here ya go Skittles Jun 2012 #82

$12,000 per year less n/t Scout Jun 2012 #86

that's an article from msnbc. other people post research articles and you ignore them. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #92

LOLOL Skittles Jun 2012 #99

yes, & i trust the media to report research accurately like i trust the mafia. seen them HiPointDem Jun 2012 #103

6% - OH DEAR, IS THAT ALL??? Skittles Jun 2012 #104

gosh you're annoying. as my criticism of all these posts that blare "TWENTY-THREE PERCENT WAGE HiPointDem Jun 2012 #105

aw poor BABY !!!! Skittles Jun 2012 #107

that attitude will win you lots of supporters & voters among low-wage women, i'm sure. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #109

There are lots of sociological reasons why women make less on average Major Nikon Jun 2012 #19

Well said. MightyOkie Jun 2012 #28

I've seen some studies which suggest it's even lower Major Nikon Jun 2012 #29

I've been looking around, trying to find where they get the 77% figure SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #31

That's it. It just comes from the census data Major Nikon Jun 2012 #32

You have it exactly right. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #61

that's exactly what it is. they just compared the median wage of all male v. female workers HiPointDem Jun 2012 #96

There's a residual error value of 5-10% 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #47

Here's what the CONSAD study said on that topic Major Nikon Jun 2012 #73

So you're saying MOST of the pay disparity is voluntary? If not then what you've said makes little.. uponit7771 Jun 2012 #38

So you're saying everyone who authors comprehensive studies on gender pay shouldn't bother? Major Nikon Jun 2012 #39

If it is voluntary 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #48

According to AAUW, 80% of the pay gap is a consequence of choices. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #49

which there seem to be a lot of in this thread. you'd think it was 1950, some of the rhetoric is HiPointDem Jun 2012 #93

if that was your experience, why didn't you file a lawsuit? illegal since 1963. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #89

+++ THIS IS RIGHT WING BULLSHIT!!! WOMEN WITH SAME AMOUNT OF TIME ON JOB STILL PAID LESS +++ uponit7771 Jun 2012 #37

Luv the all caps Major Nikon Jun 2012 #41

Thx, gotta make sure to holler louder for the truth than conservative do for lies uponit7771 Jun 2012 #50

awwwwww poor BABY!!!!!!!!!!! Skittles Jun 2012 #98

Is this like a form of tourettes? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #131

The study author from the first link is a liar. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #46

Then you're making their point and your link is STILLY LYING, there's gap... no matter what... uponit7771 Jun 2012 #51

My opinion also happens to be consistent with the facts. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #58

A wage gap is not proof of discrimination 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #67

The tough part is quantifying "all relevant factors" lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #71

And I think those things you mention 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #81

no one said there wasn't a gap. they said the gap is not 23%. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #94

Also, the study was work hours to work hours...you can NOT discard that as a control!! uponit7771 Jun 2012 #52

There may be a gap. It might be as much as one-fifth of that claimed by the op. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #59

LOL Skittles Jun 2012 #100

Sure. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #128

it was not work hours to work hours. it was "full-time" to "full-time". full-time can be anything HiPointDem Jun 2012 #95

Old propaganda that doesn't fly. Women in the same jobs, with the same experience, still earn less. DirkGently Jun 2012 #90

:sigh: I'll never forget the horselaugh my Grandmother let out when she heard the news. TygrBright Jun 2012 #25

Which begs the question... Cerridwen Jun 2012 #36

Great point... Time to get rid of this outdated business model... Time to midnight Jun 2012 #43

it punishes men's work too. non-union framers here start at around $8-$10. and union jobs are HiPointDem Jun 2012 #114

not this again. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #40

I've read that women in general are less aggressive in pushing for raises 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #45

This is false, hours to hours women still get paid less. Also, women HAVING to "push" for the same.. uponit7771 Jun 2012 #56

Negotiation isn't discrimination. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #60

A) if you going by that study you posted above 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #66

because when they do they are called SHRILL BITCHES Skittles Jun 2012 #101

so what? seriously, men are called names too when they are pushy, but it doesn't seem to stop them. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #117

So women prefer to avoid social stigma 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #119

you're not understanding the systemic effects of sexism Skittles Jun 2012 #135

The problem with these kinds of theories 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #138

do some REAL LIFE RESEARCH Skittles Jun 2012 #141

I'm a woman & I've worked for 40 years. You post smiley-faces and LOLs and "poor baby" at me. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #151

Anecdotes don't actually prove much 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #153

"People think stuff like this is going to win Obama the women's vote. I doubt it." lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #53

awwwwwwwwww poor BABIES!!! Skittles Jun 2012 #102

another bs post, hours to hours women get paid LESS PERIOD end of story. You can fudge how MUCH uponit7771 Jun 2012 #55

the number simply compares all male full-time workers to all female full-time workers, with no HiPointDem Jun 2012 #87

Just one more in the list of disgraceful things about this country. libtodeath Jun 2012 #44

Well... chervilant Jun 2012 #63

Just FYI, those who deny sexism in pay rates: chervilant Jun 2012 #64

No matter how times change, the rhetoric doesn't lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #65

that sounds like a repuke Skittles Jun 2012 #97

So sad... chervilant Jun 2012 #124

I'm not complimenting the use of a 320 year old poem in defense of the factual basis of the OP. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #126

Now, see, chervilant Jun 2012 #144

Thanks for clarifying. All this time, I thought that facts mattered. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #149

She sent me notice that I'm on her ignore list too 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #154

Statistics may be more valuable 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #120

I've hired many people over the years. Aggressiveness really does play a role. Xithras Jun 2012 #69

Why would a woman be less inclined to ask though treestar Jun 2012 #72

there is a lot of research to support that women La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #74

I said I wouldn't speculate, but I think the second may have a bit to do with it. Xithras Jun 2012 #75

good point about the risk taking behavior. La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #76

"Acting aggressive" in this context is less offputting to the boss than to peers lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #80

It is all in what a person feels their value is treestar Jun 2012 #123

How would you propose to rectify the pay imbalance which results? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #130

I'm arguing about the usual "women choose" this or that inferior situation treestar Jun 2012 #143

right noiretextatique Jul 2012 #158

I must have slept through the "Negotiating Salaries for Men" class 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #121

The Paycheck Fairness Act would have helped with this Major Nikon Jun 2012 #85

Women negotiate for different things Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2012 #112

Reading through the replies, the focus is not fully in the root causes. Amimnoch Jun 2012 #111

To illustrate my point: Amimnoch Jun 2012 #113

hmm... chervilant Jun 2012 #125

Well we all know the only differnce between men and women is the plumbing Major Nikon Jun 2012 #118

obviously there is more to it than that Skittles Jun 2012 #139

What do you think is the cause behind the massive disparity 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #122

Yes. Yes, we know... Dear god, WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?!?!?!?!?!?! redqueen Jun 2012 #147

I asked the question not to divert the discussion here but rather 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #152

It ain't socialization. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #129

CORRECT Skittles Jun 2012 #136

Brogressives. redqueen Jun 2012 #148

bingo...it's cultural noiretextatique Jul 2012 #156

Too bad for me Puzzledtraveller Jun 2012 #155