General Discussion

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)

48. Ok, but the poster I was replying to didn't make a point about the system.

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:23 PM

Jul 2016

They said this particular incident was racist violence, but gave no indication what led them to believe that.

Are you saying we should start with the premise that all police killings of persons of color are racially motivated, and then work our way backwards from there and eventually (maybe) exonerate the police officer from those accusations, but only if there is absolutely no evidence that the officer was racially motivated? Otherwise they're a bigot by default?

If so, should we likewise start with the premise that all police killings of white people are not only not racially motivated, but are justified?

There is NOONE on DU saying this was a justified killing. But you (and many DUers) seem to be having trouble separating (as always occurs with these stories) an unjustified police killing from a racially motivated police killing, and seem to assume that an unjustified killing of a person of color is ALWAYS racially motivated (regardless of whether there is any evidence, such as the perpetrator's background/work history, to support that assertion). And that is why we are painted as "not caring about facts."

You can have a stupid cop perform an entirely unjustified killing, on any individual of any race, for no other reason than it was a stupid cop; in fact, it happens hundreds of times a year.

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This Shocking New York Daily News Cover of Alton Sterling Is Drawing Heavy Responses [View all] DonViejo Jul 2016 OP

Let people see what racist violence looks like. auntpurl Jul 2016 #1

I haven't seen any evidence that the cops involved had a racist history? MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #10

lol. Good one! JNelson6563 Jul 2016 #12

Seriously, we don't even know the name of the cops yet? How did you figure out they're racist? MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #20

see above photo eShirl Jul 2016 #22

Both cops have been ID 'd . One has been involved in another death Person 2713 Jul 2016 #30

Yes. These days thats all it takes. 7962 Jul 2016 #50

The other half were Latinos AllTooEasy Jul 2016 #67

Don't know much about racism, huh? 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #89

Yeah Entheory Jul 2016 #109

That IS how racism/white supremacy works. 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #111

Like Ice Cube said... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #240

Enough to know it exists among ALL races. 7962 Jul 2016 #206

I suspect you are right, for the wrong reason ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #210

No, not "agents of racism". Actual RACISTS. 7962 Jul 2016 #248

He was bigoted against white people ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #249

Yes, keep segregating us by using excuses of "academics". GREAT idea. 7962 Jul 2016 #250

Why do I try to educate people that claim to be progressives; but, will brook no progress ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #253

You're welcome to your opinions, of course. 7962 Jul 2016 #254

The academics are not my opinion. 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #255

Its sad that you find that funny. When we all should feel the same way. 7962 Jul 2016 #257

Is being a racist worse than being a bigot? ... The academics would argue, "No" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #258

Here's the difference: I got in a cop's face recently. And actually drove to find them adigal Jul 2016 #244

Are you serious? MynameisBlarney Jul 2016 #28

It's a legitimate question. Cops kill a lot of people; more than 1000 last year in the US... MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #40

Cops killed 1000 last year and half the victims were white? Lottie5 Jul 2016 #45

Latinos are the largest minority at 17% cagefreesoylentgreen Jul 2016 #171

You didn't realize how very disproportionate it is to kill blacks almost 50% of the time? bettyellen Jul 2016 #46

Ok, but the poster I was replying to didn't make a point about the system. MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #48

We should acknowledge the greater likelihood that this man is a victim of racist attitudes that make bettyellen Jul 2016 #49

"...a stupid cop perform an entirely unjustified killing, on any individual of any race" - -You are jtuck004 Jul 2016 #60

I'm not minimizing, I'm asking: What is the "clear and compelling evidence"... MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #64

You are minimizing it - it is racially offensive and dishonest to not acknowledge that we live jtuck004 Jul 2016 #68

In which post did I deny that we live in a racist country? MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #70

"You are minimizing it - it is racially offensive and dishonest to not acknowledge that we clarice Jul 2016 #125

By throwing out deceptive stats that betray the posters ignorance..... bettyellen Jul 2016 #135

With all respect.. which deceptives stats did the poster state?.... clarice Jul 2016 #139

They unthinkingly said that only less than half the time it's a Black person the cop shoots.... bettyellen Jul 2016 #153

Thanks Betty... are there hard stats that reflect those statistics?nt clarice Jul 2016 #155

Obama gave a nice little summary today... But there have been studies for years about LEO targeting bettyellen Jul 2016 #161

I would love to see hard statistics. nt clarice Jul 2016 #175

But not love it enough to do the research or even listen to Obama? Sounds like you don't care. bettyellen Jul 2016 #179

I care very DEEPLY.... but unfortunately... our feelings often lead us into the... clarice Jul 2016 #181

Then google it yourself and stop being so darned uninformed. bettyellen Jul 2016 #182

I'm sorry that you feel that way. But you still haven't given me any hard statistics. Only feelings. clarice Jul 2016 #184

If you actually wanted stats- you'd find them. Enough of your games. Enjoy the ignorant state.... bettyellen Jul 2016 #186

I'll say it one more time..... I came here looking for unvarnished facts, devoid of media spin.. clarice Jul 2016 #190

Here is a good place to start etherealtruth Jul 2016 #169

Washington Post? nuff said. nt clarice Jul 2016 #178

it was a very clear and SIMPLE presentation .... etherealtruth Jul 2016 #200

Yayyys.. thank you SOOO much Miss Etthreel. nt clarice Jul 2016 #202

Here is more information showing PoC are disproportionately targeted (and killed) ... etherealtruth Jul 2016 #203

Waiting. nt clarice Jul 2016 #147

Why the smart-ass remarks? You've been provided with several links. You're making yourself look bad. brush Jul 2016 #226

I am reasonably sure everyone recognizes the disparity ... etherealtruth Jul 2016 #204

There wasn't any deception whatsoever cheapdate Jul 2016 #216

Too much sitting back. Objectively, too fucking many black people are being murdered. jtuck004 Jul 2016 #174

As I previously posted... perhaps this isn't the time for rational debate. Be well my friend. nt clarice Jul 2016 #187

+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2016 #151

Are the shooting you reference a sum total, thus lacking the relevant information of victim's action LanternWaste Jul 2016 #84

How many mrsv Jul 2016 #39

Vanilla Ice should have been...just sayin. nt clarice Jul 2016 #97

I shouldn't have... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #241

How many white guys did he shoot, let alone shoot SIX times...of course is was racist. Come on! downeastdaniel Jul 2016 #54

Think about it. Jazzgirl Jul 2016 #55

I wasn't aware that the only unique thing about Alton Sterling as a person was his skin hue? nt MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #66

Who is saying that? Link? Thankyou. uppityperson Jul 2016 #76

"Shot for selling CD's? Seriously? Prove that it wasn't racist." nt MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #88

Nope. Doesn't show your claim that "the only unique thing about Alton Sterling as a person was his uppityperson Jul 2016 #108

You will never win this. pangaia Jul 2016 #197

Thats a nice way to put it. And you're right 7962 Jul 2016 #207

Thanks. pangaia Jul 2016 #209

Racism is fear in it's origin. subject Jul 2016 #234

I think ignorance or 'the unknown,' perhaps comes before the fear. pangaia Jul 2016 #239

It's cute how you argue against points no one is making. LanternWaste Jul 2016 #85

lolz obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #71

History ... Both, past and current. 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #86

What the ever loving fuck? You think it's just a coinkydink giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #105

And you are 100% positive that it is NOT his kin? I wish I could do that trick. nt clarice Jul 2016 #127

Yes, I fucking am. giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #189

Wow !!!!! that was GREAT !!! I LOVE these sort of irrational retorts.......... clarice Jul 2016 #191

And in addition..... Sister.... If you want to take the gloves off...all you have to do is DU mail clarice Jul 2016 #192

Lol, you're not worth the time. giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #224

uh-huh....that's what I thought. nt clarice Jul 2016 #227

What would I want with an over privileged white person giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #232

You are certainly hung up on race. May I suggest that you read the writings of Dr. King? clarice Jul 2016 #235

Lol, don't refer to me as sister first of all. giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #236

And as always..... your the one who played the race card first...typical of clarice Jul 2016 #237

Lol, by bringing up the fact that black men are disproportionately giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #238

Happened to 500 whites last year too. And hundreds of latinos. Cops suck. nt MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #132

inconvenient truth uhnope Jul 2016 #170

Nobody is saying it doesn't happen to other people too. giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #188

No, but what they are loudly saying is that when it happens to persons of color, IT'S ALWAYS RACIAL. MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #214

Apparently a black person can no longer be a racist. At all. Anywhere. 7962 Jul 2016 #252

Even here, there is denial adigal Jul 2016 #246

We don't know their particular history but we know the history of white cops killing black men Maraya1969 Jul 2016 #215

You're, once again, automatically correlating UNJUSTIFIED KILLING with RACIALLY MOTIVATED KILLING. MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #221

Because of history Lunabell Jul 2016 #218

They didn't have to be overtly racist. Chemisse Jul 2016 #219

"but they don't relate to the black man." - How does that explain multiple officers of color... MadDAsHell Jul 2016 #222

Good question. I would suggest their alliance to the 'blue' is more important to them. Chemisse Jul 2016 #231

You have white cops standing next to a lynching they performed. msanthrope Jul 2016 #220

I agree still_one Jul 2016 #126

And I think they should post the image on electronic billboards 47of74 Jul 2016 #129

PS. You should probably put a graphic image warning in the title auntpurl Jul 2016 #2

+1 KMOD Jul 2016 #6

Graphic. But necessary. calimary Jul 2016 #38

We don't often see white bodies on newspaper covers. Brickbat Jul 2016 #3

Good point. LuvNewcastle Jul 2016 #69

Exactly right. Brickbat Jul 2016 #92

I really doubt that's why it ran... fullautohotdog Jul 2016 #119

Okay then. LuvNewcastle Jul 2016 #123

^this^ yuiyoshida Jul 2016 #201

Their questions about a newspaper taking things too far are misplaced Laughing Mirror Jul 2016 #4

+1 sarae Jul 2016 #29

Or "why don't other newspapers take it far enough?" lostnfound Jul 2016 #41

The cops took it too far malaise Jul 2016 #5

Nah, let folk see what this kind of scary cop shit does to people uponit7771 Jul 2016 #7

Yes...and I would like to get rid of cops all together.... clarice Jul 2016 #199

Well done, Daily News. It's time that the general public LEARNS what their militarized, Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #8

yeah, if this doesn't wake people up, what will? Fast Walker 52 Jul 2016 #27

It won't wake many up... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #242

I think it's time people see exactly what is happening here mcar Jul 2016 #9

Malaise, Surya, Mcar and others beat me to it. Sometimes the ugly brutal truth must be shown.nt stevenleser Jul 2016 #11

I at least hope some consideration was given to the Sterling family Blue_Tires Jul 2016 #101

I hear you, but sometimes the interest in justice outweighs the desires of anyone else including the stevenleser Jul 2016 #116

Cover got it right! They killed an unarmed man! nt LostOne4Ever Jul 2016 #13

Maybe this is what's necessary? TCJ70 Jul 2016 #14

Wow, even though the OP title said it was "shocking" reflection Jul 2016 #15

k and r..........nt Stuart G Jul 2016 #16

People need to see this. boston bean Jul 2016 #17

When they still point a gun at a dying man alcibiades_mystery Jul 2016 #18

Show it. This is an American story that happens every day. Show it. betsuni Jul 2016 #19

I support the NYDN showing the ugly reality of American life today. closeupready Jul 2016 #21

The 2 videos I saw did not show a gun in his hands IronLionZion Jul 2016 #23

They took a gun out of his pocket Nevernose Jul 2016 #36

The information we have so far is that the gun was IN HIS POCKET. calimary Jul 2016 #37

So heartbreaking. TexasMommaWithAHat Jul 2016 #24

Murder SHOULD be shocking! redwitch Jul 2016 #25

Totally the right thing Calculating Jul 2016 #26

At the end of World War II Germans were made to go see Nazi death camps. 47of74 Jul 2016 #32

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2016 #47

Exactly!! Great point. FighttheFuture Jul 2016 #137

+1 stage left Jul 2016 #229

And people started turning against the VietNam war... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #243

only when people SEE what is going on will they pay any attention to it.... NoMoreRepugs Jul 2016 #31

But people also only pay attention to what they SEE is going on. Igel Jul 2016 #106

My only problem with it is the victim's 15-year-old son will see that picture. tclambert Jul 2016 #33

Some get a thrill in killing PeoViejo Jul 2016 #34

HAS to be shown packman Jul 2016 #35

I know it's their job to shock people and sell newspapers Blue_Tires Jul 2016 #42

But Black Lives Matter are called "thugs" on DU for their inconvenient protesting. arcane1 Jul 2016 #43

Do you think the extortion in Toronto was thuggery? Hoppy Jul 2016 #51

The definition of thug is "A violent criminal" arcane1 Jul 2016 #52

Good God no. Bradical79 Jul 2016 #83

When the sit-in will only end when the victim agrees to the perpetrator's terms. Hoppy Jul 2016 #110

So sit-ins are just thugs extorting people now? -nt Bradical79 Jul 2016 #128

When you obtain something through force or threats, its extortion. Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #130

Ridiculous Bradical79 Jul 2016 #134

I suggest you re-read the extortion that took place in Toronto. Hoppy Jul 2016 #167

He didn't engage in sit-ins? Bradical79 Jul 2016 #172

Are filibusters extortion? (the talking kind) (nt) TacoD Jul 2016 #162

Fiibusters are a practice that was agreed upon by both parties. Hoppy Jul 2016 #166

Or, the Congressional sit-in... Bradical79 Jul 2016 #173

Valid point, there. ut I guess your point here doesn't matter because Congress hasn't passed Hoppy Jul 2016 #211

Good for them. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2016 #44

Good lord. Agschmid Jul 2016 #53

That is horrible for my eyes. And it's just a photo... Quantess Jul 2016 #56

Does anyone know about Alton's history? nt clarice Jul 2016 #57

It doesn't matter MFM008 Jul 2016 #73

What does it matter? nt uppityperson Jul 2016 #78

I like to get my facts straight....and you? nt clarice Jul 2016 #80

Prior record doesn't matter, still should not be shot multiple times like he was. nt uppityperson Jul 2016 #82

What facts? Bradical79 Jul 2016 #90

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #91

Honestly SBM...I'm a little disappointed. I've always enjoyed your intelligent rational posts.nt clarice Jul 2016 #94

History has shown that those "waiting for the victim's 'background' ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #99

And you automatically assumed that I was doing the same? nt clarice Jul 2016 #102

Believe it or not ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #107

It's all good my friend...these are terrible times. nt clarice Jul 2016 #117

I thought that there might be additional facts.....your snarkieness aside. As I.. clarice Jul 2016 #93

Since you think that was snarky Bradical79 Jul 2016 #113

Yes... that's all I wanted to know... sorry for the misunderstanding. nt clarice Jul 2016 #118

It's not a misunderstanding Bradical79 Jul 2016 #131

Because I abhor violence in every form......I am very loath to become judge , jury, and .... clarice Jul 2016 #143

Do you know what jurisprudence is? Bradical79 Jul 2016 #156

I did not say that it was justified... please control your emotions. nt clarice Jul 2016 #157

Do you know what jurisprudence is? Bradical79 Jul 2016 #168

Wow ... +1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #225

Waiting. nt clarice Jul 2016 #148

Those are good questions about him, would help us learn more about him uppityperson Jul 2016 #114

I think that you nailed it. nt clarice Jul 2016 #122

Thought I'd put this ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2016 #223

No matter how many black men the cops kill awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #245

Horrible....does anyone know for a fact whether he did or did not have a gun? clarice Jul 2016 #58

Believe it or not... druidity33 Jul 2016 #138

I hear you... but if I call in a burglery at my home.... clarice Jul 2016 #141

Sorry.... I don't have the stomach to watch the video....was Mr. Sterling resisting arrest? nt clarice Jul 2016 #59

They tased him and then wrestled him to the ground, the store clerk said he didn't know what was uponit7771 Jul 2016 #62

Did he have a gun? clarice Jul 2016 #63

yes, they only got it after he was killed.. he didn't have it in his hands uponit7771 Jul 2016 #65

I also heard that he had a long police record. Any truth to that? As you.... clarice Jul 2016 #72

Why does that matter? They had no idea who he was before murdering him! ecstatic Jul 2016 #74

Relax.....I wasn't IMPLYING anything.... in fact.. I resent your tone.. I was only.... clarice Jul 2016 #75

Whatever. I made a general statement, did not call you out ecstatic Jul 2016 #77

Yes...you did... you IMPLIED that by my asking a question about the victim's background, clarice Jul 2016 #79

I resent your tone. Kingofalldems Jul 2016 #96

I resent your quick alert button finger. nt clarice Jul 2016 #98

Regarding why he had a gun, and about his sex offender issue, a bit and a link uppityperson Jul 2016 #81

This story just becomes sadder and more tragic. Hortensis Jul 2016 #87

Thank you... that's what I was looking for. nt clarice Jul 2016 #95

Ah, you were seeking prior criminal history. Gotcha. I'd like to know more about him as a person uppityperson Jul 2016 #115

I wonder why this matters in this instance. boston bean Jul 2016 #100

As I mentioned.... just looking for the facts. nt clarice Jul 2016 #103

Even if it is a fact, why would it matter? boston bean Jul 2016 #104

When trying to formulate a rational opinion..... I've learned to collect all of the facts. nt clarice Jul 2016 #120

They had no idea at the time. So, IMHO it is completely irrelevant to the circumstances. boston bean Jul 2016 #121

And these are the facts that I am trying to assimilate. Thanks BB. nt clarice Jul 2016 #124

No, you haven't Bradical79 Jul 2016 #140

I can only wish that I was as clairvoyant as you are. nt clarice Jul 2016 #142

Clairvoiance? It's your claims vs. your actions Bradical79 Jul 2016 #144

To a simple mind perhaps. I tried to be nice... but you refused. nt clarice Jul 2016 #145

You did no such thing Bradical79 Jul 2016 #163

I can see that this is no time for a clear headed discussion... emotions are running too high... clarice Jul 2016 #177

No thanks Bradical79 Jul 2016 #194

Well....it's a shame.. you have to live in that head....glad I don't. Peace and love. nt clarice Jul 2016 #195

And in addition... I will leave you with this quote.... clarice Jul 2016 #180

Felons can own guns in Louisiana Nevernose Jul 2016 #149

Yes... that would have been a good start. nt clarice Jul 2016 #152

But up thread you said you want to see the facts... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #247

Something like that... you're pretty sharp. nt clarice Jul 2016 #259

And you manage awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #260

ummmmm ok. nt clarice Jul 2016 #261

yeah the 'good' americans heaven05 Jul 2016 #61

They need to rub this in their faces MFM008 Jul 2016 #112

I will post what I posted in another magazine forum on this same photo below benld74 Jul 2016 #133

And whom would you replace them with? nt clarice Jul 2016 #146

People who are not afraid to do their job. Better cops who can deal with people without the continua uppityperson Jul 2016 #183

Perhaps it is an issue of increasing their salary to attract better candidates? nt clarice Jul 2016 #185

I thought of going into law enforcement but realized I'd burn out due to the culture uppityperson Jul 2016 #193

I do know one thing... I could NEVER do that job. nt clarice Jul 2016 #196

If you can say... liberalmuse Jul 2016 #136

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Jul 2016 #160

I do not see a weapon anywhere near him CanonRay Jul 2016 #150

I believe it was in his pocket. nt clarice Jul 2016 #158

As Jackie said of her bloodied pink suit: "Let them see what they've done." WinkyDink Jul 2016 #154

Wow... THERE'S a stretch. nt clarice Jul 2016 #159

I don't think so. BTW: I hope you know that every h.s. kid in the US is shown the ACTUAL ASSASSINA- WinkyDink Jul 2016 #164

Do you think that the police killed JFK ? nt clarice Jul 2016 #176

I don't believe that for a second. MirrorAshes Jul 2016 #228

It's sad, but shocking headlines may wake SOME people up. raven mad Jul 2016 #165

What I do not understand is why did the police shoot him 3-4 times in the riversedge Jul 2016 #198

This is supposed to upset people.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2016 #205

Graphic photo, but people need to see what happens when cops overstep their authority. Beacool Jul 2016 #208

It is what it is angrychair Jul 2016 #212

One big reason the public turned against the Vietnam War . . . OldRedneck Jul 2016 #213

I don't think they took it too far... ut oh Jul 2016 #217

No words Faux pas Jul 2016 #230

I would hardly describe the News as "left-leaning". KamaAina Jul 2016 #233

Every newspaper in America should have printed this photo or one like it. LonePirate Jul 2016 #251

The truth on these racist murders committed by cops is shocking. marble falls Jul 2016 #256