General Discussion

bhikkhu

(10,789 posts)

153. There are many different ways to count that

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 12:27 PM

Jul 2016

I know back before the recession I had lost a good job with a 401k, and took a less-good job. Between the two I had to cash in my 401k and stretch it out for awhile to make ends meet, often only $15 or so a month between my paycheck and fixed expenses. Any unplanned things came out of the extra from the 401k, and with two young kids there were many unplanned things.

But, I was able to keep my bills up and even do some credit repair, and keep my house. Through 6 years of scraping by, I built about $40k in equity in my house. I count that as retirement savings, though the article does not.

I also spent some time getting more serious and better trained in my field, and switched to a much better job when the economy came back. Things are better now, and I do plan to be able to retire with some decent options at a normal point, ten years or so from now.

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The typical American couple has only $5,000 saved for retirement [View all] RKP5637 Jul 2016 OP

35+ years of failed conservative economics 4dsc Jul 2016 #1

But the numbers are all over the place yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #18

Fuck. I ain't even got that. Hoppy Jul 2016 #34

I think this represents the great majority .. ananda Jul 2016 #42

It obviously includes all ages, and population Hortensis Jul 2016 #55

the article says "the median aged working couple...." mike_c Jul 2016 #130

Where did someone say 140k? Rex Jul 2016 #71

I've never before seen/heard any number anywhere near $140,000. snot Jul 2016 #143

Links? Wednesdays Jul 2016 #152

I've raided mine multiple time, where does the 10% penalty go? Demonaut Jul 2016 #2

Good question! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #4

To the US treasury Yupster Jul 2016 #76

Thanks! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #77

To fund Benghazi hearings. puffy socks Jul 2016 #135

I actually like my 401K, but... Adrahil Jul 2016 #3

I'm sure that's true, but... Orrex Jul 2016 #8

I hear ya.... Adrahil Jul 2016 #13

Yeah, that's about the size of it. Orrex Jul 2016 #35

That is the problem. Some really cannot afford it. However, if someone saved 100/month in an IRA or still_one Jul 2016 #25

I completely agree. +1. NT Adrahil Jul 2016 #28

Some people can't to be sure, but Yupster Jul 2016 #78

How can you tell someone to save when they cannot meet daily expenses? Drahthaardogs Jul 2016 #107

Long before 401-K 1939 Jul 2016 #117

I took full advantage of 401(k)'s when available � snot Jul 2016 #144

I am very sorry what happened to you, and as I mentioned, there are people who cannot still_one Jul 2016 #146

Agreed, thx. snot Jul 2016 #159

I see that as well GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #145

We have a consumer driven society and most waste too much money taught_me_patience Jul 2016 #5

Yeah, blame the people. seabeckind Jul 2016 #7

There are plenty of families where both parents work LoverOfLiberty Jul 2016 #46

Can't argue with that logic. seabeckind Jul 2016 #51

I know plenty of "victims" LoverOfLiberty Jul 2016 #57

Oh, I'm sure you do. seabeckind Jul 2016 #58

You've insinuated I've not told the truth LoverOfLiberty Jul 2016 #94

I did nothing of the sort. seabeckind Jul 2016 #96

+1 (nt) LongtimeAZDem Jul 2016 #64

we are not allowed to talk about those people here Skittles Jul 2016 #137

Many times the victim needs to be blamed taught_me_patience Jul 2016 #114

To some extent, but then if everybody did the same... bhikkhu Jul 2016 #155

That is the case for some people, even many,but we are a society in which many of the members think Squinch Jul 2016 #115

I think that too often people make judgments about other people seabeckind Jul 2016 #122

And there is nothing in your post that disagrees with anything I have said. Squinch Jul 2016 #125

I wasn't disagreeing with you. seabeckind Jul 2016 #127

No. The situation that I described for the segment of our society I was describing is not complex. Squinch Jul 2016 #131

Couldn't Agree More shopgirl Jul 2016 #138

By the time you factor in all the costs that go into preparing meals at home, it's probably... ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #72

Time, yes. But the other costs SheilaT Jul 2016 #92

Although I don't recommend them for every meal forthemiddle Jul 2016 #102

Cost of water? Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #104

What is the purpose of this: ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #108

I dont think water is a significant cost when cooking. Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #119

I can cook enough for 2 to 5 meals in 30 minutes or less mythology Jul 2016 #141

As a working Mom with 2 teenage sons RazBerryBeret Jul 2016 #79

Amen. tavernier Jul 2016 #142

We need a third line showing population growth over that time period. SheilaT Jul 2016 #91

We save a ton. MissB Jul 2016 #110

That's not really a good example as BARS are included. SomethingFishy Jul 2016 #118

The 401k idea was pure thievery in a couple ways. seabeckind Jul 2016 #6

It was a shyster move, but yet many tout it as great. It's a feeding tray right into wall street. RKP5637 Jul 2016 #9

You realize that wall street makes more on pension fees right? taught_me_patience Jul 2016 #12

My gosh, that changes everything! seabeckind Jul 2016 #15

A lot of people do NOT relaize that. Adrahil Jul 2016 #17

The pension fees are borne by the pension funds seabeckind Jul 2016 #20

Where do you think that money comes from? NT Adrahil Jul 2016 #31

I just told you. seabeckind Jul 2016 #47

Right, so the worker pays indirectly.... Adrahil Jul 2016 #50

The worker pays ------- ZERO. seabeckind Jul 2016 #54

Depends on the job SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2016 #66

Very true. I worked for one company that did that. seabeckind Jul 2016 #73

Not all "traditional", meaning back in the day, SheilaT Jul 2016 #99

I included a link below to a piece about the history of retirement seabeckind Jul 2016 #109

Right, even in the golden age the pension rate was under 50%. SheilaT Jul 2016 #140

Even if it doesn't show up on your stub... Adrahil Jul 2016 #134

Just talk to those with United Airlines when the defaulted on their pension plan still_one Jul 2016 #30

When I left the government 12 years ago.... Adrahil Jul 2016 #36

Yep, that's often what happens, the company goes belly up or raids the funds. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #40

Sounds like an excellent opportunity for bankruptcy! seabeckind Jul 2016 #56

Yep! It's a business plan for some companies! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #63

Twinkies-Maker Hostess Plans A $2.3 Billion Stock Offering seabeckind Jul 2016 #74

The previous CEO/henchmen drove the company into the ground. Outmoded RKP5637 Jul 2016 #75

Hedge fund harvest seabeckind Jul 2016 #80

I can't recall all of the details now, but one of the CEOs and his henchmen had a history RKP5637 Jul 2016 #90

I think Bain was knee deep in these harvests. seabeckind Jul 2016 #95

Thank you, yes, exactly!!! And what really irks me, they try to make everything sound like it's RKP5637 Jul 2016 #98

Also, many 401Ks today allow for self-directed 401Ks, where the participant chooses the fund, ETF, still_one Jul 2016 #26

Mine isn't quite that flexible... Adrahil Jul 2016 #38

Good. I hope the fees are low still_one Jul 2016 #86

These will become less available Yupster Jul 2016 #81

I hear you, but it also allows workers to say "screw you" and walk away from the employer. Hoyt Jul 2016 #22

And then what? seabeckind Jul 2016 #23

money enid602 Jul 2016 #67

You have failed to explain why LoverOfLiberty Jul 2016 #49

I think another problem is people who do contribute, but Yupster Jul 2016 #82

People don't understand how it adds up over time taught_me_patience Jul 2016 #126

And next month there will be a MW article with the sadz about how we don't spend enough. Brickbat Jul 2016 #10

Yep! That's the F'en game in the US. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #11

Ain't it great? The poor working bastard gets to hear how fucking stupid he Nay Jul 2016 #24

I disagree with this. I don't think there will ever be a cultural change that makes our culture Squinch Jul 2016 #158

Yeah, but so what? Squinch Jul 2016 #156

yep living paycheck to paycheck produces no savings dembotoz Jul 2016 #14

And there are millions and millions in the US in the same situation, yet their voices go RKP5637 Jul 2016 #16

And the investment guy on the radio says I need $1M Ilsa Jul 2016 #19

He needs you to invest $1M seabeckind Jul 2016 #21

You need to change investment guys Yupster Jul 2016 #83

Do away with the guy and buy a target fund taught_me_patience Jul 2016 #124

It's rough. Money flies out the window quickly when the paycheck stops. My dad, years RKP5637 Jul 2016 #29

Two words edhopper Jul 2016 #27

Exactly!!! And the prices keep going up and up. Just the grocery bills for two are getting RKP5637 Jul 2016 #33

Yes edhopper Jul 2016 #45

There may be big markups on individual items SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2016 #68

Yep, here's an interesting article on that. RKP5637 Jul 2016 #70

For me it comes down to this: do I put my "extra" money toward my kids' education or Still In Wisconsin Jul 2016 #32

And "if" jobs are even available. Job pickings get pretty slim for retirees. Probably RKP5637 Jul 2016 #37

Perhaps. The advantage of putting a little money away in a tax deferred savings vehicle, is that still_one Jul 2016 #59

So they won't be retiring. LS_Editor Jul 2016 #39

Austerity by design. The .01% don't believe humans contribute to humanity when they're comfortable. ancianita Jul 2016 #41

Yep, it's not by chance this is happening, it's the design of the system, and IMO it's RKP5637 Jul 2016 #43

The Wokes' hesitancy to fight comes from being weakened by soothing messages to WAIT. ancianita Jul 2016 #48

Exactly!!! "for a future that they imagine but which never comes." n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #61

My thought on this is many live in denial. Retirement is a long way off and cost of RKP5637 Jul 2016 #44

Which points out one problem. Igel Jul 2016 #52

"Many" doesn't explain most LoverOfLiberty Jul 2016 #53

The earlier people start to save whether for retirement or their child's education, the more options still_one Jul 2016 #62

We set up a college fund for our kid the month he was born Yupster Jul 2016 #84

Agreed. 529's have issues also, but it sounds to me that you did good, but so much effort and time still_one Jul 2016 #85

This calls for a picture, words cannot do it justice. seabeckind Jul 2016 #60

+10000 brilliant graphic AntiBank Jul 2016 #121

It's been several years, but I read an article that stated CrispyQ Jul 2016 #65

Yep, same with many of us. My job today in IT today would be in some other country. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #69

Another thing related is the war on savings edhopper Jul 2016 #87

Yep, my local bank pays about .01% interest. And FFS, they try to make this sound like a great RKP5637 Jul 2016 #93

The low interest rates are a trap Yupster Jul 2016 #106

The fed interest rate is not for consumers. seabeckind Jul 2016 #128

Thanks for bringing this up. senseandsensibility Jul 2016 #147

there are strong unions still in the media edhopper Jul 2016 #150

Portability and 4.6yr avg term of employment One_Life_To_Give Jul 2016 #88

Piqued my interest so I googled retirement info seabeckind Jul 2016 #89

It seems that a lot of people dumbcat Jul 2016 #97

For most it's children versus a 401K. roamer65 Jul 2016 #100

Yep! Exactly! Many can't save no matter how much they want too. But still they are RKP5637 Jul 2016 #101

Yes, but they have assault rifles. HassleCat Jul 2016 #103

Yeah! Very likely! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #105

The 401k makes a commercial airline pilot of everyone Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2016 #111

Yep, it's far more complicated than many understand. And most lay people trade RKP5637 Jul 2016 #112

You can just choose the target date fund taught_me_patience Jul 2016 #113

I did that for three years. Lost a ton of money. Went to a combination of unmanaged Squinch Jul 2016 #116

I tend to believe these numbers. roamer65 Jul 2016 #120

But, but, look what they could save on taxes. seabeckind Jul 2016 #123

Low income people should choose the Roth 401 k option Yupster Jul 2016 #157

Exactly what's going on. And then TPTB try to make people feel quilty. The US is a warped RKP5637 Jul 2016 #132

Yup, we are fucked. AngryAmish Jul 2016 #129

Newly Retired.... heresAthingdotcom Jul 2016 #133

K&R !!! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #136

Do you feel like you have too much money in one company's stock? Yupster Jul 2016 #139

Thanks for sharing and for all you're doing! Rhiannon12866 Jul 2016 #148

What were the particulars about this "retooling"? seabeckind Jul 2016 #151

Someone has THAT much? n/t raven mad Jul 2016 #149

There are many different ways to count that bhikkhu Jul 2016 #153

Yep, definitely, there are many ways to count it and lots of variables. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2016 #154