General Discussion

chervilant

(8,267 posts)

62. A hoot?

Tue Jun 12, 2012, 11:05 AM

Jun 2012

He's just articulating what many men believe in their efforts to avoid the cognitive dissonance commensurate with acknowledging that the vast majority of men support a sexist socio-cultural construct called patriarchy.

Being male anywhere on this planet is a huge advantage.

The power imbalance inherent in the social construct we've labeled 'patriarchy' is damaging to our entire species. How can we expect a 'dominant' gender to respect a 'submissive' gender, when 'power over' is glorified? We women are considered less than because we have a 'v' instead of a 'p'! How absurd!

Some great resources for any who wish to change this oppressive socio-cultural reality:

The Mermaid and the Minotaur: Sexual Arrangements and Human Malaise by Dorothy Dinnerstein.

Beyond Power: On Women, Men and Morals by Marilyn French.

The War Against Women by Marilyn French.

(BTW, I know I've posted this before. However, I've noticed that more of the misogynists on DU have been working hard to deny their sexism...)

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49 Years After Kennedy Signed The Equal Pay Act, Women Still Earn 77 Cents To A Man’s Dollar [View all] SunsetDreams Jun 2012 OP

Well, that's because they want it that way..... Darth_Kitten Jun 2012 #1

Plus, a large percentage of 'em have babies and lose work hours. BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2012 #21

Seriously? A woman's part time employer should pay her more because she does more household work? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #27

I known women who have applied for various "tech" jobs xmas74 Jun 2012 #33

Women do not "opt" for lesser jobs treestar Jun 2012 #68

What is it about plumbing, welding and garbage collection that precludes women? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #70

so, you support pay inequity? noiretextatique Jun 2012 #78

A female welder should absolutely earn the same hourly wage as an equally accomplished male welder. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #79

yes, that's what the OP is about noiretextatique Jul 2012 #157

I have no children, I'm an Accountant noiretextatique Jun 2012 #77

Romney would work to get that to women earning 50 cents or less to a man’s dollar. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #2

Exactly how stupid does a woman have to be to vote for a Republican? Walk away Jun 2012 #3

The "Stay at home dad" is not yet a paradigm in this country. MADem Jun 2012 #4

Injustice. Amazing that on a LIBERAL board, so few join the cause. BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2012 #5

I noticed that at least one has replied in this thread. xmas74 Jun 2012 #34

that's not what I usually say hfojvt Jun 2012 #42

You could always try proving him wrong. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #54

just curious but Skittles Jun 2012 #110

Indeed not. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #127

that one is a LIVE one too! Skittles Jun 2012 #108

I've noticed that from many of his posts. xmas74 Jun 2012 #133

Some people prefer cluelessness. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #142

.... rational_democrat Jun 2012 #6

let's be fair about this spooky3 Jun 2012 #8

yep - and: dana_b Jun 2012 #9

Let's take some women I know. Igel Jun 2012 #10

agreed that the headline is misleading for the reason you gave. spooky3 Jun 2012 #24

the fact that women have a bachelor's degree doesn't tell you much. what's the degree in? HiPointDem Jun 2012 #91

Young metropolitan women are better educated and make more money than their male peers? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #16

read the entire article spooky3 Jun 2012 #22

What about singled, divorced and widowed women? They are usually the ONLY breadwinners. spooky3 Jun 2012 #7

Sorry, but I HATE this bull shit, manufactured story joeglow3 Jun 2012 #11

Again, HOURS TO HOURS women get paid less given all RELAVENT JOB FACTORS. Now if you want to uponit7771 Jun 2012 #57

the 77% statistic doesn't compare hours to hours. it compares full-time workers to full-time HiPointDem Jun 2012 #88

Since discrimination is illegal, where is the disparity coming from? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #12

Thanks for posting that. jp11 Jun 2012 #13

you don't get it Skittles Jun 2012 #14

they get it. they don't want to acknowledge it. n/t Scout Jun 2012 #15

CORRECT Skittles Jun 2012 #20

The anecdotes aren't supported by the data. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #17

LOLOL Skittles Jun 2012 #18

I found that funny too. xmas74 Jun 2012 #35

check this out Skittles Jun 2012 #83

Why am I not surprised? xmas74 Jun 2012 #84

QUIZ FOR YOU Skittles Jun 2012 #115

if you experienced discrimination, why wouldn't you file suit? why would you care about people HiPointDem Jun 2012 #116

see #35 Skittles Jun 2012 #134

right, attorneys never take discriminations cases. you want other people to help highly paid HiPointDem Jun 2012 #137

LOL Skittles Jun 2012 #140

how does posting a half-dozen "lols" with eye-rolling avatars make you tired? it's not exactly HiPointDem Jun 2012 #145

I work 50 hour weeks (AT NIGHT) Skittles Jun 2012 #146

i'm not trying to keep you. all you post is "lol" anyway. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #150

I guess B), from personal experience. xmas74 Jun 2012 #132

A hoot? chervilant Jun 2012 #62

read Prof. Francine Blau's and other experts' MULTIVARIATE research on pay issues spooky3 Jun 2012 #23

What was the bottom line? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #26

Looks like they studied the issue as it was 20-30 years ago Major Nikon Jun 2012 #30

here's one of doctor blau's papers (2000). she looks at various countries & their ratio of male to HiPointDem Jun 2012 #106

here ya go Skittles Jun 2012 #82

$12,000 per year less n/t Scout Jun 2012 #86

that's an article from msnbc. other people post research articles and you ignore them. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #92

LOLOL Skittles Jun 2012 #99

yes, & i trust the media to report research accurately like i trust the mafia. seen them HiPointDem Jun 2012 #103

6% - OH DEAR, IS THAT ALL??? Skittles Jun 2012 #104

gosh you're annoying. as my criticism of all these posts that blare "TWENTY-THREE PERCENT WAGE HiPointDem Jun 2012 #105

aw poor BABY !!!! Skittles Jun 2012 #107

that attitude will win you lots of supporters & voters among low-wage women, i'm sure. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #109

There are lots of sociological reasons why women make less on average Major Nikon Jun 2012 #19

Well said. MightyOkie Jun 2012 #28

I've seen some studies which suggest it's even lower Major Nikon Jun 2012 #29

I've been looking around, trying to find where they get the 77% figure SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #31

That's it. It just comes from the census data Major Nikon Jun 2012 #32

You have it exactly right. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #61

that's exactly what it is. they just compared the median wage of all male v. female workers HiPointDem Jun 2012 #96

There's a residual error value of 5-10% 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #47

Here's what the CONSAD study said on that topic Major Nikon Jun 2012 #73

So you're saying MOST of the pay disparity is voluntary? If not then what you've said makes little.. uponit7771 Jun 2012 #38

So you're saying everyone who authors comprehensive studies on gender pay shouldn't bother? Major Nikon Jun 2012 #39

If it is voluntary 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #48

According to AAUW, 80% of the pay gap is a consequence of choices. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #49

which there seem to be a lot of in this thread. you'd think it was 1950, some of the rhetoric is HiPointDem Jun 2012 #93

if that was your experience, why didn't you file a lawsuit? illegal since 1963. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #89

+++ THIS IS RIGHT WING BULLSHIT!!! WOMEN WITH SAME AMOUNT OF TIME ON JOB STILL PAID LESS +++ uponit7771 Jun 2012 #37

Luv the all caps Major Nikon Jun 2012 #41

Thx, gotta make sure to holler louder for the truth than conservative do for lies uponit7771 Jun 2012 #50

awwwwww poor BABY!!!!!!!!!!! Skittles Jun 2012 #98

Is this like a form of tourettes? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #131

The study author from the first link is a liar. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #46

Then you're making their point and your link is STILLY LYING, there's gap... no matter what... uponit7771 Jun 2012 #51

My opinion also happens to be consistent with the facts. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #58

A wage gap is not proof of discrimination 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #67

The tough part is quantifying "all relevant factors" lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #71

And I think those things you mention 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #81

no one said there wasn't a gap. they said the gap is not 23%. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #94

Also, the study was work hours to work hours...you can NOT discard that as a control!! uponit7771 Jun 2012 #52

There may be a gap. It might be as much as one-fifth of that claimed by the op. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #59

LOL Skittles Jun 2012 #100

Sure. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #128

it was not work hours to work hours. it was "full-time" to "full-time". full-time can be anything HiPointDem Jun 2012 #95

Old propaganda that doesn't fly. Women in the same jobs, with the same experience, still earn less. DirkGently Jun 2012 #90

:sigh: I'll never forget the horselaugh my Grandmother let out when she heard the news. TygrBright Jun 2012 #25

Which begs the question... Cerridwen Jun 2012 #36

Great point... Time to get rid of this outdated business model... Time to midnight Jun 2012 #43

it punishes men's work too. non-union framers here start at around $8-$10. and union jobs are HiPointDem Jun 2012 #114

not this again. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #40

I've read that women in general are less aggressive in pushing for raises 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #45

This is false, hours to hours women still get paid less. Also, women HAVING to "push" for the same.. uponit7771 Jun 2012 #56

Negotiation isn't discrimination. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #60

A) if you going by that study you posted above 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #66

because when they do they are called SHRILL BITCHES Skittles Jun 2012 #101

so what? seriously, men are called names too when they are pushy, but it doesn't seem to stop them. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #117

So women prefer to avoid social stigma 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #119

you're not understanding the systemic effects of sexism Skittles Jun 2012 #135

The problem with these kinds of theories 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #138

do some REAL LIFE RESEARCH Skittles Jun 2012 #141

I'm a woman & I've worked for 40 years. You post smiley-faces and LOLs and "poor baby" at me. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #151

Anecdotes don't actually prove much 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #153

"People think stuff like this is going to win Obama the women's vote. I doubt it." lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #53

awwwwwwwwww poor BABIES!!! Skittles Jun 2012 #102

another bs post, hours to hours women get paid LESS PERIOD end of story. You can fudge how MUCH uponit7771 Jun 2012 #55

the number simply compares all male full-time workers to all female full-time workers, with no HiPointDem Jun 2012 #87

Just one more in the list of disgraceful things about this country. libtodeath Jun 2012 #44

Well... chervilant Jun 2012 #63

Just FYI, those who deny sexism in pay rates: chervilant Jun 2012 #64

No matter how times change, the rhetoric doesn't lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #65

that sounds like a repuke Skittles Jun 2012 #97

So sad... chervilant Jun 2012 #124

I'm not complimenting the use of a 320 year old poem in defense of the factual basis of the OP. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #126

Now, see, chervilant Jun 2012 #144

Thanks for clarifying. All this time, I thought that facts mattered. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #149

She sent me notice that I'm on her ignore list too 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #154

Statistics may be more valuable 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #120

I've hired many people over the years. Aggressiveness really does play a role. Xithras Jun 2012 #69

Why would a woman be less inclined to ask though treestar Jun 2012 #72

there is a lot of research to support that women La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #74

I said I wouldn't speculate, but I think the second may have a bit to do with it. Xithras Jun 2012 #75

good point about the risk taking behavior. La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2012 #76

"Acting aggressive" in this context is less offputting to the boss than to peers lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #80

It is all in what a person feels their value is treestar Jun 2012 #123

How would you propose to rectify the pay imbalance which results? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #130

I'm arguing about the usual "women choose" this or that inferior situation treestar Jun 2012 #143

right noiretextatique Jul 2012 #158

I must have slept through the "Negotiating Salaries for Men" class 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #121

The Paycheck Fairness Act would have helped with this Major Nikon Jun 2012 #85

Women negotiate for different things Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2012 #112

Reading through the replies, the focus is not fully in the root causes. Amimnoch Jun 2012 #111

To illustrate my point: Amimnoch Jun 2012 #113

hmm... chervilant Jun 2012 #125

Well we all know the only differnce between men and women is the plumbing Major Nikon Jun 2012 #118

obviously there is more to it than that Skittles Jun 2012 #139

What do you think is the cause behind the massive disparity 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #122

Yes. Yes, we know... Dear god, WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?!?!?!?!?!?! redqueen Jun 2012 #147

I asked the question not to divert the discussion here but rather 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #152

It ain't socialization. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #129

CORRECT Skittles Jun 2012 #136

Brogressives. redqueen Jun 2012 #148

bingo...it's cultural noiretextatique Jul 2012 #156

Too bad for me Puzzledtraveller Jun 2012 #155