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Marr

(20,317 posts)

15. There are fundamental differences between them all, but Islam

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:51 AM

Jul 2016

has several features that make it particularly easy to use in justification of violence.

For example, both Christianity and Islam urge followers to spread the faith, but only Islam contains detailed explanations for exactly how that is to be done-- and it isn't with bake sales. It calls very flatly for murdering non-believers. Christianity has no guide when it comes to spreading the faith, which, while leaving it open to promoting horrific abuses on that score in the past, also left the faith open to being tamed and put into a sort of box. That bomber in Nice was, according to his holy book, quite justified.

Islam also calls for murdering those who leave the faith-- not a feature of any other Abrahamic religion, so far as I know.

People sometimes say that Islam is in a sort of pre-Enlightenment period, and that it will progress into a more modern, peaceful, even secular sort of state in time. But I think there's a very good reason that it hasn't had an Enlightenment period by 2016. They've been putting their Voltaires and Newtons on chopping blocks for a very long time.

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We need a response to terrorism that addresses the problem without demonizing an entire religion. [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 OP

K&R! stonecutter357 Jul 2016 #1

But its ok...... hawkeyeman Jul 2016 #2

But that's different Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #4

I don't think most of us here have a problem with responsible and law abiding gun owners. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #7

I don't think most of us have a problem with responsible and law-abiding Muslims. JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2016 #88

A person who owns a gun is a gun owner. pangaia Jul 2016 #167

Funny you never call out the many that do Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #159

I hardly ever post on that topic. It's not my bailiwick. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #160

Well you do not have to post on the topic Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #171

Thanks for the NRA/RW talking points, you gun-humping ammosexual COWARD. ** jmg257 Jul 2016 #10

Gun owners are the one group that is regularly Francis Booth Jul 2016 #64

+1000 hawkeyeman Jul 2016 #72

Don't forget believers.... ileus Jul 2016 #119

Except Muslims. On DU, peace-loving Muslims are all victims of American imperialism. Francis Booth Jul 2016 #165

The enemy of our enemy is our friend... ileus Jul 2016 #166

So your answer to this OP is be victim on gun owning? treestar Jul 2016 #73

That's exactly correct. You can't condemn all members of amy Francis Booth Jul 2016 #76

Yes it does apply to Muslims also. That was my point. Duh!!! Don't judge or ... hawkeyeman Jul 2016 #78

Of course! guns are mean...and kill people. ileus Jul 2016 #117

Oh bullshit. MH1 Jul 2016 #123

Crazy, right? I know when I hear a good penis insult, 1st thing I think of is having a jmg257 Jul 2016 #163

How are we not confronting terrorists? tman Jul 2016 #3

We seem to be doing a good job stopping organized attacks. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #5

We will never stop people who puffy socks Jul 2016 #33

Some religions are intolerant of the very existence Francis Booth Jul 2016 #71

It seems that some people, nearly all male, will throw their lives into the toilet Warpy Jul 2016 #80

ISIS is not a religious movement... meaculpa2011 Jul 2016 #6

They are a bunch of extreme right wingers Democat Jul 2016 #8

It is absolutely religious in nature. Marr Jul 2016 #9

No one who uses ANY BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #16

That sort of feel-good, fingers-in-the-ears nonsense is a huge problem, I'm sorry. Marr Jul 2016 #18

So what's the solution? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #22

I don't know. But if there is a solution, it will start with Marr Jul 2016 #37

Oh my ---- huge, sincere thanks for this! pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #183

"There is NO FIRM THEOLOGICAL GROUND WHATSOEVER FOR KILLING PEOPLE!" trotsky Jul 2016 #24

The Koran doesn't consider the killing of non-Muslims to be murder. Statistical Jul 2016 #35

The end state of Christianity is the end of the world treestar Jul 2016 #66

Yet many polls show a majority of Muslims supporting very repressive ideals. 7962 Jul 2016 #94

What polls? treestar Jul 2016 #134

You're truncating the quote in order to mislead peopel into thinking it's worse than it is. Chathamization Jul 2016 #176

Except the books are pretty clear. Corporate666 Jul 2016 #110

That is incorrect. puffy socks Jul 2016 #36

How many have cited purely religious reasons for their attacks? Marr Jul 2016 #39

I did not suggest that the victims deserved puffy socks Jul 2016 #41

... puffy socks Jul 2016 #45

And I could cite 20 explanations that are overtly religious in nature. Marr Jul 2016 #46

Then list them puffy socks Jul 2016 #47

Religious idealism and the desire to be part of something bigger than themselves Arazi Jul 2016 #74

And that is the propaganda puffy socks Jul 2016 #85

Ok so its religious propaganda. It's still religious Arazi Jul 2016 #87

The propaganda brings them in puffy socks Jul 2016 #89

Because some percentage remain believers in the religion Arazi Jul 2016 #90

Nope puffy socks Jul 2016 #91

It is all about religion - hence killing Yazidis, for instance. Read this: What ISIS Really Wants muriel_volestrangler Jul 2016 #116

Like blaming Cimate Change Cayenne Jul 2016 #56

Agreed. 840high Jul 2016 #58

Here is the 911 Report on OBL treestar Jul 2016 #68

Words of truth. To pretend otherwise is just silly Francis Booth Jul 2016 #75

So why is the use of that religion an effective tactic? Loki Liesmith Jul 2016 #53

We should not demonize PEOPLE, but condemn one religion, why not? Albertoo Jul 2016 #11

Don't all the Abrahamic religions believe they are the best? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #12

Nope. Not when you teach kids the 'other' will burn in hell Albertoo Jul 2016 #13

That's messed up. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #14

messed up ideologies foster future bad guys, IMHO Albertoo Jul 2016 #127

Humans don't need religion for that treestar Jul 2016 #140

I agree and disagree Albertoo Jul 2016 #142

They weren't horrible to themselves at the time treestar Jul 2016 #143

Again, agree/disagree Albertoo Jul 2016 #146

There are fundamental differences between them all, but Islam Marr Jul 2016 #15

And when somebody believes that killing infidels will be rewarded with 72 virgins in the afterlife, Nye Bevan Jul 2016 #17

.+1 840high Jul 2016 #59

Salmon Rushdie comes to mind. nt Francis Booth Jul 2016 #82

blasphemy laws help keep the religion from changing 6chars Jul 2016 #83

Is that really the position of Islam treestar Jul 2016 #144

I didn't say that's what they all *believe*. Marr Jul 2016 #170

Christianity does treestar Jul 2016 #173

You're making my point. Marr Jul 2016 #175

are they following it literally though? treestar Jul 2016 #190

It's not. People are using slectively truncated quotes from hate sites and pretending that they mean Chathamization Jul 2016 #177

Every religion is like that treestar Jul 2016 #29

working hard to stay violent and medieval might apply to Al Qaeda treestar Jul 2016 #70

Your angle is interesting, but IMHO you forget one crucial conendrum Albertoo Jul 2016 #128

This. People should not be demonized. Religion is mythology & ideology, and should be criticized. backscatter712 Jul 2016 #100

"Islam has proven to be misogynistic, homophobic, and anti-democratic" Albertoo Jul 2016 #129

...said no DUer ever, after an attack by a Christian. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #19

There was no sophistry, i.e intellectual trickery in my assertion. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #20

DU gives special treatment to some groups Democat Jul 2016 #21

Absolutely correct. 840high Jul 2016 #60

Hit that nail on the head, for sure nt 7962 Jul 2016 #95

Admittedly there do no seem to be attacks by Christians treestar Jul 2016 #27

Utter tosh whatthehey Jul 2016 #32

Had to do with their internal politics treestar Jul 2016 #50

Even the Hubble can't see as far as you moved those goalposts. whatthehey Jul 2016 #55

No you brought in other issues to cloud it treestar Jul 2016 #63

Oh for Pete's sake. You're gonna break a bone twisting that much 7962 Jul 2016 #97

All this insults and vague references to "polls" treestar Jul 2016 #138

No "desperate need", just living in the real world without blinders. 7962 Jul 2016 #153

Huh? Muslims don't attack people in India? Statistical Jul 2016 #38

Muslims are a minority in India treestar Jul 2016 #51

Yes/? bluedye33139 Jul 2016 #101

"Muslims in India don't get involved in this stuff?" Are you kidding me? Marr Jul 2016 #42

but that is not directed at the US treestar Jul 2016 #52

Really bdwker Jul 2016 #79

Um, those attacks are not by Indian Muslims, but promoted by Pakistan. synergie Jul 2016 #184

This message was self-deleted by its author BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #92

The "problem" is multifaceted..it begins with a religion that glorifies suicide True Earthling Jul 2016 #23

The religion itself doesn't treestar Jul 2016 #26

Your post sums up what's wrong with the left's response to this topic perfectly. Marr Jul 2016 #44

Yes I do know what I am taking about treestar Jul 2016 #49

There are a number of Muslim clerics who interpret the Quran as encouraging martyrdom by suicide True Earthling Jul 2016 #93

.that^ 840high Jul 2016 #61

And to find an effective way treestar Jul 2016 #25

+1! BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #121

It also might pay to set up a radio free rational info? Telling creationism is a myth. Albertoo Jul 2016 #133

Here's the thing if you're killing underthematrix Jul 2016 #28

One way to identify the wheat from the chafe Shankapotomus Jul 2016 #30

It's also stupid to ignore that so many terrorist attacks are coming from one religion FLPanhandle Jul 2016 #31

Well, we won't get one. WestCoastLib Jul 2016 #34

K&R ismnotwasm Jul 2016 #40

Well...that's gonna require higher order thinking skills.... lindysalsagal Jul 2016 #43

So let me hear you defend the religion's wide spread abuse and murder of LGBT, apostates Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #48

Different issue treestar Jul 2016 #54

The OP says the religion itself must be held blameless, so it's the exact same issue. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #62

No he says "demonizing" treestar Jul 2016 #65

Boy you must really want to not get it. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #67

Projection from you. treestar Jul 2016 #69

Homophobes are dastardly people. Murderous homophobes are doubly dastardly people. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #104

So you are comfortable with the many nations which execute LGBT? With the lashings Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #130

I never said that. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #132

Ah, finally you deign to respond. Now I will repeat my initial question to you, which Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #156

DSB's organizing principle DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #157

Extreme prejudice against LGBT remains both socially and legally acceptable in much of the Islamic still_one Jul 2016 #168

DSB's organizing principle DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #189

criticizing Islam as widely practiced does not necessarily ericson00 Jul 2016 #192

If you are looking for hompohobia you can find it in all three Abrahamic religions. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #193

I don't condone ideas expressed in the holy texts of Christianity and Judaism; ericson00 Jul 2016 #197

Now that's unfair treestar Jul 2016 #158

Non sequitur deflection cosmicone Jul 2016 #162

No, you are. wildeyed Jul 2016 #155

No it didn't. wildeyed Jul 2016 #154

Homosexual acts were legalized in much of the Middle East long before they were in much of the West Chathamization Jul 2016 #178

First step: It's not a religion. HassleCat Jul 2016 #57

In order to do that. deathrind Jul 2016 #77

Treat terrorism as a matter of law and order, Agnosticsherbet Jul 2016 #81

Nope. nt msanthrope Jul 2016 #84

A good place to start is Dretownblues Jul 2016 #86

people love to blame an entire group for the actions of individuals, when it suits their narrative. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #96

Or when its true 7962 Jul 2016 #98

Elaborate? Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #99

Just read their book. Read their laws. Read the laws of Islamic countries, 7962 Jul 2016 #105

I am not going to demonize all Muslims. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #107

Even most of the "moderates" support radical ideals. 7962 Jul 2016 #108

Where are you reading this? treestar Jul 2016 #191

So you're unaware of laws in some Muslim countries? Where being gay is punishable by death? 7962 Jul 2016 #195

Religion - all religion - needs to go away. stopbush Jul 2016 #102

Overthrowing a few more secular dictatorships should solve everything. nt killbotfactory Jul 2016 #103

My second grade teacher used to swat us all on the butt, even if only one misbehaved. DawgHouse Jul 2016 #106

That's the bottom line. BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #120

We should demonize every religion oberliner Jul 2016 #109

I would K&R this because BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #112

Thanks oberliner Jul 2016 #125

LOL - that's likely even less BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #126

Very true oberliner Jul 2016 #181

That makes them double down treestar Jul 2016 #135

I think we should approach them they same way we approach Republicanism or conservatism oberliner Jul 2016 #139

Uh, there is a large cancer of terror and violence in the heart of Islam brentspeak Jul 2016 #111

+10000 ericson00 Jul 2016 #113

It has been around nearly as long as Christianity in relative historic terms treestar Jul 2016 #137

In too many responses to this, BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #114

I want to defeat the bad guys without getting into a war with an entire religion. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #115

Absolutely. BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #118

The problem is Islam is as much a political system as a religion for most of its followers Lee-Lee Jul 2016 #122

The Bundy gang does not represent "right wingers" generally treestar Jul 2016 #141

Islam demonizes a lot of people... MellowDem Jul 2016 #124

Muslim bashing brings out the bigot in the most "progressive giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #131

You wore our uniform. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #136

Exactly, not to mention it's a small fraction of a huge swath giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #147

There are plenty of Muslims serving in our armed force. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #148

I know, but damned if they somehow don't get bashed simply giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #149

Because DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #150

Exactly, but even if they aren't claiming to do the attack giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #152

A lot of bigotry stems from ignorance and tribalism. Chathamization Jul 2016 #180

It's the willful ignorance BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #182

I agree. The desire to hate that overcomes the desire to learn. If somone finds out that one of the Chathamization Jul 2016 #198

It also exposes the phony gay rights supporters. Marr Jul 2016 #185

Wow, so weird. Somehow I manage to have a lesbian mother & mother in law giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #187

So what? Marr Jul 2016 #188

We need a response from prominent Muslim leaders cosmicone Jul 2016 #145

There have been quite a few in Bangladesh 6chars Jul 2016 #151

Muslim leaders can't be the solution. Islam (and other religions) IS the problem Albertoo Jul 2016 #161

I don't think a vast majority of 1.7 billion Muslims cosmicone Jul 2016 #164

Agree on principle, but it's now a problem of quantification: 100k or 500M? Albertoo Jul 2016 #169

Was there a poll with a sample size of half the Muslims? cosmicone Jul 2016 #174

Polls can only make small errors. 50% Muslims holding extreme views is a fact. Albertoo Jul 2016 #179

Yes. No. Maybe. LWolf Jul 2016 #172

Just call it what it is - fundamentalism is a bane on civilization. Rex Jul 2016 #186

I am a Jew and I am great friends with an number of Muslims Gothmog Jul 2016 #194

The US knows what it should do. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #196