General Discussion

BlueMTexpat

(15,697 posts)

16. No one who uses ANY

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:53 AM

Jul 2016

religion as a justification to kill innocent people is "on very firm theological ground."

Period.

Anyone who believes that either does not know what he is talking about or has a warped conception of theology.

The religions "of the Book," aka the three Abrahamic religions, have much more in common than not and all prefer peace over violence against inoocents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

Notably, the record for the killing of innocents over the centuries is still held by those who profess to be "Christian." There's that six+ million during WWII in the 20th-century alone, after all. And in the US, a lot fewer people have been killed by thugs who use Islam to justify their terror than by gun-toting RW evangelical fanatics.

There is NO FIRM THEOLOGICAL GROUND WHATSOEVER FOR KILLING PEOPLE!

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We need a response to terrorism that addresses the problem without demonizing an entire religion. [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 OP

K&R! stonecutter357 Jul 2016 #1

But its ok...... hawkeyeman Jul 2016 #2

But that's different Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #4

I don't think most of us here have a problem with responsible and law abiding gun owners. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #7

I don't think most of us have a problem with responsible and law-abiding Muslims. JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2016 #88

A person who owns a gun is a gun owner. pangaia Jul 2016 #167

Funny you never call out the many that do Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #159

I hardly ever post on that topic. It's not my bailiwick. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #160

Well you do not have to post on the topic Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #171

Thanks for the NRA/RW talking points, you gun-humping ammosexual COWARD. ** jmg257 Jul 2016 #10

Gun owners are the one group that is regularly Francis Booth Jul 2016 #64

+1000 hawkeyeman Jul 2016 #72

Don't forget believers.... ileus Jul 2016 #119

Except Muslims. On DU, peace-loving Muslims are all victims of American imperialism. Francis Booth Jul 2016 #165

The enemy of our enemy is our friend... ileus Jul 2016 #166

So your answer to this OP is be victim on gun owning? treestar Jul 2016 #73

That's exactly correct. You can't condemn all members of amy Francis Booth Jul 2016 #76

Yes it does apply to Muslims also. That was my point. Duh!!! Don't judge or ... hawkeyeman Jul 2016 #78

Of course! guns are mean...and kill people. ileus Jul 2016 #117

Oh bullshit. MH1 Jul 2016 #123

Crazy, right? I know when I hear a good penis insult, 1st thing I think of is having a jmg257 Jul 2016 #163

How are we not confronting terrorists? tman Jul 2016 #3

We seem to be doing a good job stopping organized attacks. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #5

We will never stop people who puffy socks Jul 2016 #33

Some religions are intolerant of the very existence Francis Booth Jul 2016 #71

It seems that some people, nearly all male, will throw their lives into the toilet Warpy Jul 2016 #80

ISIS is not a religious movement... meaculpa2011 Jul 2016 #6

They are a bunch of extreme right wingers Democat Jul 2016 #8

It is absolutely religious in nature. Marr Jul 2016 #9

No one who uses ANY BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #16

That sort of feel-good, fingers-in-the-ears nonsense is a huge problem, I'm sorry. Marr Jul 2016 #18

So what's the solution? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #22

I don't know. But if there is a solution, it will start with Marr Jul 2016 #37

Oh my ---- huge, sincere thanks for this! pablo_marmol Jul 2016 #183

"There is NO FIRM THEOLOGICAL GROUND WHATSOEVER FOR KILLING PEOPLE!" trotsky Jul 2016 #24

The Koran doesn't consider the killing of non-Muslims to be murder. Statistical Jul 2016 #35

The end state of Christianity is the end of the world treestar Jul 2016 #66

Yet many polls show a majority of Muslims supporting very repressive ideals. 7962 Jul 2016 #94

What polls? treestar Jul 2016 #134

You're truncating the quote in order to mislead peopel into thinking it's worse than it is. Chathamization Jul 2016 #176

Except the books are pretty clear. Corporate666 Jul 2016 #110

That is incorrect. puffy socks Jul 2016 #36

How many have cited purely religious reasons for their attacks? Marr Jul 2016 #39

I did not suggest that the victims deserved puffy socks Jul 2016 #41

... puffy socks Jul 2016 #45

And I could cite 20 explanations that are overtly religious in nature. Marr Jul 2016 #46

Then list them puffy socks Jul 2016 #47

Religious idealism and the desire to be part of something bigger than themselves Arazi Jul 2016 #74

And that is the propaganda puffy socks Jul 2016 #85

Ok so its religious propaganda. It's still religious Arazi Jul 2016 #87

The propaganda brings them in puffy socks Jul 2016 #89

Because some percentage remain believers in the religion Arazi Jul 2016 #90

Nope puffy socks Jul 2016 #91

It is all about religion - hence killing Yazidis, for instance. Read this: What ISIS Really Wants muriel_volestrangler Jul 2016 #116

Like blaming Cimate Change Cayenne Jul 2016 #56

Agreed. 840high Jul 2016 #58

Here is the 911 Report on OBL treestar Jul 2016 #68

Words of truth. To pretend otherwise is just silly Francis Booth Jul 2016 #75

So why is the use of that religion an effective tactic? Loki Liesmith Jul 2016 #53

We should not demonize PEOPLE, but condemn one religion, why not? Albertoo Jul 2016 #11

Don't all the Abrahamic religions believe they are the best? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #12

Nope. Not when you teach kids the 'other' will burn in hell Albertoo Jul 2016 #13

That's messed up. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #14

messed up ideologies foster future bad guys, IMHO Albertoo Jul 2016 #127

Humans don't need religion for that treestar Jul 2016 #140

I agree and disagree Albertoo Jul 2016 #142

They weren't horrible to themselves at the time treestar Jul 2016 #143

Again, agree/disagree Albertoo Jul 2016 #146

There are fundamental differences between them all, but Islam Marr Jul 2016 #15

And when somebody believes that killing infidels will be rewarded with 72 virgins in the afterlife, Nye Bevan Jul 2016 #17

.+1 840high Jul 2016 #59

Salmon Rushdie comes to mind. nt Francis Booth Jul 2016 #82

blasphemy laws help keep the religion from changing 6chars Jul 2016 #83

Is that really the position of Islam treestar Jul 2016 #144

I didn't say that's what they all *believe*. Marr Jul 2016 #170

Christianity does treestar Jul 2016 #173

You're making my point. Marr Jul 2016 #175

are they following it literally though? treestar Jul 2016 #190

It's not. People are using slectively truncated quotes from hate sites and pretending that they mean Chathamization Jul 2016 #177

Every religion is like that treestar Jul 2016 #29

working hard to stay violent and medieval might apply to Al Qaeda treestar Jul 2016 #70

Your angle is interesting, but IMHO you forget one crucial conendrum Albertoo Jul 2016 #128

This. People should not be demonized. Religion is mythology & ideology, and should be criticized. backscatter712 Jul 2016 #100

"Islam has proven to be misogynistic, homophobic, and anti-democratic" Albertoo Jul 2016 #129

...said no DUer ever, after an attack by a Christian. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #19

There was no sophistry, i.e intellectual trickery in my assertion. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #20

DU gives special treatment to some groups Democat Jul 2016 #21

Absolutely correct. 840high Jul 2016 #60

Hit that nail on the head, for sure nt 7962 Jul 2016 #95

Admittedly there do no seem to be attacks by Christians treestar Jul 2016 #27

Utter tosh whatthehey Jul 2016 #32

Had to do with their internal politics treestar Jul 2016 #50

Even the Hubble can't see as far as you moved those goalposts. whatthehey Jul 2016 #55

No you brought in other issues to cloud it treestar Jul 2016 #63

Oh for Pete's sake. You're gonna break a bone twisting that much 7962 Jul 2016 #97

All this insults and vague references to "polls" treestar Jul 2016 #138

No "desperate need", just living in the real world without blinders. 7962 Jul 2016 #153

Huh? Muslims don't attack people in India? Statistical Jul 2016 #38

Muslims are a minority in India treestar Jul 2016 #51

Yes/? bluedye33139 Jul 2016 #101

"Muslims in India don't get involved in this stuff?" Are you kidding me? Marr Jul 2016 #42

but that is not directed at the US treestar Jul 2016 #52

Really bdwker Jul 2016 #79

Um, those attacks are not by Indian Muslims, but promoted by Pakistan. synergie Jul 2016 #184

This message was self-deleted by its author BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #92

The "problem" is multifaceted..it begins with a religion that glorifies suicide True Earthling Jul 2016 #23

The religion itself doesn't treestar Jul 2016 #26

Your post sums up what's wrong with the left's response to this topic perfectly. Marr Jul 2016 #44

Yes I do know what I am taking about treestar Jul 2016 #49

There are a number of Muslim clerics who interpret the Quran as encouraging martyrdom by suicide True Earthling Jul 2016 #93

.that^ 840high Jul 2016 #61

And to find an effective way treestar Jul 2016 #25

+1! BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #121

It also might pay to set up a radio free rational info? Telling creationism is a myth. Albertoo Jul 2016 #133

Here's the thing if you're killing underthematrix Jul 2016 #28

One way to identify the wheat from the chafe Shankapotomus Jul 2016 #30

It's also stupid to ignore that so many terrorist attacks are coming from one religion FLPanhandle Jul 2016 #31

Well, we won't get one. WestCoastLib Jul 2016 #34

K&R ismnotwasm Jul 2016 #40

Well...that's gonna require higher order thinking skills.... lindysalsagal Jul 2016 #43

So let me hear you defend the religion's wide spread abuse and murder of LGBT, apostates Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #48

Different issue treestar Jul 2016 #54

The OP says the religion itself must be held blameless, so it's the exact same issue. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #62

No he says "demonizing" treestar Jul 2016 #65

Boy you must really want to not get it. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #67

Projection from you. treestar Jul 2016 #69

Homophobes are dastardly people. Murderous homophobes are doubly dastardly people. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #104

So you are comfortable with the many nations which execute LGBT? With the lashings Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #130

I never said that. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #132

Ah, finally you deign to respond. Now I will repeat my initial question to you, which Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #156

DSB's organizing principle DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #157

Extreme prejudice against LGBT remains both socially and legally acceptable in much of the Islamic still_one Jul 2016 #168

DSB's organizing principle DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #189

criticizing Islam as widely practiced does not necessarily ericson00 Jul 2016 #192

If you are looking for hompohobia you can find it in all three Abrahamic religions. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #193

I don't condone ideas expressed in the holy texts of Christianity and Judaism; ericson00 Jul 2016 #197

Now that's unfair treestar Jul 2016 #158

Non sequitur deflection cosmicone Jul 2016 #162

No, you are. wildeyed Jul 2016 #155

No it didn't. wildeyed Jul 2016 #154

Homosexual acts were legalized in much of the Middle East long before they were in much of the West Chathamization Jul 2016 #178

First step: It's not a religion. HassleCat Jul 2016 #57

In order to do that. deathrind Jul 2016 #77

Treat terrorism as a matter of law and order, Agnosticsherbet Jul 2016 #81

Nope. nt msanthrope Jul 2016 #84

A good place to start is Dretownblues Jul 2016 #86

people love to blame an entire group for the actions of individuals, when it suits their narrative. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #96

Or when its true 7962 Jul 2016 #98

Elaborate? Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #99

Just read their book. Read their laws. Read the laws of Islamic countries, 7962 Jul 2016 #105

I am not going to demonize all Muslims. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #107

Even most of the "moderates" support radical ideals. 7962 Jul 2016 #108

Where are you reading this? treestar Jul 2016 #191

So you're unaware of laws in some Muslim countries? Where being gay is punishable by death? 7962 Jul 2016 #195

Religion - all religion - needs to go away. stopbush Jul 2016 #102

Overthrowing a few more secular dictatorships should solve everything. nt killbotfactory Jul 2016 #103

My second grade teacher used to swat us all on the butt, even if only one misbehaved. DawgHouse Jul 2016 #106

That's the bottom line. BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #120

We should demonize every religion oberliner Jul 2016 #109

I would K&R this because BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #112

Thanks oberliner Jul 2016 #125

LOL - that's likely even less BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #126

Very true oberliner Jul 2016 #181

That makes them double down treestar Jul 2016 #135

I think we should approach them they same way we approach Republicanism or conservatism oberliner Jul 2016 #139

Uh, there is a large cancer of terror and violence in the heart of Islam brentspeak Jul 2016 #111

+10000 ericson00 Jul 2016 #113

It has been around nearly as long as Christianity in relative historic terms treestar Jul 2016 #137

In too many responses to this, BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #114

I want to defeat the bad guys without getting into a war with an entire religion. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #115

Absolutely. BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #118

The problem is Islam is as much a political system as a religion for most of its followers Lee-Lee Jul 2016 #122

The Bundy gang does not represent "right wingers" generally treestar Jul 2016 #141

Islam demonizes a lot of people... MellowDem Jul 2016 #124

Muslim bashing brings out the bigot in the most "progressive giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #131

You wore our uniform. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #136

Exactly, not to mention it's a small fraction of a huge swath giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #147

There are plenty of Muslims serving in our armed force. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #148

I know, but damned if they somehow don't get bashed simply giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #149

Because DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #150

Exactly, but even if they aren't claiming to do the attack giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #152

A lot of bigotry stems from ignorance and tribalism. Chathamization Jul 2016 #180

It's the willful ignorance BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #182

I agree. The desire to hate that overcomes the desire to learn. If somone finds out that one of the Chathamization Jul 2016 #198

It also exposes the phony gay rights supporters. Marr Jul 2016 #185

Wow, so weird. Somehow I manage to have a lesbian mother & mother in law giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #187

So what? Marr Jul 2016 #188

We need a response from prominent Muslim leaders cosmicone Jul 2016 #145

There have been quite a few in Bangladesh 6chars Jul 2016 #151

Muslim leaders can't be the solution. Islam (and other religions) IS the problem Albertoo Jul 2016 #161

I don't think a vast majority of 1.7 billion Muslims cosmicone Jul 2016 #164

Agree on principle, but it's now a problem of quantification: 100k or 500M? Albertoo Jul 2016 #169

Was there a poll with a sample size of half the Muslims? cosmicone Jul 2016 #174

Polls can only make small errors. 50% Muslims holding extreme views is a fact. Albertoo Jul 2016 #179

Yes. No. Maybe. LWolf Jul 2016 #172

Just call it what it is - fundamentalism is a bane on civilization. Rex Jul 2016 #186

I am a Jew and I am great friends with an number of Muslims Gothmog Jul 2016 #194

The US knows what it should do. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #196