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MH1

(19,267 posts)

35. I recced this BUT I think you mischaracterize some of the arguments

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 11:51 AM

Jul 2016

regarding the consequences of the Iraq invasion.

A consequence was that a whole lot of military or police trained (such as it was) youngish adult men were left unemployed by "debaathification" and also lots of military weaponry was left unsecured or they already had it in their possession. No work, no real security in the country, and these people with nothing but time on their hands, weapons, and anger. Sure a lot of what they are doing has nothing directly to do with anger at the US, but we put a lot of people out there ripe for the pickin' by the extremist groups, and ready for brainwashing.

So I don't think it's where the ISIS ideology came from at all - in that I agree with your OP - but I do think they gained a lot of recruits, and therefore power, from the consequences of the Iraq invasion.

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The excuse making for ISIS here is insane [View all] ButterflyBlood Jul 2016 OP

Did ISIS exist, even in an unorganized way, during the reign of Sadam Hussein? no_hypocrisy Jul 2016 #1

Irrelevant. You have no idea what the world would have been like if Hussein retained power. randome Jul 2016 #3

It's hardly irrelevant puffy socks Jul 2016 #31

What is relevant is the MONEY ISIS gets. Would this money still be forthcoming to terrorists KittyWampus Jul 2016 #98

Actually yes they did ButterflyBlood Jul 2016 #4

so you disagree with all of the democrats and Middle East experts who say that bush's disaster Doctor_J Jul 2016 #16

The poster did nothing wrong whatsoever... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2016 #36

The poster's OP was titled "The excuse making for ISIS here is insane" Doctor_J Jul 2016 #40

Yes but that's not what you responded to, is it. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2016 #48

That didn't seem to me to be the point of the OP. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2016 #5

I know my question is tangental at best, but I am curious about the current no_hypocrisy Jul 2016 #6

The core of Daesh are the same people who ran "Iraq" under Saddam. AngryAmish Jul 2016 #26

Irrelevant. Experts on islamism agree: the longer the tyrant, the worse the islamism later Albertoo Jul 2016 #27

If the US would have left Sadam alone he would have dealt with the radicals in his area. Rex Jul 2016 #59

A not very clever hypothetical. Answer this instead- Would the Saudi's & other ME states have KittyWampus Jul 2016 #97

insane indeed pintobean Jul 2016 #2

wow, you have it figured out...in three paragraphs Demonaut Jul 2016 #7

I don't think it's excuse making per se. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #8

^^ ++ ^^ the usual fear of even a hint of agreement with the other side Albertoo Jul 2016 #28

McVeigh was the gift that keeps on giving. Throd Jul 2016 #77

DU doesn't do nuance. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #9

It's not a function of nuance or lack thereof, it's about not putting human beings first. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #12

If a person mistreats people based on immutable characteristics that person is trash. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #13

who do you think supplies the officer corps of ISIS? Hint: it isnt KingCharlemagne Jul 2016 #10

Enlighten us: who empowers ISIS? (other than Saudi Arabia and Turkey?) Albertoo Jul 2016 #29

Here's what captured ISIS fighters say..... sinkingfeeling Jul 2016 #11

Good article. ronnie624 Jul 2016 #18

Radical Islam (wahhabism) was invented before the US ever set foot in the region Albertoo Jul 2016 #30

It's still illogical, harmful and amoral to invade and destroy other countries ronnie624 Jul 2016 #42

GW is a cretin (and possibly a war criminal) Albertoo Jul 2016 #45

The US was a brutal empire long before GW. n/t ronnie624 Jul 2016 #47

Islam has been brutal many centuries before the US came into existence. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2016 #56

underlying assumption: ronnie624 Jul 2016 #66

Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #70

recommended nt G_j Jul 2016 #68

+1,000,000 n/t cosmicone Jul 2016 #14

I can't believe how many duers sound like the freepers did 14 years ago Doctor_J Jul 2016 #15

It's different awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #38

When did my OP mention sending an outside military force? ButterflyBlood Jul 2016 #52

It didn't awoke_in_2003 Jul 2016 #62

The blame America / the West MicaelS Jul 2016 #17

Because invading and destroying other countries is no biggie? n/t ronnie624 Jul 2016 #21

Like Muslim invaders of the Middle East Christian nations in the 7th century? Albertoo Jul 2016 #32

Absolutely irrelevant in the current context of US imperialism. ronnie624 Jul 2016 #39

Because you choose to disregard the "violent Muslim policies of resource dominance in the ME" Albertoo Jul 2016 #43

There's nothing I can do about past history. ronnie624 Jul 2016 #49

Not only. We're responsible for standing up against both mad GWs and mad religions Albertoo Jul 2016 #50

We've spent half a century fighting secular arab countries killbotfactory Jul 2016 #57

Those 'secular' Arab countries were dictatorships fostering islamism Albertoo Jul 2016 #71

The abuse woman and gays get in the countries you support would curl yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #83

You sound like Fox News and Hate Radio Doctor_J Jul 2016 #41

To the RW, the US is reflexively always right, even when it's wrong (Iraq) Albertoo Jul 2016 #74

The damage done by US militarism in the ME is incalculable. ronnie624 Jul 2016 #85

I myself wrote many times what GW did was both a mistake and a crime Albertoo Jul 2016 #89

Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #69

You forgot slavery and genicide and apocalypse-worship Nevernose Jul 2016 #19

Also, don't forget that ISIS is primarily a criminal organization... much of the other stuff is JCMach1 Jul 2016 #20

No. ISIS is a literalist Muslim organization. Albertoo Jul 2016 #33

They are all about the money... the rest is largely window-dressing for PR JCMach1 Jul 2016 #81

You are confusing ends and means Albertoo Jul 2016 #87

And that's what they want you to believe... if we take an approach to stop 'that' JCMach1 Jul 2016 #93

Yours is a conspiracy theory. It doesn't fit the facts. Albertoo Jul 2016 #94

they're the enemy or our enemy (Christians&GOP) thus our friend. ileus Jul 2016 #22

A refreshingly sane point of view Albertoo Jul 2016 #34

They also like to rage against Christians Democat Jul 2016 #23

Excellent. bdwker Jul 2016 #24

Straw man, where is that? treestar Jul 2016 #25

I recced this BUT I think you mischaracterize some of the arguments MH1 Jul 2016 #35

France seems to be on the short end of the stick IronLionZion Jul 2016 #37

Wow, you don't know much about Iraq, do you? MohRokTah Jul 2016 #44

BTW, can you point me to some posts that "excuse ISIS"? Doctor_J Jul 2016 #46

If you don't think ISIS arose simply because Islam is a toxic religion, you are an ISIS apologist. killbotfactory Jul 2016 #53

Here ButterflyBlood Jul 2016 #55

Oh, so it's a big straw man argument? Bradical79 Jul 2016 #61

It is not making excuses for ISIS to question our treestar Jul 2016 #63

Here they are referred to as a "resistance movement." egduj Jul 2016 #82

You are wrong AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #51

Actually no ISIS predates the Iraq War ButterflyBlood Jul 2016 #54

Isis formed in the aftermath of the invasion AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #58

We essentially wiped out the future of an entire generation of young men killbotfactory Jul 2016 #64

Apparently, that's all just a coincidence. N/T Chathamization Jul 2016 #65

Yep, we radicalized a generation AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #67

Everyone knows ISIS is bad, but do we bomb innocent people to stop ISIS, or do Hoyt Jul 2016 #60

Bomb ISIS or not, you'll still be their enemy Albertoo Jul 2016 #73

Not sure which is worse, some ISIS guy beheading a few people, or our bombs beheading a lot. Hoyt Jul 2016 #80

So you think ISIS has only beheaded 'a few' people? Albertoo Jul 2016 #86

You'll never get it. Good luck. Hoyt Jul 2016 #90

I simply disagree with you. Good luck to you too. Albertoo Jul 2016 #91

Do you have some examples of such "excuse making"? Martin Eden Jul 2016 #72

I haven't seen it. Squinch Jul 2016 #75

Christians have killed far more ... GeorgeGist Jul 2016 #76

Have they? Throd Jul 2016 #78

I haven't seen any beheadings lately 840high Jul 2016 #79

The cultural left has enthusiastically appropriated the idea of "original sin" Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2016 #84

Seth Rogen movies, the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue, and internet porn are responsible for ISIS Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #88

Yes. An analyst called the "original sin" a symptom of "ghost Christianity" Albertoo Jul 2016 #92

I think that is found in the "SJW" phenomenon and radical environmentalism Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2016 #95

You hit the nail on the head: what will humans replace religion and revolution with? Albertoo Jul 2016 #96