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Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
102. Parse all you want to, but you just lost your own argument by acknowledging this....
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 06:03 AM
Jul 2016
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. On December 15, 1791, the Bill of Rights was adopted, having been ratified by three-fourths of the states.


First off, we didn't have a Standing Army, during Peacetime, until the U.S. Military was created by Congress on Sept. 29th, 1789. The "Colonial Army", which fought in the Revolutionary War, was never an "Official Army of The United States".... http://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/revolut/jb_revolut_army_1.html

As for the "Capital 'P'", there's this:


There are two principle versions of the Second Amendment: one version was passed by Congress, while the other is found in the copies distributed to each individual state and later ratified by them


As passed by the Congress:A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.{emphasis mine}

As ratified by the States: A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

http://constitution.laws.com/2nd-amendment


Then the debate on the 2nd Amendnent by The Federalists & Anti-Federalists:

The onset of war does not always allow time to raise and train an army, and the Revolutionary War showed that militia forces could not be relied on for national defense. The Constitutional Convention therefore decided that the federal government should have almost unfettered authority to establish peacetime standing armies and to regulate the militia.

This massive shift of power from the states to the federal government generated one of the chief objections to the proposed Constitution. Anti-Federalists argued that the proposed Constitution would take from the states their principal means of defense against federal usurpation. The Federalists responded that fears of federal oppression were overblown, in part because the American people were armed and would be almost impossible to subdue through military force.

Implicit in the debate between Federalists and Anti-Federalists were two shared assumptions. First, that the proposed new Constitution gave the federal government almost total legal authority over the army and militia. Second, that the federal government should not have any authority at all to disarm the citizenry. They disagreed only about whether an armed populace could adequately deter federal oppression.

The Second Amendment conceded nothing to the Anti-Federalists’ desire to sharply curtail the military power of the federal government, which would have required substantial changes in the original Constitution. Yet the Amendment was easily accepted because of widespread agreement that the federal government should not have the power to infringe the right of the people to keep and bear arms, any more than it should have the power to abridge the freedom of speech or prohibit the free exercise of religion {All emphasis mine}

http://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendments/


As for "It goes to the Supremes": IF you read the link right above this, you will be highly disappointed when your read this part:

Until recently, the judiciary treated the Second Amendment almost as a dead letter. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), however, the Supreme Court invalidated a federal law that forbade nearly all civilians from possessing handguns in the nation’s capital. A 5–4 majority ruled that the language and history of the Second Amendment showed that it protects a private right of individuals to have arms for their own defense, not a right of the states to maintain a militia.


Quite frankly, speaking as a gun owner, I have been so disgusted with the actions of people lately that I have gotten rid of all of my guns except for 2... a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and a .22 cal Benjamin pump-up PELLET gun that I have had for well over 30 years. I am trying to sell the shotgun now, as I need new tires for my car... and need them WAYYY more than I do the shotgun.

Good luck in your crusade, though, you are going to need a lot of it...

Peace,

Ghost

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I have notice that their being armed to the teeth didn't actually prevent Cheney/Bush from stealing villager Jul 2016 #1
Should we also start thinking about restricting the first amendment too? Bernielover357743 Jul 2016 #2
The Swizz modle is what safeinOhio Jul 2016 #6
Without getting into the issue of gun control, a side note: citood Jul 2016 #69
Have to deal with that nasty fifth sarisataka Jul 2016 #10
That's the dream... TipTok Jul 2016 #99
Read your spew. Thank you for making my point Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #13
Wow. You really fit the kook mold. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #18
The last thing we need is a bunch of wingnuts running around "participating in law enforcement". ronnie624 Jul 2016 #42
So, since many black men feel threatened and targeted by government tyranny then they are justified blm Jul 2016 #60
Well for one... philosslayer Jul 2016 #68
It is restricted treestar Jul 2016 #71
No rights are absolute. There are many restrictions/ limitations on the first amendment etherealtruth Jul 2016 #121
That's because they never make the news B2G Jul 2016 #3
Kinda what I was thinking... StraightRazor Jul 2016 #83
Your way of thinking is very black and white... Joe the Revelator Jul 2016 #4
Fuck grey Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #14
That is just silly. Joe the Revelator Jul 2016 #27
I'd like to see the papers Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #35
Here ya go Joe the Revelator Jul 2016 #38
That's just a blank Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #40
Sorry about that Joe the Revelator Jul 2016 #45
Hahaha And you call me silly. :) Come on Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #48
Oh... this is about saving lives? TipTok Jul 2016 #100
Nanny-staters are only lancer78 Jul 2016 #139
The first step to improvement GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #5
99.5% of gun owners are 'responsible gun owners'. X_Digger Jul 2016 #7
That makes too many that aren't. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #11
Criminologists will tell you that it's a small percentage of folks who commit most crime. X_Digger Jul 2016 #21
Yeah, yeah, yeah. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #25
Math not your strong suit? X_Digger Jul 2016 #30
Take your paranoia back to the Gungeon. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #50
I'm not the one freaking out and blaming 0.05% of gun owners. If there's someone paranoid.. X_Digger Jul 2016 #54
Why then, do you want to make it about the ones that are... beevul Jul 2016 #119
Which ones are "reponsible"? How do we recognize them? TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #122
The difference between responsible and irresponsivble, is behavior. beevul Jul 2016 #123
Uh-huh. I see. After it is too late, TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #124
Thats what laws are for, application against those who commit a crime. beevul Jul 2016 #125
Actually seems quite doable to identify potential gun violent perpetrators. Chicago, jmg257 Jul 2016 #126
Interesting comparison treestar Jul 2016 #75
Not 5%, 0.5%. Half a percent. (I'm not commenting on the other subject, I haven't read that thread.) X_Digger Jul 2016 #94
I support the individual right to keep and bear arms TeddyR Jul 2016 #8
I do not Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #16
Understood TeddyR Jul 2016 #26
Do you have any proposals sarisataka Jul 2016 #9
Just a little over the top there bud Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #19
It seems to be sarisataka Jul 2016 #24
Initially? Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #29
You still have a fifth amendment issue sarisataka Jul 2016 #36
Read the remarks in the OP Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #37
it is a bit to restrictive for my taste sarisataka Jul 2016 #46
That amendment, per both parties, has no real standing. Exilednight Jul 2016 #104
**cough**BS**cough** Lurker Deluxe Jul 2016 #105
it's not utter bullshit, and as per your example, yes they can. Exilednight Jul 2016 #112
Doesn't say what you stated Lurker Deluxe Jul 2016 #117
The trouble with trampling rights sarisataka Jul 2016 #106
And they don't surrender, then ... Igel Jul 2016 #49
Yanno, Australia did it. Not long ago. Peacefully. Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #56
Australia did what, exactly? beevul Jul 2016 #120
Since about 0.003% of the firearms in this Country are used to murder someone, I'd say the other Waldorf Jul 2016 #12
Until they're not Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #20
I guess you better raid my liquor cabinet. I'm responsible drinker, until I'm not. Waldorf Jul 2016 #23
There ya go. Deflection and obfuscation Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #31
OMI GOD.. virginia mountainman Jul 2016 #32
I agree with you. Notice how panicked the gop is now about open carry in front of their convention MariaThinks Jul 2016 #80
Go dig up a pre-cog... TipTok Jul 2016 #101
Most, the great majority, never become "not". beevul Jul 2016 #108
that's all it takes to kill a lot of people these days. MariaThinks Jul 2016 #81
Believe me, if gun owners where the "problem" you pretend them to be.. virginia mountainman Jul 2016 #15
You are welcome to do whatever the fuck you wanna do Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #22
Ok, you can do that..No problem with it. virginia mountainman Jul 2016 #28
What's next? Blood on the tree of liberty? Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #33
Will you defend the right of others with bad intention to do the same? Doodley Jul 2016 #43
If they make their intentions known.. virginia mountainman Jul 2016 #55
The mass shooters never are. Doodley Jul 2016 #58
Your "way of thinking" needs improvement then. FLPanhandle Jul 2016 #17
Then, as the OP states, you support the right of crazy guys and would-be mass shooters to own guns. Doodley Jul 2016 #41
Semi automatic weapons Abq_Sarah Jul 2016 #96
I don't own a gun, but if police can have guns then ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #34
So you're okay with killing cops? Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #39
If a human is trying to kill you, ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #44
I hear what you are saying, but how does that work in practice? Doodley Jul 2016 #53
In my opinion, in that situation, the driver would be starting the violence. ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #59
Follow that thought out a little more Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #70
How about a country where some demographics are ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #88
So then we go back to the original thought. Killing cops is okay in your book. Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #89
My old answer still applies. lol nt ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #93
I've owned guns responsibly my whole adult life AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #47
For the sake of argument, I will stipulate that you're a model gun owner Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #51
You'll never hear about a responsible gun owner. egduj Jul 2016 #52
I will never hear of one because they don't exist. Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #57
I grew up with responsible gun owners left-of-center2012 Jul 2016 #61
I smiled when I read your OP for two reasons. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #62
The vast majority of gun owners are responsible, guillaumeb Jul 2016 #63
The issues not so cut and dry UnFettered Jul 2016 #64
So which is it really? Oneka Jul 2016 #65
Oh, they're ALL responsible, right up to the moment they aren't. VOX Jul 2016 #66
I like to think we are snpsmom Jul 2016 #67
That is a good point about treestar Jul 2016 #72
If there are no other guns then they don't need them off duty either. Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #73
I'm surprised they are not treestar Jul 2016 #74
Well the Democratic party disagrees with you. Statistical Jul 2016 #76
Couple of things: Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #82
Hate to break it to you but it isn't capitalized in the original. Statistical Jul 2016 #86
I stand by my interpretation. Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #87
It is very creative. Nt jmg257 Jul 2016 #91
Parse all you want to, but you just lost your own argument by acknowledging this.... Ghost in the Machine Jul 2016 #102
Most rural gun owners are responsible Warpy Jul 2016 #77
silly, not well thought out rambling post AntiBank Jul 2016 #78
No need to repeal the 2A Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #84
it will never happen, these threads are such a waste of time AntiBank Jul 2016 #90
But they sure do draw clicks! Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #92
People slow down at car crashes, too. nt Lonusca Jul 2016 #107
You are allowed to think anyway you want. Lance Bass esquire Jul 2016 #79
Don't equate some yahoos with a gun fetish to real patriots who would spill their blood if needed. Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #85
Thank goodness for the disclaimer. Dumbest thing I've read all day. n/t flvegan Jul 2016 #95
Guns suck!!! StrictlyRockers Jul 2016 #97
Speak for yourself.. virginia mountainman Jul 2016 #98
lol... that reminds me of this teeshirt: EX500rider Jul 2016 #127
Now that's progressive... ileus Jul 2016 #103
Blame math... beevul Jul 2016 #109
Or Guns Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #110
No. beevul Jul 2016 #111
See, here's the thing. I think your view is ABHORRENT Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #113
No, not silly and misguided. Abhorrent and offensive. beevul Jul 2016 #118
And I think *your* views on gun owners are on a par with Pam Geller's views on Muslims friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #129
That's just slightly off base Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #131
We might as well start with the known <1% responsible for 70-80% of gun crimes. jmg257 Jul 2016 #114
Melt 'em Stinky The Clown Jul 2016 #115
That's the ticket! Gotta start somewhere. jmg257 Jul 2016 #116
Well, heck, Stinky.............. raven mad Jul 2016 #128
I guess Obama is part of the "gun problem" in your words. former9thward Jul 2016 #130
Gunners consider George Zimmerman a responsible gun owner, his Killing T Martin is counted Hoyt Jul 2016 #132
Isn't being a "responsible gun owner" like being a "responsible flame thrower owner"? BlueStater Jul 2016 #133
Flame throwers are actually classified as agricultural equipment... beevul Jul 2016 #134
They're weapons. They were first used during World War I. BlueStater Jul 2016 #136
Thats your opinion. beevul Jul 2016 #137
Yeah, it's my opinion and I'm expressing it. BlueStater Jul 2016 #138
Are those goalposts heavy? beevul Jul 2016 #140
Your arms must be straining from all the reaching you're doing. BlueStater Jul 2016 #141
ROFL. Its YOUR criteria. beevul Jul 2016 #142
If you own bows and arrows just for the sake of owning bows and arrows, it's irresponsible. BlueStater Jul 2016 #143
And how do you feel about crossbows? oneshooter Jul 2016 #144
Yup - no purpose, unless of course you want to burn something, or shoot something. jmg257 Jul 2016 #135
8 year old Port Orange Florida boy onethatcares Jul 2016 #145
Funny story REP Jul 2016 #146
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