General Discussion

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)

12. Short term beats long term, every time

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 02:44 PM

Jul 2016

That's just how we're built. Our abstract imaginations can think of all kinds of things for the future, but we exist in the right now. If you want to have a kid, if you want to have 10 kids, nobody gets to stop you. Why? Because humans aren't good at making choices for other humans. We always complain about fairness.

Medical science. Short term, people live. Long term, there are more people alive, needing more resources. The Green Revolution. Short term, people live. Long term, there are more people alive, needing more resources. Having a child. Short term, parents might be happy, the child has a world full of potential in them. Long term, it's another person, needing more resources.

There might be 7+ billion people on the planet, but you don't know and will never even meet the vast majority of them. Your friend or relative that just had a kid? You may know and love them, and are happy for them, because their kid is just one kid who you will know. That kid isn't just 1 in the abstract number of 7+ billion other humans.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

147 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

With an unstoppable global warming, overpopulation, and food and water shortages. [View all] Dawgs Jul 2016 OP

You know that's your perspective rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #1

My "perspective" is based on science and facts. Changing my opinion won't make a difference. Dawgs Jul 2016 #8

Lol I'm a biologist rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #14

Got it. Humans are incapable of not reproducing because they are dumb animals that like fucking. Dawgs Jul 2016 #100

Lol alas a true one rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #115

That's not what essme Jul 2016 #138

It pretty much is Dawgs Jul 2016 #142

I would say woman continued to Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #121

Who said it will all be ok? rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #125

I am indeed saying woman had no choice Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #137

We are talking past each other rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #139

BS. Many people want children but still choose not to have them. Dawgs Jul 2016 #143

Of course and so what? rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #145

I'm thrilled when people have kids yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #18

I'm not convinced about that. it seems that since the 1980s that the world Exilednight Jul 2016 #54

+1 ChazII Jul 2016 #72

ye0man6987 and chazII - both + 1 calm_thinker Jul 2016 #80

Evolve? joeunderdog Jul 2016 #76

long term, temperatures are on a downward trend Angel Martin Jul 2016 #86

Long term, in how much of that timeline truebluegreen Jul 2016 #102

evolution occurred over millions of years nt Angel Martin Jul 2016 #118

Why, yes. Yes, it did. truebluegreen Jul 2016 #122

You expect human procreation to cease entirely and immediately? Marengo Jul 2016 #2

I never said it should end entirely and immediately. Dawgs Jul 2016 #4

Over population was once a big concern radical noodle Jul 2016 #28

Some, or all people? As it's written, your statement seems to suggest all people, everywhere. Marengo Jul 2016 #5

Well, you're wrong. nt Dawgs Jul 2016 #9

Well, toss some modifiers in there! Marengo Jul 2016 #10

Because sex is fun and feels incredible. Moostache Jul 2016 #3

A Human's ability to ignore the life-threatening climate catastrophe just around the corner... Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #6

Yep. Things really are that bad. Dawgs Jul 2016 #11

may I ask sweetapogee Jul 2016 #13

No. I'm not. nt Dawgs Jul 2016 #34

then sweetapogee Jul 2016 #92

No thanks. I trust others that do that for a living. Dawgs Jul 2016 #101

thanks for the advice!!!! sweetapogee Jul 2016 #113

It doesn't matter if you believe it or not. It is what it is. Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #16

I think you mis-read my post. Dawgs Jul 2016 #35

Ah, sorry. I took "why pay attention to scientists" as sarcasm... Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #49

Scientists had the world ending by now. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #56

So because the world population MIGHT die out in 100 years, yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #19

How to you "deprive" a person who does not exist of anything? Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #23

I don't know yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #26

Do you read what you post? Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #123

+1 LiberalLoner Jul 2016 #62

Bollocks A HERETIC I AM Jul 2016 #75

Yes, humans survived the ice age, but Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #78

More bollocks A HERETIC I AM Jul 2016 #83

I won't be able to say "I told you so" because Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #84

And you're underestimating how dependent the majority modern humanity is on technology. Lancero Jul 2016 #88

The Clown said the human race will not exist in 100 years A HERETIC I AM Jul 2016 #89

Or maybe even a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand. Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #131

You must be a blast at parties n/t A HERETIC I AM Jul 2016 #132

And a scientist in this thread disagrees. What are your credentials? Marengo Jul 2016 #91

Are you a climate scientist who's sole job is to study global warming? Dawgs Jul 2016 #103

I made no such claim and was referencing post #14. Authored by a scientist... Marengo Jul 2016 #112

"refuting"? or disagreeing? There's a big difference. Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #116

Refuting may be too strong, but I believe this cycle of climate change will not cause... Marengo Jul 2016 #130

Quite telling Delphinus Jul 2016 #128

I understand what you are saying and it is from a point of compassion. glinda Jul 2016 #7

Short term beats long term, every time The2ndWheel Jul 2016 #12

Because it will get better. Glassunion Jul 2016 #15

That's not what the science is telling us NickB79 Jul 2016 #21

At a minimum... PoutrageFatigue Jul 2016 #25

"On track" assumes no game changing technological advances. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #32

failing that, our AI robot "progeny" will carry on eShirl Jul 2016 #93

Maybe they would if we actually used them truebluegreen Jul 2016 #104

Yes, we're so smart that an end-run around thermodynamics is just around the corner . . . hatrack Jul 2016 #117

end run around thermodynamics, no. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #119

I am afraid that is simply not true. Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #124

Okay, well, if I'm wrong then we're fucked anyway. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #127

I suppose that is true. Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #135

I LOVE this post! N/t Sissyk Jul 2016 #58

we could have already discovered all those things Skittles Jul 2016 #73

Indeed. Glassunion Jul 2016 #114

Should I apologize to my children for having them? Throd Jul 2016 #17

You can do whatever you want. Dawgs Jul 2016 #24

You would apologize to your own children... philosslayer Jul 2016 #68

Are we at peak scold yet? alcibiades_mystery Jul 2016 #20

Thread Win. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #30

We got a long way to go before we overpopulate the planet. Rex Jul 2016 #22

With humans it's also not just the raw number of people The2ndWheel Jul 2016 #40

We already comsume 2-1/2 planet's worth of renewable resources. Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #50

Nobody lives in the Star Trek fantasyland world, most are busy getting food and water. Rex Jul 2016 #51

. Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #52

+1 LiberalLoner Jul 2016 #61

Man will survive. Wayburn Jul 2016 #27

The planet will survive just fine. truebluegreen Jul 2016 #107

and what happens if Compact high beta Fusion comes online in the next couple decades? Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #29

In my 70 years I've seen so many miracle technologies that are ALWAYS just a few decades away... Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #81

Sure, and people have been predicting total doom for humanity since forever, too. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #82

4 billion years of life, most of it without humans, and most of the future also without humans. n/t Binkie The Clown Jul 2016 #85

Like i said. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #87

I have 4 grandchildren who I love. skip fox Jul 2016 #31

I have a lot of young children in my life now. I love them all. Dawgs Jul 2016 #33

I felt that way 30 years ago, Dawgs Auggie Jul 2016 #36

And what is the fertility rate in the United States, currently? Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #38

US is ranked 124 with a fertility rate Revanchist Jul 2016 #41

Point being, in the developed world where people are free and have access to reproductive services Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #43

It's areas of the world where it doesn't that will drag us all down Auggie Jul 2016 #53

I come from a very long line of survivors. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #37

I guess it depends where you live seanbnewyork4 Jul 2016 #39

Because LWolf Jul 2016 #42

The government needs more taxpayers, not less. The2ndWheel Jul 2016 #44

That continuous growth model LWolf Jul 2016 #46

Social security is dead without it. philosslayer Jul 2016 #69

Not necessarily. LWolf Jul 2016 #70

Anything short of continuous growth creates social problems The2ndWheel Jul 2016 #79

That continuous growth model LWolf Jul 2016 #105

Civilization is a resource concentration mechanism The2ndWheel Jul 2016 #141

To be, of course. nt LWolf Jul 2016 #146

Except, in the US, the fertility rate is at about replacment levels. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #48

Population reduction LWolf Jul 2016 #66

I'm pro-choice. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #67

The planet's in it's 11th hour riderinthestorm Jul 2016 #45

That's how species survive jpak Jul 2016 #47

there is one question I think of DonCoquixote Jul 2016 #55

You must be fun at a baby shower. nt auntpurl Jul 2016 #57

Not everyone has such a depressing view of the world taught_me_patience Jul 2016 #59

Agreed with OP Calculating Jul 2016 #60

it makes me sad too undergroundpanther Jul 2016 #63

I thought the overall birthing population was leveling out though. romanic Jul 2016 #64

Leveling out rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #65

What if global warming caused the opposite? madville Jul 2016 #71

Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #74

Poe's Law. ^^^ nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2016 #95

individual baby announcements are fine Skittles Jul 2016 #77

Qualifiers-nice! calendargirl Jul 2016 #97

LOL Skittles Jul 2016 #120

This^^^^ Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #126

Perspective from a "breeder" here Zing Zing Zingbah Jul 2016 #90

The ignorance and denialism displayed on this thread is your answer. ronnie624 Jul 2016 #94

Because many of us are social creatures who enjoy a family life. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2016 #96

I hear you, but... lapislzi Jul 2016 #98

Okay, but I never suggested that I make a choice for anyone else. nt Dawgs Jul 2016 #99

It's a common line of 'reasoning'. ronnie624 Jul 2016 #108

Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. lapislzi Jul 2016 #109

we already tried promoting family planning. 6chars Jul 2016 #106

Is this a joke? cosmicone Jul 2016 #110

Totally missed the point, but thanks for the kick. nt Dawgs Jul 2016 #111

Another Malthusian. Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #129

Another one that missed the point. Dawgs Jul 2016 #134

That you think there should be less people? Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #136

I didn't say there should be less people. I said that I don't understand why people reproduce. Dawgs Jul 2016 #144

Not really. LOL. Since one leads to the other. Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #147

Is climate change humanity's greatest-ever risk management failure? ronnie624 Jul 2016 #133

I remember hearing about ZPG (Zero Population Growth) in sixth grade. milestogo Jul 2016 #140