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In reply to the discussion: Here's a gun question: [View all]

Statistical

(19,264 posts)
8. It never was. Your question is actually reversed
Tue Jul 19, 2016, 12:57 PM
Jul 2016

Assault rifles is a military term which refers to select fire (automatic or burst fire) rifles. The term came about to distinguish it from earlier battle rifles because assault rifles were designed to fire a less powerful cartridge (and thus carry more ammo) as well as being capable of engaging targets at longer range.

The first assault rifle was a nazi weapon. It was the Sturmgewehr 44 which literally translates to "Assault Rifle 44". No the Nazi engineers weren't particularly creative in their naming of weapons.

The Sturmgewehr 44 was so radical as a concept other countries began to copy it and make similar weapons aka their own assault rifles. They called those weapons assault rifles meaning weapons which were similar to the Sturmgewehr 44. Eventually the term came to be used generically as an entire class of infantry rifles.

The AR-15 never was an assault rifle. Also "assault rifle" isn't used as a legal definition in the US. Even the NFA which regulates actual military hardware (automatic weapons, explosives, missiles, etc) doesn't use the term assault rifle. Under the NFA any weapon capable of automatic fire is a machine gun so a M-16 would be a "machine gun" although the military would never use such terminology our legal code does. There is no distinction between a M-16 (soldier rifle) and a M-2 (heavy crew served machinegun) under the NFA anything which is 1 trigger pull = more than 1 bullet is a machinegun.

Then along came the AWB (Assault Weapons Ban) which defined for the first time the word "assault weapon". Some semi-automatic rifles including the AR-15 were classified as "assault weapons". If the terminology between assault weapon and assault rifle seems similar it was intentional. Even under the AWB the AR-15 isn't legally an assault rifle it is an assault weapon.

So the real question is when did people decide an AR-15 WAS an assault rifle.

Over time the media began to just use assault rifle interchangeably with the word assault weapon. So when people use the word assault rifle today it could mean essentially anything from military hardware down to scary looking black rifle or even any semi-automatic weapon (which is most firearms in the world).

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Here's a gun question: [View all] Exilednight Jul 2016 OP
First "define assault rifle" Logical Jul 2016 #1
I put an example in my question. Exilednight Jul 2016 #2
No you didn't, you made an inaccurate assumption. cleanhippie Jul 2016 #43
Here is a better "REAL GOOD" gun answer, w/ images and a short movie Jeffersons Ghost Jul 2016 #112
Wikipedia definition. B Calm Jul 2016 #71
What does "assault rifle" Even mean? Logical Jul 2016 #3
To many who defend the 2nd to the bitter end it supposedly Exilednight Jul 2016 #4
When has it meant anything differently? hack89 Jul 2016 #72
That's my question. When did it to come to strictly mean Exilednight Jul 2016 #75
I simply think it is the only definition that has ever been used hack89 Jul 2016 #76
So you are basing that definition on what you believe? Exilednight Jul 2016 #79
I can't find any examples of semi-auto rifles commonly being called assault rifles. hack89 Jul 2016 #83
Anything that can fire off more than two bullets without reloading. nt madinmaryland Jul 2016 #69
So a cap and ball revolver is an assault rifle? Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #81
Yes. nt madinmaryland Jul 2016 #82
So "assault rifles" were used in the Civil War? Straw Man Jul 2016 #100
Isn't it a good idea anoNY42 Jul 2016 #5
there is. one is called full-auto, the other is called semi-auto. Exilednight Jul 2016 #6
Are you objecting to the term "assault rifle" as it is commonly defined? anoNY42 Jul 2016 #18
I'm asking a question. everyone is trying to argue about Exilednight Jul 2016 #37
It is generally understood that "assault" rifles (can) opperate in "fully automatic" mode. jonno99 Jul 2016 #7
I know the difference, but that doesn't answer the question. Exilednight Jul 2016 #10
See #8 for a better answer than mine... jonno99 Jul 2016 #12
except that with mods like bump fire kits drray23 Jul 2016 #133
No. beevul Jul 2016 #143
It never was. Your question is actually reversed Statistical Jul 2016 #8
Legally it was defines to include the AR-15. Exilednight Jul 2016 #11
What is the "it" in your response? anoNY42 Jul 2016 #20
No it wasn't. Statistical Jul 2016 #21
No, you're confusing the term "assault rifle" with "assault weapon" aikoaiko Jul 2016 #56
No. you're confusing legally defined with legislatively defined. Exilednight Jul 2016 #59
Both were defined legislatively. beevul Jul 2016 #61
That's an interesting distinction. I'm fairly certain that legislative definitions supercede judges' aikoaiko Jul 2016 #64
My father was. He was first a corporate lawyer, made a ton of Exilednight Jul 2016 #66
Even if the judge's definition differs from a legislative definition? aikoaiko Jul 2016 #67
Yes. But it can change again if it's overturned by a higher court Exilednight Jul 2016 #73
Do we know of a judge determining that an AR15 is an 'assault rifle'? aikoaiko Jul 2016 #96
Used as a legal definition by whom? hardluck Jul 2016 #124
By anyone attempting to use legal language as part of their argument. Exilednight Jul 2016 #129
Been struggling with a response hardluck Jul 2016 #145
There are many possible ways. Exilednight Jul 2016 #146
"when did people decide an AR-15 WAS an assault rifle." - the REAL answer? When they saw jonno99 Jul 2016 #17
That's not what I asked, but thanks for playing. Exilednight Jul 2016 #38
You've been given lots of answers, yet dismiss them all because it's not what you want to hear. cleanhippie Jul 2016 #45
I'm not looking for a definition, I am looking for the historical Exilednight Jul 2016 #52
This message was self-deleted by its author jmg257 Jul 2016 #54
Neutral historical perspective. jmg257 Jul 2016 #55
Clarification. Straw Man Jul 2016 #105
Oh boy! SheriffBob Jul 2016 #9
Well, it is Guns Discussion -- the preferred site among three (3) for controller/banners. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #36
Perhaps this might help. ... spin Jul 2016 #13
"Assault Rifle" is a military term referring to specific characteristics of a firearm. Glassunion Jul 2016 #14
Who and when, that is all I am asking. Exilednight Jul 2016 #39
Who: U.S. Army When: November 1970 Glassunion Jul 2016 #41
Link? Exilednight Jul 2016 #42
Not sure if it's the earliest, but it's the earliest in print I could find. Glassunion Jul 2016 #47
Good stuff - thanks! nt jmg257 Jul 2016 #110
It was a desperate PR move by the gun industry and gun rights people. Paladin Jul 2016 #15
Really? First ad for the Colt AR-15. Ikonoklast Jul 2016 #107
See my reference to the MediaMatters article, down-thread. (nt) Paladin Jul 2016 #119
Hitler, when he coined the term "storm (assault) rifle" in 1944. jmg257 Jul 2016 #16
Ruh roh, the gun nomenclature circle jerk begins. Darb Jul 2016 #19
Ah homophobic terms sarisataka Jul 2016 #22
So............. Darb Jul 2016 #24
Don't worry sarisataka Jul 2016 #28
I think he was talking about "reach around"... anoNY42 Jul 2016 #29
Strictly men? Darb Jul 2016 #30
Well, if you want to get technical... anoNY42 Jul 2016 #31
Well, there ya go. Darb Jul 2016 #33
Was it Potter Stewart who said anoNY42 Jul 2016 #34
A magazine is something that holds ammunition and is then inserted into a weapon Separation Jul 2016 #147
Merci beaucoup. Darb Jul 2016 #149
For hunting, in most states its 5. Separation Jul 2016 #151
When I was a kid, we had to plug down to 3. Darb Jul 2016 #152
You are correct! I misspoke. Separation Jul 2016 #153
Important fact to keep in mind: Paladin Jul 2016 #154
Darb, if you are looking for a non-homophobic metaphor of this nature (caution)... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #44
I best cut my losses. Darb Jul 2016 #46
He's asking a question about nomenclature. Adrahil Jul 2016 #127
The Department of the Treasury, BATF workgroup in 1989, concurred... jmg257 Jul 2016 #23
That is a useful reference. Thank you. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #57
Because the gunners define "assault rifle" as fully automatic, even though common use includes Hoyt Jul 2016 #25
So does ATF. beevul Jul 2016 #63
It just proves you are WRONG and your attempts to promote more gunz are based on deceit. Hoyt Jul 2016 #65
The Germans during WWII Matrosov Jul 2016 #26
Always nice to see pro-gun militants showing such regard for Nazi Germany after all these years.(nt) Paladin Jul 2016 #131
Is that what this is all about? Straw Man Jul 2016 #136
Some times you people just ask for it. Paladin Jul 2016 #138
Ask for what? Straw Man Jul 2016 #140
How many people has Ted Nugent had killed while making records? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #142
Misfire! beevul Jul 2016 #144
The AR-15 does not fit the definition. GOLGO 13 Jul 2016 #27
sure that's an answer to some question, bit not what I asked. Exilednight Jul 2016 #40
You just opened yourself up for endless bullshit doc03 Jul 2016 #32
AR-15 is a shitty home defense weapon. Anyone who says otherwise Separation Jul 2016 #148
A round from an AR-15 will only go through 4 walls if you live in a grass shack... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #155
The ATF? ileus Jul 2016 #35
The most important thing is that we not offend gun advocates Orrex Jul 2016 #48
Actually, the most important "thing" is truth, not sloppy-handed deception. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #50
It's just common courtesy on a website where everyone is working towards the same goal... anoNY42 Jul 2016 #51
Yeah, gun advocates always say that. Orrex Jul 2016 #60
The AR-15 is hardly obscure anoNY42 Jul 2016 #113
Nonsense. All of it. Orrex Jul 2016 #114
Nobody here is really interested in serious discussions of gun control hack89 Jul 2016 #116
A serious discussion of your comments anoNY42 Jul 2016 #117
Well... Orrex Jul 2016 #118
Well anoNY42 Jul 2016 #120
For the most part, it appears that we agree. Orrex Jul 2016 #122
Precision. Straw Man Jul 2016 #139
Or at least make an attempt to be accurate and educated on the subject. You know, as would be... Marengo Jul 2016 #53
Why do you feel the need to be offensive? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #121
You don't seem to understand, so here is the most salient quote on his matter... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #49
Exilednight, here's some further information on the subject: Paladin Jul 2016 #58
I'm curious to know why this matters? TeddyR Jul 2016 #62
To some it does matter. What I really want to know is who actually Exilednight Jul 2016 #68
Fair enough TeddyR Jul 2016 #77
Lots of people have answered - you simply refuse to listen. hack89 Jul 2016 #78
No one has answered it. on what authority are we accepting this definition? Exilednight Jul 2016 #80
You were shown the legal definitions that the US government uses to classify rifles. hack89 Jul 2016 #84
Legal definitions aren't the cornerstone of English. There are reasons Exilednight Jul 2016 #88
You were shown the ATF definition hack89 Jul 2016 #85
The ATF decided? They were the first to use the assault rifle? Exilednight Jul 2016 #89
No - they ruled what was NOT an assault rifle hack89 Jul 2016 #90
Then that doesn't answer the question. Exilednight Jul 2016 #93
Why is this so important? hack89 Jul 2016 #97
It is the English translation of Sturmgewehr hack89 Jul 2016 #86
So Hitler invented it as a propaganda term. Exilednight Jul 2016 #91
You were told that several times. nt hack89 Jul 2016 #92
"Assault rifle" was originally a military term. Straw Man Jul 2016 #70
But who gave us the definition, and when? Exilednight Jul 2016 #94
Nobody "gave" the "definition." Straw Man Jul 2016 #99
The Germans, as has been pointed out Matrosov Jul 2016 #103
This message was self-deleted by its author jmg257 Jul 2016 #108
There used to be a real... deathrind Jul 2016 #74
My AR15 is a counter-assault rifle. ileus Jul 2016 #87
My Kitchen Aid is a Counter-Top mixer Glassunion Jul 2016 #95
Dealing with them MyNameGoesHere Jul 2016 #98
Who are you referring to? TeddyR Jul 2016 #101
U.S. Military handbook for the M16 Assault rifle. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2016 #102
That is not a US military manual. Straw Man Jul 2016 #104
Yeah I was going to say same thing. The Army is kinda boring and just calls it the "M-16 Rifle". Statistical Jul 2016 #106
The Army should be the last ones to define anything. How many trucks Exilednight Jul 2016 #115
The Fedorov Avtomat would have been the first, though the Sturmgewehr 44 or StG 44 gave them Agnosticsherbet Jul 2016 #123
"Used by everyone"? N/T beevul Jul 2016 #125
More on Hitler, and the US Military Intelligence Service use of "assault rifle" in 1945 jmg257 Jul 2016 #109
It's interesting to see this downplaying the rifle. Adrahil Jul 2016 #126
If you're ever interested in the internecine squabbling on the issue DonP Jul 2016 #128
I actually own a Spencer. Adrahil Jul 2016 #132
I'm looking into a decent Sharps now DonP Jul 2016 #134
Yeah, a decent Sharps = $$$$$ Adrahil Jul 2016 #135
Yeah, it's definitely a "saving up for" project DonP Jul 2016 #137
I have another question ... Straw Man Jul 2016 #111
Feel free to start your own thread. Exilednight Jul 2016 #130
This message was self-deleted by its author jmg257 Jul 2016 #141
One thing for sure though Separation Jul 2016 #150
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