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HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

111. I am not at all sure that's true. I think that's a great excuse for discarding any interest in them

Fri Jul 22, 2016, 07:56 AM

Jul 2016

But I think you've come quite close to the truth about persuasion just before you alluded to them as un-serious and not engaging in making a serious choice: "holdouts are going to come around is if they decide on their own"

Persuasion is almost always about making people feel as if making a decision is a personal recognition that a decision -is their own- mostly because it conforms to things they already believe in.

Salesmen fail when they choose to message in a manner that goes against the grain of a buyers' interests and beliefs. It's pretty basic industrial psychology applied by marketers and taught in all elementary courses in communications.

Does it matter? Well maybe and maybe not. It seems like it would if you want to build HRC's popularity numbers. Look at the polling evidence in the two-way races:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

HRCs running averages of national polls are not and have not been soaring. They aren't even significantly building. Their last significant move up ended about Mar 22. Depending on how a person sets the limit on Bollinger bands of such time-series, a person could reasonably argue her numbers haven't moved outside the limits of err since Sept 16 2015.

The campaign can try to message -to- the interests of others, or simply go with projection of what they think has worked for the support they have. Consistent with your argument, campaign and supporter strategy seems to be set on projection of their own beliefs.

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To Dems pushing Fear at Progressives...I mean this constructively. PLEASE, STOP! [View all] HereSince1628 Jul 2016 OP

61 views tk2kewl Jul 2016 #1

Yes, but an alert AllyCat Jul 2016 #3

Yes, dems are divided into the hopeful and the fearful HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #7

Don't Think of an Elephant tk2kewl Jul 2016 #15

No, actually, that is not a natural assumption. Hortensis Jul 2016 #17

I think Donald Trump is fearful. I'm not going to apologize for recommending fear. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #2

There are people who don't see it that way AllyCat Jul 2016 #4

That's fine. Find me someone more fearful as prez than Donald Trump and I'm on board. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #6

I thought Cruz would have been more frightening. AllyCat Jul 2016 #18

You vote in a election with the candidates you got Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2016 #140

Yup. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #141

I give you FDR, 1933: Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #8

Um..ok, not sure what your point is with that quote but- you're happy, I'm happy. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #9

You were asserting the virtues of using fear as a motivator, I pointed out Democratic Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #37

Was I? See I thought I was pointing out a genuine fear that I and others have re: Trump. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #43

Dollars to donuts we see this either in video form or repeated in a speech at the convention. Arkana Jul 2016 #138

No one is asking you to...maybe just don't use it on people for whom it won't work. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #10

So do these people wear like shirts that say, "Don't scare me" or something?? MichiganVote Jul 2016 #11

Maybe on DU they have avatars or other indicators of their progressive nature. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #12

In this country, if you do not vote republican, in 'other' circles, MichiganVote Jul 2016 #20

Well you're arguing strawmen. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #32

And that is usually the response when nothing else need be said. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #34

You're wanting to get into something other than how to message progressives HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #39

Am I? See I think its valid for people to express their fears and I think its valid MichiganVote Jul 2016 #48

This thread was set in place as a counter to a DU thread, why would I contact the campaign? HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #49

Because you seem to espouse a type of communication with progressive people, or MichiganVote Jul 2016 #50

I have every confidence that the political scientists with HRC's campaign know this HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #55

You know what? I hate to break it to you but 'Sanders supporters' is a mirage. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #29

Come on. That doesn't contribute to the conversation AllyCat Jul 2016 #26

The threat of fear does not equal a lack of constructive dialogue. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #31

the audience you speak of qazplm Jul 2016 #112

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #114

I'm with you. Scruffy1 Jul 2016 #89

I recall after 911 all the fear people had. Given what people knew, it was justified. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #91

Fear is what did it for me. Just saying. onecaliberal Jul 2016 #5

By "worked", do you mean "left Clinton massively ahead in the polls"? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jul 2016 #13

I mean particularly whatever works to induce the fearful motivation in them the project HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #19

I don't care what side anybody is on, but if the human traffic cone is elected, world wide wally Jul 2016 #14

Lol! And yes, I will be afraid. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #24

Why do you separate Dems and Progressives?? Enough of that crap. riversedge Jul 2016 #16

I wasn't dividing them so much as asking Dems trying to reach progressives HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #21

Anyone who is paying attention--even remotely, should not need convincing at any level. riversedge Jul 2016 #36

Really. If this shit doesn't convince them, they are just trolling. It is just not credible. Squinch Jul 2016 #80

+1, you're on the right track MichiganVote Jul 2016 #22

There is a Progressive Caucus. Are you saying they AllyCat Jul 2016 #30

Because the terms are not synonymous ibegurpard Jul 2016 #129

Anybody who's not afraid of the direction the republicans will sufrommich Jul 2016 #23

That's fine as a personal opinion. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #28

The national elections haven't even started,it's the doldrums of summer sufrommich Jul 2016 #38

It may be, but that's beside the point as there is that FEAR thread running in this forum HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #40

Then don't use it. Others disagree with you. They will use it. Stop telling them not to. Squinch Jul 2016 #82

Yup MichiganVote Jul 2016 #33

What amazes me is they call themselves progressives who want the arthritisR_US Jul 2016 #53

The term Democratic Socialist comes to mind. Not going to happen. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #71

Their all or nothing thinking will be your country 's ruin. nt arthritisR_US Jul 2016 #74

There is no form of governance or politics that is pretty. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #76

How ugly are some willing to let it go? It certainly won't be the arthritisR_US Jul 2016 #78

Well to be fair, they do suffer occasionally via history. And some are even innocent. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #81

Respectfully I must disagree. They don't suffer occasionally, they suffer routinely. arthritisR_US Jul 2016 #83

Not sure of your meaning. MichiganVote Jul 2016 #85

Great post malaise Jul 2016 #25

Your concern concerning this concern is concerning. eom MohRokTah Jul 2016 #27

I haven't been pushing fear (not a single post) .... etherealtruth Jul 2016 #35

Everyone has their emotions, everyone's emotions are valid for them, but HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #41

I understand the use of fear .... etherealtruth Jul 2016 #57

Your emotions are valid. But they may not motivate others as they do you. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #63

It seems like LWolf Jul 2016 #42

I think much of what you say is true. IMO voting Dem still has pro-Bernie angles HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #46

What Sanders is doing LWolf Jul 2016 #60

Progressives are dreamers? "They are attracted to hope, and hope for things that they desire"? TheProgressive Jul 2016 #44

I'd entertain arguing about the Progressive label elsewhere, but it's not the point of this thread HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #47

I was just correcting you on your position of Progressives. TheProgressive Jul 2016 #52

It is time to unite and defeat Trump in November, let's focus on Electing Thinkingabout Jul 2016 #45

Why don't the progressives do their own homework and come up with stopbush Jul 2016 #51

Exactly. The OP is all about "Pay attention to meeeee!" Nothing else. BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #118

How do you know Trump isn't Hitler? That's how hitler happend, by people not realizing they should TeamPooka Jul 2016 #54

The topic is about how to persuade Sanders/progressive voters who orient differently HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #58

Well, you see, but that confuses me...are you saying that progressives need to be... Moonwalk Jul 2016 #62

I'm saying the FEAR argument oft presented on DU to persuade Sanders/progressive voters HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #65

I don't understand your practical advice. Please give me an example. How.... Moonwalk Jul 2016 #86

I voted for Sanders in the primary thucythucy Jul 2016 #134

I think fear of a Trump presidency is a legitimate fear, and will motivate a lot of voters. tclambert Jul 2016 #56

FEAR will certainly motivate many voters. But that misses the point. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #67

If you don't fear trump you are stupid. Saying that we shouldn't point out the appropriateness Squinch Jul 2016 #84

+1 MichiganVote Jul 2016 #93

The Daisy ad worked loyalsister Jul 2016 #59

we need to go left on OFFENSE. reaganism is DYING. KILL IT DEAD NOW! pansypoo53219 Jul 2016 #61

I think a large part of the Democratic Party haven't even heard of the term offense. Scruffy1 Jul 2016 #90

Reaganism is dying? tk2kewl Jul 2016 #137

Vote how u want ,,,, just Cryptoad Jul 2016 #64

Fear tactics are used in effort to control what people will do. I reject those efforts. CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #66

Fear can be manipulative. It can also be legitimate HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #68

You still don't get it. No one is trying to persuade Sanders voters. Sanders voters have already Squinch Jul 2016 #135

How 'bout some examples.... heresAthingdotcom Jul 2016 #69

I'll let people speak for themselves... HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #73

Fear of Trump is legitimate. baldguy Jul 2016 #70

I totally agree! nt arthritisR_US Jul 2016 #75

Progressives do not try and divide people into groups to be monitored and yelled at. Rex Jul 2016 #72

Why are the long-time Hillary supporters so scared now? nt ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #77

Uh, because crazy people are on TV endorsing an even crazier Trump person?? MichiganVote Jul 2016 #79

This thead is about Trump supporters Democat Jul 2016 #100

Fear has done it for me. AirmensMom Jul 2016 #87

Currently, there's a supreme court opening and 3 justices are between 77 and 82 years old. ecstatic Jul 2016 #88

It's been the Third Way strategy ever since Bill Clinton. n/t brentspeak Jul 2016 #92

How do you define progressive? GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #94

+1 MichiganVote Jul 2016 #95

Let's use is as Sanders supporters do this was motivated by a FEAR thread to them HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #99

Good post Raine Jul 2016 #96

If "progressives" are meh about a Trump win, I question their political self-labeling. Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #97

Those who like Trump better than Clinton are not progressive Democat Jul 2016 #98

No more flawed than the polemic of FEAR directed at Sanders supporters. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #101

I think Kpete's post summed it up perfectly etherealtruth Jul 2016 #102

I too believe Trump is the worst republican candidate in their history HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #103

i have posted throughout the thread that my fear of a Trump presidency is my motivating factor etherealtruth Jul 2016 #105

Yes, fear works on some, it always has and always will. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #106

It has built Trumps n/t etherealtruth Jul 2016 #109

Yes, but conistent with the political research, the Trump supporters are quite conservative. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #115

Its calculated fear mongering on the right .... etherealtruth Jul 2016 #127

Fear leads to hate, and we don't want to be like them. modem77 Jul 2016 #113

IMO, fear leads to a desire to reduce fear, even when fear is understandable. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #116

Good post. ms liberty Jul 2016 #104

Who Is Doing That? ProfessorGAC Jul 2016 #136

Exactly n2doc Jul 2016 #107

Let's be honest: Any remaining "progressive" holdouts aren't going to be swayed by anything we say. Skinner Jul 2016 #108

I am not at all sure that's true. I think that's a great excuse for discarding any interest in them HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #111

Salesmen also fail when they waste their time trying to sell to someone who isn't persuadable. Skinner Jul 2016 #119

Maybe your message doesn't belong in this thread but over in that FEAR-suasion thread HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #122

I tend to think that my post fits in either thread. Skinner Jul 2016 #128

Exhibit A suggests a whole lot of DU members disagree ... Scuba Jul 2016 #110

You've ignored and dismissed every prior effort to be positive, though. BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #117

No one is asking you to placate anyone. Certainly not the people you are committed to demean. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #121

The purpose of your post is that you want attention, and I've wasted enough here already. BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #123

Interesting, you're a mind reader, too. HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #124

Is Trump -REALLY- more scary than the horrible, murderous, militant defenders of racist apartheid ? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #120

If the Germans of the1930s DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #125

To people who address passive aggressive open letters rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #126

Is expressing fear of a fear-mongering politician fear-mongering itself? pampango Jul 2016 #130

Couch it however you like. No need fo fear or kumbayas either whatthehey Jul 2016 #131

People are reacting to the speech last night. alarimer Jul 2016 #132

Is there a litmus test for Dems vs Progressive??? laureloak Jul 2016 #133

Anyone who starts off an OP BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #139