General Discussion

OneTenthofOnePercent

(6,268 posts)

73. And what actions would be on trial?

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:47 PM

Jun 2012

Perhaps the biker was merely approaching the vehicle to discuss any vents with the driver... was the impending physical assault obvious and imminent to the degree that it would trigger a retreat? Lots of people exchange heated words without throwing punches.

If there is no legal duty to retreat, then there is no crime.
There is certainly no duty to inform somebody assaulting you that you are armed.
If the motorist was being physically assaulted, then he has a right to defend himself.

Just what do you think he should be on trial for Hoyt? What laws were broken? C'mon Hilsman, you've been to law school... what precisely would be on trial. Clearly, the PD and friggin' DA don't feel they can win a case against the driver. Surely you can cite their erroneous nature of their conclusion.

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Man shot in road rage upset that prosecutor won’t file charges [View all] proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 OP

Maybe Randall should have raps Jun 2012 #1

Since you are new; greiner3 Jun 2012 #94

Ummm.. dubient Jun 2012 #97

I think so and I think he hoped like I do that the first commenter Maraya1969 Jun 2012 #139

There's a lot of people out there that need anger managment class. L0oniX Jun 2012 #140

That is a very realistic point of view. FarPoint Jun 2012 #156

Hear hear. All road rage will get you is dead - from a heart attack if not from being shot. yellowcanine Jun 2012 #205

Another reason to reconsider these type gun laws. Hoyt Jun 2012 #2

Lessons learned: stay on your bike and don't assault someone first. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #3

I'm mystified by this notion alcibiades_mystery Jun 2012 #4

Over 700 people a year are murdered by "hands, fists or feet" hack89 Jun 2012 #13

I get your point alcibiades_mystery Jun 2012 #31

I am now a 50 year old man with physical disablities hack89 Jun 2012 #35

From what I read in article, guy could have driven off. I think prosecutor nailed it. Hoyt Jun 2012 #38

The guy on the bike made the choice to violently assault someone. hack89 Jun 2012 #43

Still could have driven off. And it doesn't sound like the shooter was "beaten" close to death. Hoyt Jun 2012 #44

And you know for a fact that he could have driven away? Show me. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #46

Read the article, bike was behind him. And driver left the scene of the shooting after he shot him. Hoyt Jun 2012 #49

He left because he didn't know it the guys wife SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #53

I don't care why he left, he did. Should have done it before pulling his gun. And he shouldn't Hoyt Jun 2012 #56

Your were not there Hoyt SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #59

Neither were you. DA said he thinks it is wrong, but he has no choice under state's gun laws. Hoyt Jun 2012 #63

Did you even read the article? SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #70

This is what he said, if you read to the bottom of the article: Hoyt Jun 2012 #72

In this situation SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #78

It's the law in MO. Car is same as house. If someone unlawfully enters, you are allowed Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #143

Yes ...we all should wait until we are seconds away from dying before using a gun. L0oniX Jun 2012 #147

Yeah, I guess alcibiades_mystery Jun 2012 #45

Not everyone is into macho feats of physical violence like you are. hack89 Jun 2012 #50

I agree SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #55

Possessing and pulling a gun when you can drive away is also a "macho" action. Hoyt Jun 2012 #64

Bullshit SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #71

How come the biker didn't ride off? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #186

Eh, I can see both positions as having an element of macho swagger to them alcibiades_mystery Jun 2012 #65

I do not share your perverted sense of fairness. hack89 Jun 2012 #68

I don't share the extremely low value you place on human life alcibiades_mystery Jun 2012 #114

My life is more important then the guy trying to kill me. hack89 Jun 2012 #117

That is an excellent way to describe both positions. jp11 Jun 2012 #84

I'm in the same boat, EXCEPT FrodosPet Jun 2012 #127

I have loved ones that depend on me hack89 Jun 2012 #131

Why should you gamble that your injuries be minor? Maraya1969 Jun 2012 #141

In my concealed carry class SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #146

You could do that with pepper spray. You don't have to kill Maraya1969 Jun 2012 #148

Pepper spray doesn't always work SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #149

Wow I would sit and think about your views on human life if I were you. Maraya1969 Jun 2012 #171

Thats utter bullshit SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #175

So if I understand correctly sarisataka Jun 2012 #177

I would sit and think about what could happen with a visually impaired driver... Clames Jun 2012 #194

Pepper Spray would have worked. But not "macho" enough for gun culture. Hoyt Jun 2012 #150

Why Hoyt SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #154

+1 sadbear Jun 2012 #158

If he used pepper spray he likely would not have been able to drive off sarisataka Jun 2012 #151

I'd rather my child experience a little pepper spray sadbear Jun 2012 #159

You have apparently sarisataka Jun 2012 #160

I have and wasn't scarred for life sadbear Jun 2012 #161

First time I have heard sarisataka Jun 2012 #163

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #162

It takes a trial to figure those things out sadbear Jun 2012 #164

And you have no idea how our justice system work SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #165

I'm the one who doesn't understand our justice system? sadbear Jun 2012 #168

Are you really that obtuse? SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #170

I have nothing against people defending themselves sadbear Jun 2012 #172

Ok your right SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #176

Exactly. Right on target. Hoyt Jun 2012 #166

No - I want them incapable of hurting me hack89 Jun 2012 #178

I'm a small woman Aerows Jun 2012 #21

I'm mystified by the idea that you have some right to beat up a 65 y.o. man in public. Romulox Jun 2012 #29

A blow to the head can kill you SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #36

Don't initiate violence 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #62

Where do you get the idea that it's permissible to go around punching people? JVS Jun 2012 #77

um, somebody just punched a child rapist to death magical thyme Jun 2012 #85

Well said. SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #89

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2012 #101

+1000000 L0oniX Jun 2012 #142

It's not like TV! 1 hit can kill ...expecially if it knocks someone over to the ground... L0oniX Jun 2012 #134

Espicially if the person getting punched SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #135

I'm a female Dorian Gray Jun 2012 #199

The motorcyclist deserved to be shot.. Johnyawl Jun 2012 #5

The driver of the car almost ran the motoryclist's wife off the road do to careless driving. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #6

Not according to the prosecutor. hack89 Jun 2012 #79

I'm surprised more hasn't been said about the motorcyclist's wife KansDem Jun 2012 #112

If you deliberately try to drive my wife, friend or myself off the road with your car, MadHound Jun 2012 #7

sounds like an argument for stand your ground laws. leftyohiolib Jun 2012 #14

Sound more like a case for the prosecutor to do his job, MadHound Jun 2012 #19

Right On bahrbearian Jun 2012 #24

big bad motorcyclist who "had it coming". WOW the prosecutor said that? leftyohiolib Jun 2012 #27

This idiot DID have it coming. He confronted the driver. And got his dumb ass shot.... Logical Jun 2012 #123

I do not see where it is claimed sarisataka Jun 2012 #86

Where in the hell do you see "deliberately" in this story. It was a mistake.... Logical Jun 2012 #121

Ugh. Sick of the gun humping cowards. If you are gonna get violent, use your damn fists, like men. phleshdef Jun 2012 #15

Some of us are no Meiko Jun 2012 #23

Then don't be trying to run people off the road. phleshdef Jun 2012 #26

I remember reading the story SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #42

I always try to be careful Meiko Jun 2012 #52

Yes, living in NYC I rarely drive anymore, but when I lived in Florida this happened a lot stevenleser Jun 2012 #81

Preach that horse shit to a woman Spoonman Jun 2012 #69

+1 L0oniX Jun 2012 #138

Oh right, because attempting rape is the same thing as a road rage induced squabble. phleshdef Jun 2012 #180

YOUR "horse shit" of "false equivalancy" Spoonman Jun 2012 #183

This entire thread is about a road rage incident. phleshdef Jun 2012 #191

Oh ...so using fists is what a real man does huh? L0oniX Jun 2012 #136

I am a scrawny little dude. I'm 5'9 125 lbs. phleshdef Jun 2012 #181

Your choice SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #184

You don't have to give a flying fuck. It doesn't change the fact that its cowardice. phleshdef Jun 2012 #190

If thats what makes you sleep better at night SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #192

I don't believe carrying a concealed weapon makes someone a coward. phleshdef Jun 2012 #201

Nice reframe. L0oniX Jun 2012 #187

Is that the best you got? I guess I better back off before you try to shoot me. phleshdef Jun 2012 #189

I wouldn't have rolled my window down in the first place Major Nikon Jun 2012 #197

Maybe they're both idiots ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #8

Bingo. Bake Jun 2012 #18

+1 proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #39

Absolutely. jp11 Jun 2012 #54

"...the motorcyclist first reached into his car and punched him...." slackmaster Jun 2012 #9

More details, MadHound Jun 2012 #10

deliberately? the driver wasnt very smart in revealing that leftyohiolib Jun 2012 #11

There were witnesses who said it looked like a deliberate action MadHound Jun 2012 #12

so deliberately is just hearsay or opinion leftyohiolib Jun 2012 #16

No, actually there are witnesses, MadHound Jun 2012 #17

no witness could state, as a fact, what the intentions of the driver were. there are alot of people leftyohiolib Jun 2012 #20

As lawyers like to frequently state... MicaelS Jun 2012 #32

Link? proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #40

Where are you getting this? Dr. Strange Jun 2012 #185

The proper response is to call the police, then. You don't get to beat people in revenge. Romulox Jun 2012 #30

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that it was a deliberate attempt to run the woman off slackmaster Jun 2012 #37

The prosecutor appears to disagree with you hack89 Jun 2012 #76

According to some meat head morons he should have been man enough to punch the biker back ....pffft L0oniX Jun 2012 #137

Right and Wrong in road rage in crazy times? ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #22

Sounds like a toss up....all the more reason to be humble ileus Jun 2012 #25

The motorcyclist is angry because he brought fists to a gun fight. nt Javaman Jun 2012 #28

looks like the guy in the car was in the right belcffub Jun 2012 #33

I don't like the idea of not bringing charges at all treestar Jun 2012 #34

Exactly. Hoyt Jun 2012 #41

Bullshit SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #47

I'm leaning in that direction myself proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #57

Whether it is clear or not treestar Jun 2012 #110

Fair question SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #118

It will be interesting if Randall tries to file a civil suit treestar Jun 2012 #179

I don't think he can SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #182

That sounds like the Fla. law treestar Jun 2012 #193

This is MO SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #195

The DA should have let a jury decide. sadbear Jun 2012 #120

What bullshit SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #122

What do you have against juries? sadbear Jun 2012 #124

What part of no law was broken? SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #125

"The elderly man was in fear of his life..." sadbear Jun 2012 #126

No its not SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #128

"How can you have a trial if no laws were violated?" sadbear Jun 2012 #129

The police and DA both determined, after an investigation with plenty of SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #130

I hope no one shoots you... sadbear Jun 2012 #132

I hope not either SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #133

It happens all the time - that's why they write laws in the first place hack89 Jun 2012 #80

My parents live in this county justiceischeap Jun 2012 #48

No your not all good SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #51

Provoke them how? By sitting in the car with your wife and grandson? Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2012 #58

Especially an elderly person SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #61

Laying a gun on your lap and shooting someone when you can drive away, deserves at least trial. Hoyt Jun 2012 #66

And what actions would be on trial? OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #73

That's the problem 1/10, law allows one with a gun to shoot people when they could have left. Hoyt Jun 2012 #74

Your really flailing here Hoyt SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #83

Oh, so now you can shoot an unarmed man and say you didn't know if he were armed? Hoyt Jun 2012 #87

Once again Hoyt SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #92

The motorcyclist could have driven off too. Kaleva Jun 2012 #91

And he should have, but that doesn't give a man with a gun the right to shoot an unarmed person Hoyt Jun 2012 #96

Stick around until he gets so tired from punching that he collapses in exhaustion? Cave_Johnson Jun 2012 #98

And don't shoot unarmed people who may have "punched" once (and that is in question). Hoyt Jun 2012 #104

So your true colors finally come out , eh, Hoyt? SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #106

How many times should I get beaten before I am allowed to defend myself? Cave_Johnson Jun 2012 #111

In this situation roll up windows, mash the accelerator and leave. Hoyt Jun 2012 #115

You got one thing right... Cave_Johnson Jun 2012 #116

One thing about Hoyt SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #119

The fact that people carry guns scares criminals and big mussel bound fist users ...and L0oniX Jun 2012 #145

The anti gun agenda is obvious ...all over DU. L0oniX Jun 2012 #144

How big was he? Do you know? Hoyt Jun 2012 #152

Alot bigger than the elderly man SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #155

How do you know that? Gun shooter did something immoral. Hoyt Jun 2012 #169

Gun ownership is not my concern. Gun toting and this case is. Hoyt Jun 2012 #153

You really are something else SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #157

People will recognize "your agenda" at some point. Hoyt Jun 2012 #167

Ha Ha Ha thats funny Hoyt SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #174

Perhaps he did not realize the guy would be assaulting him. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #103

Well if that were the assumption, why did driver/shooter pull his gun and place it in his lap first? Hoyt Jun 2012 #105

I can't say... Personally, I just keep mine in the open between the two front seats. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #107

Poor tactical choice to assault older people. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #67

What do you mean this guy isn't into macho crap -- he carried and pulled a gun first when he could Hoyt Jun 2012 #75

Nice job of totally mis-representing the facts there Hoyt SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #93

What did I misrepresent? Rather than leaving, driver pulled his gun before cyclist got to his car. Hoyt Jun 2012 #95

Apparently your not reading what I have wrote SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #99

This is a common misconceptoin I've seen you and many other anti's state... OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #100

Deep down I think he knows that SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #102

That's the weird part... Cave_Johnson Jun 2012 #113

I agree with the prosecutor's decision not to file charges rollin74 Jun 2012 #60

I don't feel any sympathy for the 49 year old at all. Kaleva Jun 2012 #82

Neither do I, and it just occurred to me that the subject line conveys a simple but obvious irony slackmaster Jun 2012 #109

He should spit on the DA and punch him n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #88

Coming up #6 on Shocking American Shoot Outs....! Evasporque Jun 2012 #90

“But for the grace of God, I would be a dead man,” JVS Jun 2012 #108

"when any silly driving situation turns into a shooting?" flvegan Jun 2012 #173

I hate to say it, but Randell should just be thankful he's alive Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #188

we don't have all the details dsc Jun 2012 #196

It may be the law, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around that sadbear Jun 2012 #200

Hitting someone one can kill or severely injure them. hack89 Jun 2012 #202

We're talking about someone sitting in their car getting hit by someone standing outside of it. sadbear Jun 2012 #203

Google "one punch kills man" and this is a sample of what you get hack89 Jun 2012 #204

Keep your hands on the handbars or on wrapped around the steering wheel and there Raine Jun 2012 #198