General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

133. No, this isn't about "choice". People are free to send their kids to private school; they're just

Fri Aug 5, 2016, 04:41 AM

Aug 2016

not free to divert their tax dollars away from the public endeavour of collective education, to pay for it.

"that's not fair"! you say. Bull. Paying for public education is the responsibility of the entire public, whether they have kids or not, because collectively we as a society have decided that the education of children is a public good.

You may notice I have italicized that word, education. There's a reason for that. Because education doesn't just mean "teaching kids any old stuff", it means imparting knowledge (as well as instructing in the ability to reason and critically think)...

Knowledge, as in, facts. Evidence-based truth.

"School choice" is a misnomer, a ruse designed by people who don't want their taxes to pay to teach children pesky scientific facts like, yes, all life on Earth evolved over the past 4 billion years or so.

People who want to teach their children that the Earth was created in six days 4,000 years ago by a magic invisible being in the sky, and that Jesus rode a dinosaur, are free to do so--- however, they are not free to divert funds from the collective endeavour of educating the next generation, because teaching kids nonsense instead of scientific fact is not education.

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Why is school choice not a Democratic issue? [View all] Doctor Who Aug 2016 OP

Hey doctor who madokie Aug 2016 #1

Sorry we disagree. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #5

Its offensive to me madokie Aug 2016 #6

The goal is ALL schools be good and ALL Hortensis Aug 2016 #13

Charter schools madokie Aug 2016 #20

Yup. But any government commitment to serving Hortensis Aug 2016 #27

Yup madokie Aug 2016 #33

Which part do you factually disagree with? TipTok Aug 2016 #131

for profit doesn't mean better, do some research. elehhhhna Aug 2016 #76

Sigh..charter schools in Philly are controlled and chartered by the school msanthrope Aug 2016 #43

You also have the option of moving heaven and earth to improve the existing schools LanternWaste Aug 2016 #2

My "narrative"? I'm simply asking a question. NT. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #14

Charter schools have little if any oversight dlwickham Aug 2016 #3

Good point.. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #10

How do charter schools do thucythucy Aug 2016 #26

At least in NC charter schools just accept all applicants Lee-Lee Aug 2016 #68

but then if a kid they wind up taking is disabled, a trouble maker, or just lousy as a student dsc Aug 2016 #80

I think the standards for expelling them are the same as regular schools Lee-Lee Aug 2016 #97

you are wrong on both counts dsc Aug 2016 #98

This is what I've heard thucythucy Aug 2016 #99

On the nose dlwickham Aug 2016 #71

In Rhode Island, charter schools are public schools and cannot pick and choose students. hack89 Aug 2016 #115

Charter schools mercuryblues Aug 2016 #39

Actually radical noodle Aug 2016 #54

Without good teachers the kids are screwed dlwickham Aug 2016 #69

You may need that suit! redstatebluegirl Aug 2016 #102

Thank you to everyone for their spirited response. Great, fair debate is my favorite part of DU. NT. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #124

Could it be that a strong public school system is one of the foundation stones of American ideals? 63splitwindow Aug 2016 #4

and anyone advocating for anything else madokie Aug 2016 #8

Here's ten reasons why... SticksnStones Aug 2016 #7

thanks......the two best reasons, IMO, from your excellent, concise link: Gabi Hayes Aug 2016 #108

Very good link and I thank you too. Jim Beard Aug 2016 #135

My tax dollars should not go to line the pockets of the rich at the expense Exilednight Aug 2016 #9

Many private "academies" popped up in the '60s to evade school desegregation. 63splitwindow Aug 2016 #11

to be 100% honest, I send my children to private school. Exilednight Aug 2016 #23

Do taxpayers pay via vouchers or is the school TOTALLY privately funded? 63splitwindow Aug 2016 #25

it's completely privately funded. There are kids there on scholarship, but those Exilednight Aug 2016 #40

That is OK as long as you pay the same taxes you would if your children went to public school. 63splitwindow Aug 2016 #42

White flight MattBaggins Aug 2016 #24

The problem is the schools suck Travis_0004 Aug 2016 #92

Competition Ms. Yertle Aug 2016 #63

That's not the teachers fault. that's the fault of the community for failing Exilednight Aug 2016 #94

It's not all or nothing... TipTok Aug 2016 #132

The ability to choose the school one attends should be reserved for those who can afford it. hughee99 Aug 2016 #12

Dr. Who - Welcome to DU... and I'll politely explain our opinion of charter schools groundloop Aug 2016 #15

Thanks groundloop. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #21

Um...not the opinion of many PA DUers who understand that the Philly charter system is msanthrope Aug 2016 #51

yeah but what happens when a kid doesn't pass muster in one of those schools dsc Aug 2016 #81

Not just PA DUers. Lots of people think charter schools are fine and dandy. They're wrong. kcr Aug 2016 #113

It is possible to support both charter and public schools hack89 Aug 2016 #117

No, it's not. kcr Aug 2016 #119

The voters of Rhode Island disagree with you. hack89 Aug 2016 #120

I don't care if the voters in RI disagree with me kcr Aug 2016 #121

All I can say is that charters are popular and demand for them is high. hack89 Aug 2016 #122

You can send your kids to all charter schools are r private schools you want world wide wally Aug 2016 #16

Do what my parents did - DURHAM D Aug 2016 #17

Really, you shouldn't have to move to good schools. groundloop Aug 2016 #18

I agree. Fund all schools but there are obstacles. DURHAM D Aug 2016 #28

Fear of compromising with something too distant. Festivito Aug 2016 #19

People are pro-choice on some things, anti-choice on other things The2ndWheel Aug 2016 #22

Unless more and more people are a part of it. Well, yeah. kcr Aug 2016 #116

No, this isn't about "choice". People are free to send their kids to private school; they're just Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #133

We need to spend tax money on public schools. By not voting for school taxes and bonds upaloopa Aug 2016 #29

Actually---in Philly, they do. Philly charters are district granted and overseen, and are by msanthrope Aug 2016 #46

Public taxes should not be used to fund procon Aug 2016 #30

That's why school choice isn't a Democratic issue, right there. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2016 #31

"School choice" is fucking bullshit. hunter Aug 2016 #32

Philadelphia charter schools are filled with poor POC. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #35

"POC" hunter Aug 2016 #55

Right, let's not do anything till the old system is fixed. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #72

Please proceed, sir. hunter Aug 2016 #75

That last post may have been out of line.... Doctor Who Aug 2016 #86

hunter, k&r saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #50

Charter schools and disabled students bluedye33139 Aug 2016 #34

It's lottery pick in Philly. nt msanthrope Aug 2016 #49

You're not from around these parts, are ya, friend? Stinky The Clown Aug 2016 #36

so suck it up, send your kid to a failing school.. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #37

Good. Now don't lose it. Stinky The Clown Aug 2016 #38

That's right wing rhetoric. There's no such thing Warpy Aug 2016 #127

you'd find a more receptive audience at the Freak Republic Skittles Aug 2016 #130

I am. And I'm kinda surprised you haven't taken the time to study the Philly model msanthrope Aug 2016 #53

Are you in the right place? renie408 Aug 2016 #41

I think so... Doctor Who Aug 2016 #44

I think your views are at odds with the majority of Democrats renie408 Aug 2016 #58

You will note the ignorance on this thread about the nature of charters in Philly.... msanthrope Aug 2016 #45

But it's a fucking lottery... hunter Aug 2016 #66

Exactly---you can't use your influence, or otherwise game the system to get msanthrope Aug 2016 #67

Our nation deserves better than that. hunter Aug 2016 #73

I don't disagree. But the problem is that you cannot expect parents who must educate msanthrope Aug 2016 #77

Perhaps we should have a lottery for Social Security or Medicare. hunter Aug 2016 #106

Again......I don't disagree. But schools are local. There's the rub. nt msanthrope Aug 2016 #109

Wonder what would happen........ MyOwnPeace Aug 2016 #90

What would happen if the MIC was solely supported by property taxes? hunter Aug 2016 #107

We moved (at great expense) to an area with better schools for our children. Throd Aug 2016 #47

Like the Obama family, I send my kid to private school. aikoaiko Aug 2016 #48

I did the same thing ripcord Aug 2016 #88

It takes more money out of public schools and makes them even worse. onecaliberal Aug 2016 #52

Since you don't have kids, and have never had any direct experience frazzled Aug 2016 #56

Because I live in Philly and watch the news. Doctor Who Aug 2016 #65

You believe everything you hear in the news? frazzled Aug 2016 #70

Jim Gardner isn't telling me the facts? Doctor Who Aug 2016 #78

so, pretty much the same info stream as the donald . . . . n/t annabanana Aug 2016 #134

Good post. :thumbsup: Orrex Aug 2016 #110

Better to ask why the Philly schools suck and what can be done to fix it. n/t lumberjack_jeff Aug 2016 #57

because "school choice" is a way to funnel public school funds to religious institutions, basically. Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #59

Exactly. GreenPartyVoter Aug 2016 #64

+1 JoePhilly Aug 2016 #79

You're late to the party. Starry Messenger Aug 2016 #60

Hi, Starry! Here's a link to all the data on schools... YvonneCa Aug 2016 #82

Oh yeah, love her. Starry Messenger Aug 2016 #96

Hey misanthrope, you sound local... Doctor Who Aug 2016 #61

Be careful what you wish for meadowlark5 Aug 2016 #62

^^^THIS^^^ is where choice takes you:choosing who gets rich on your tax dollars lindysalsagal Aug 2016 #87

I choose better public schools rocktivity Aug 2016 #74

In some large districts, they are experimenting with choice among public schools. aikoaiko Aug 2016 #83

most of us support our public schools MFM008 Aug 2016 #84

Or, even better, LWolf Aug 2016 #85

In Maryland the teachers in the charter schools belong to the same teacher's union as everyone else. Vattel Aug 2016 #91

They belong to the same union. LWolf Aug 2016 #93

I don't think smaller classes are needed everywhere, by the way, which would cost tons. Vattel Aug 2016 #95

Wow. LWolf Aug 2016 #104

You might want to look at an HBO documentary about a Baltimore public high school Vattel Aug 2016 #112

It's union busting JohnnyRingo Aug 2016 #89

That's exactly what it's about. kcr Aug 2016 #118

Where I live, this has busted unions and made public schools worse and all schools much less diverse gollygee Aug 2016 #100

Because good schools ARE a Democratic issue. ALL schools should be treated equally. tonyt53 Aug 2016 #101

Because the Democrats' issue is PUBLIC schools, not charter schools. no_hypocrisy Aug 2016 #103

Another reason: There are disabled and other special learning needs children in our schools. Ilsa Aug 2016 #105

If I lived in a terrible school district.... Adrahil Aug 2016 #111

because most of the choices are private schools which librechik Aug 2016 #114

I'll boil it down for you: It's a long-term RW ploy to destroy the public school system.... Hekate Aug 2016 #123

It's taking money away from public schools. Then when the student finds out the charter school suck B Calm Aug 2016 #125

Because it defunds public schools. mahina Aug 2016 #126

Leaving aside the not insignificant problems with charter schools. Ms. Toad Aug 2016 #128

no charter schools runaway hero Aug 2016 #129