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In reply to the discussion: Should students be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance & hold hand over heart? [View all]JustinL
(722 posts)88. Hell no. This was settled by the Supreme Court 73 years ago.
From Justice Jackson's opinion in West Virginia State Bd. of Educ. v Barnette, 319 U. S. 624, 640-642 (1943):
Struggles to coerce uniformity of sentiment in support of some end thought essential to their time and country have been waged by many good, as well as by evil, men. Nationalism is a relatively recent phenomenon, but, at other times and places, the ends have been racial or territorial security, support of a dynasty or regime, and particular plans for saving souls. As first and moderate methods to attain unity have failed, those bent on its accomplishment must resort to an ever-increasing severity. As governmental pressure toward unity becomes greater, so strife becomes more bitter as to whose unity it shall be. Probably no deeper division of our people could proceed from any provocation than from finding it necessary to choose what doctrine and whose program public educational officials shall compel youth to unite in embracing. Ultimate futility of such attempts to compel coherence is the lesson of every such effort from the Roman drive to stamp out Christianity as a disturber of its pagan unity, the Inquisition, as a means to religious and dynastic unity, the Siberian exiles as a means to Russian unity, down to the fast failing efforts of our present totalitarian enemies. Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
It seems trite but necessary to say that the First Amendment to our Constitution was designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings. There is no mysticism in the American concept of the State or of the nature or origin of its authority. We set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. Authority here is to be controlled by public opinion, not public opinion by authority.
The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure, but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds. We can have intellectual individualism and the rich cultural diversities that we owe to exceptional minds only at the price of occasional eccentricity and abnormal attitudes. When they are so harmless to others or to the State as those we deal with here, the price is not too great. But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
It seems trite but necessary to say that the First Amendment to our Constitution was designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings. There is no mysticism in the American concept of the State or of the nature or origin of its authority. We set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. Authority here is to be controlled by public opinion, not public opinion by authority.
The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure, but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds. We can have intellectual individualism and the rich cultural diversities that we owe to exceptional minds only at the price of occasional eccentricity and abnormal attitudes. When they are so harmless to others or to the State as those we deal with here, the price is not too great. But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
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Should students be required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance & hold hand over heart? [View all]
True Dough
Aug 2016
OP
The "Pledge" can be challenged. When Congress passed, and Eisenhower signed, the adding of words.
tonyt53
Aug 2016
#8
Albeit off topic, absolutely the truth. It requires/activates brain functions. Same with learning a
libdem4life
Aug 2016
#66
No, all should be required to at least stand quietly & respectfully while the class does.
WillowTree
Aug 2016
#19
True. Heaven forbid that kids should be taught to show respect for the Country they live in.
WillowTree
Aug 2016
#33
well, they can't be. But I agree they shouldn't disrupt other people doing it.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2016
#76
This country respects freedom of religion or from it surprise ! Jehovah witness etc are allowed here
Person 2713
Aug 2016
#64
And what is "the Country"? Is it the rocks? The dirt? The map? The road system? Flag design?
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2016
#75
Heaven forbid children should be forced to participate in a forced nationalistic ritual.
July
Sep 2016
#103
Absolutely not. Loyalty oaths are the antithesis of what it means to be an American.
Oneironaut
Aug 2016
#47
it was passed by a republican legislature and signed by a republican governor
dlwickham
Aug 2016
#61
Sure, how better to inculcate respect for our constitutional values of freedom of speech/conscience
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2016
#72