I just cannot see forcing a woman to reveal a part of her body she is not comfortable revealing as

[underahedgerow]

99. Think of it this way: If wearing said garment and being modest was so incredibly important

to her, then why did she continue sitting on the beach, finally revealed in all her 'immodest' glory, rather than just leaving?

And yes, it takes a number of generations for the lower-income immigrants to integrate into society, or rather, in reality, to create their own societies, as is the case in Germany and the UK in particular. People fleeing from the middle eastern conflicts of the 60's haven't integrated into western societies in those countries; instead they've recreated their own neighborhoods and cultural identities, driving out everything they don't tolerate and living within their own sets of rules.

And it's not so much a stated and vocalized desire of the majority but an empirical observation. When workers are demanding that their employers allow them to adhere to their religious beliefs in the workplace, such as not selling pork or booze, that's evidence of trying to force other cultures into Islamic beliefs and trying to make it the norm rather than the exception.

Now public pools in Germany are being forced to have separate hours for females and males because males won't tolerate females and are being openly aggressive; it's a forced adaptation. The demands that pork be removed from public school lunch menus -- not to just be provided with an option, but totally removed -- is yet another sign.

Aside from the radical Islamic state crowing that 'europe is a cancer and islam is the answer' the proliferating actual population has little interest in adopting western ways, but rather forcing their own beliefs and cultural behaviors onto the people they now choose to live among. The ongoing and growing attacks on females throughout Europe show just how intolerant of western culture that the recent immigrants are. But it's not a new behavior! The systemic sexual abuse and exploitation of young, white females by islamic males goes back decades, and is only now being prosecuted. Hundreds of (that we know of) girls as young as 9 were repeatedly raped and abused by entire communities of islamic males in the UK, and it was ignored by the policing agencies, because it was considered 'racist' to even accuse these guys of this behavior.

Can islam take over is the whole question, and people assume that it's just not possible. I say it's not impossible. Is it a concerted effort, being vocalized and put on posters and on leaflets? Not literally, no. But the community behaviors show us otherwise. I've read recently that attacks on people wearing simple crosses on their necklaces are on the rise. This whole 'my god is better than your god' crap is getting out of hand.

The other question is can islam and democracy in general live side by side and in harmony? It doesn't appear possible without some radical alteration of one or the other. Consider that Democracy in its current form is barely 200 years old, while islam is a couple thousand years older. Local justice systems with large islamic populations are already dealing with the conflict of beliefs vs modern justice, and it's an uphill battle.

I think it's pretty effing important for the modern world to be completely intolerant of any culture that is regressive, especially in its treatment of other human beings; i.e., half the population.

Do we really want future generations to believe that it's acceptable for some people to treat half the population like dirt, just because they are females? Or that some people can treat others badly, because that's the religion they've chosen? Do we want anyone of any age, from anywhere to continue to believe that these behaviors are ok for some, but not for others?

Western societies and justice systems finally, and only recently have realized that males cannot beat their wives in private. the rape culture in the US is finally being talked about openly, and is becoming less acceptable (unless you're a white collegiate swimmer of course) and barely making inroads in the legal system as it is, but it IS making progress, thank goodness.

Tolerating any regressive behavior and cultural beliefs turns back the tides of social progress. It's one step forward and two steps back.

We have to decide which is more important and productive - and which is of greater benefit to all humankind:

Is it better to be 'tolerant' of harmful and regressive cultures and silly belief systems, than to protect modern, progressive, global thought processes that advance and protect the human spirit?

I know which one I choose. How to get there is a whole 'nuther episode.