General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

162. Apparently they're different. Maybe because that's their job or they can actually choose to not

Thu Aug 25, 2016, 03:23 PM

Aug 2016

wear those costumes, whereas it is a patriarchal system of oppression that mandates hijab (in order to make MEN more comfortable by not "tempting" them with "shameful" female flesh).

I don't know what justification they are using, or even how new these pictures are--but here's your very argument in pictorial form:

http://globalnews.ca/news/2903036/people-share-photos-of-nuns-on-the-beach-in-response-to-burkini-ban-in-france/

It's a hard job to even FIND a nun nowadays--they closed a lot of the convents and sold them off to pay for the child abuse of the priests. The few nuns I know these days wear ugly dresses in unfashionable patterns and cuts, equally ugly shoes, sensible cardigans, and crosses. They look like they asked a four year old to cut their hair, and then had it 'cleaned up' by a boot camp barber....I suppose the French could fine them, too, for being "unfashionable."

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I just cannot see forcing a woman to reveal a part of her body she is not comfortable revealing as [View all] redgreenandblue Aug 2016 OP

it is not enlightened. it is highly bigoted. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2016 #1

And offensive Dorian Gray Aug 2016 #72

honestly it's just mind boggling that liberals can support this. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2016 #73

It's terrible. Brickbat Aug 2016 #2

Liberal Isolationists and progressives are too often conflated and look nothing like one and other. NCTraveler Aug 2016 #3

I agree. Except for the face for identification purposes, Ilsa Aug 2016 #4

They could wear yoga pants, a large floppy hat and a long t shirt and get the same effect. MADem Aug 2016 #98

Thanks for the perspective. Ilsa Aug 2016 #130

Only it the yoga pants coordinate well. goldent Aug 2016 #172

Well of course--the French OWN style!!! nt MADem Aug 2016 #175

They could also wear a jazzy caftan or a nifty beach robe with that floppy hat. MADem Aug 2016 #174

I agree radical noodle Aug 2016 #5

So we have no business telling the French kiva Aug 2016 #68

I don't believe the French should ban clothing nor should we radical noodle Aug 2016 #70

They aren't going to take advice from us--or anyone else -- on their culture or their society. MADem Aug 2016 #102

Not going to tell the French how to live. But it still stinks... Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #181

Is this systemic sexual assault or being prudent and responsible packman Aug 2016 #6

4 male officers telling a woman what she can or can't wear? ck4829 Aug 2016 #16

And they're showing their calves! librarylu Aug 2016 #56

Prudent and responsible? jberryhill Aug 2016 #30

How is this 'prudent' or 'responsible'? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #33

Perhaps you missed-- packman Aug 2016 #85

I don't think taking revenge on a religion would be 'prudent' or 'responsible', however muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #114

So How Soon RobinA Aug 2016 #140

About 2,000 yrs. too late packman Aug 2016 #149

She could have left the beach, so she wasn�t really forced. Boudica the Lyoness Aug 2016 #84

I don't think it was France, but individual beaches including Cannes. randome Aug 2016 #7

I am completely against the ban. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #8

Why are pigs anymore filthy than any other animal and you can't clean a pig? Ohioblue22 Aug 2016 #9

For one, they eat cow shit. Literally. closeupready Aug 2016 #20

Doesn't it all go into a stomach and then broken down by acid. Ohioblue22 Aug 2016 #34

I don't know, but then why can't people eat crap if we have HCl in our stomachs, too? closeupready Aug 2016 #36

And somehow turn it into bacon. Travis_0004 Aug 2016 #60

Chickens also eat shit n/t snpsmom Aug 2016 #138

Because historically keeping pigs was a good way to get trichinosis. LeftyMom Aug 2016 #66

Misogynistic crap littlemissmartypants Aug 2016 #10

lol ! treestar Aug 2016 #26

France has made it quite clear MicaelS Aug 2016 #11

This makes it sound like they have no problem letting paranoia overwhelm their society though ck4829 Aug 2016 #14

They should be paranoid. After Charlie Hebdoe, the Nice attack, Marr Aug 2016 #77

Giving how France has suffered from MicaelS Aug 2016 #80

THIS eissa Aug 2016 #15

Not trying to thread jack, but just curious. What are their biggest complaints? smirkymonkey Aug 2016 #62

They hate it here eissa Aug 2016 #69

Thank you for filling me in. Very interesting. smirkymonkey Aug 2016 #97

Exactly! eissa Aug 2016 #100

You have my deepest sympathies.... MADem Aug 2016 #103

I Get Where You Are Coming From RobinA Aug 2016 #143

My cajun family was much the same TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2016 #151

That's not better than a state religion treestar Aug 2016 #25

Then why are there crosses on every mountaintop? jberryhill Aug 2016 #31

Actually they have gone after other religions MicaelS Aug 2016 #37

Right, they are a secular country. demosincebirth Aug 2016 #74

That's the law. The practice is quite different jberryhill Aug 2016 #154

I agree with their ban of the burka... awoke_in_2003 Aug 2016 #42

You are aware that in France MicaelS Aug 2016 #48

Are you serious? awoke_in_2003 Aug 2016 #50

Quite serious. n/t MicaelS Aug 2016 #51

Wow - I had no idea so I looked it up! DawgHouse Aug 2016 #58

That's at most pools - not the beach, rivers or lakes jberryhill Aug 2016 #156

First of all, that is simply not true jberryhill Aug 2016 #155

The trump-like factions of muslims migrating to Europe have stated over and over again underahedgerow Aug 2016 #45

I fail to see how wearing a "burquini" is a display of cultural and religious extremism. Chemisse Aug 2016 #65

Think of it this way: If wearing said garment and being modest was so incredibly important underahedgerow Aug 2016 #99

Why didn't she just leave the beach when ordered to by the uniformed representatives of the state? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #119

The "burkini" is not a religious garment anyway jberryhill Aug 2016 #157

The idea that "France" is not inclusive of Muslim women is the problem. LeftyMom Aug 2016 #67

To This Atheist RobinA Aug 2016 #142

DU loves right wing religious extremists Democat Aug 2016 #147

When you deny the bikini you deny all that is France. GOLGO 13 Aug 2016 #12

Since it was named for a U.S. bomb test site, Vive les Etats Unis! JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2016 #129

Pigs are not actually dirty animals. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2016 #13

I know pigs are not dirty. The point is that what meat is edible is entirely subjective. redgreenandblue Aug 2016 #19

Your reasoning is still problematic. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #27

Should conforming to the expectations of your community be punishable? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #35

Ah but is the kilt representing repression of half the world population? No. underahedgerow Aug 2016 #113

So forcing conformity to the socio-religious expectations of the majority of the country is fine muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #117

No, none of those things. What I expect is that if she wants to not wear a headscarf or underahedgerow Aug 2016 #124

OK, so your approach to public freedom is to mind-read what happened back at home muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #127

Yes in fact, I think it's appalling that women are forced by the rules that males invented to cover underahedgerow Aug 2016 #135

No, and I never so much as hinted that it should be. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #183

Yes. But this is just as true for not eating cats. No social conditioning exists in a vacuum. redgreenandblue Aug 2016 #39

Well, you did say that your father avoids pork PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2016 #49

He considers them dirty. I don't. To each their own. redgreenandblue Aug 2016 #118

Not to mention that pigs are difficult to "herd" and parasites in swine was a real problem for .... A HERETIC I AM Aug 2016 #21

France is an AGGRESSIVELY secular nation. MADem Aug 2016 #17

Maybe, but there is nothing progressive/liberal/enlightened about that. redgreenandblue Aug 2016 #22

There's no simple way to explain this without sounding flippant, and that is not my intent, MADem Aug 2016 #71

This right here sums it all up eissa Aug 2016 #86

It's because the European nations place such stock in their particular cultures and histories. MADem Aug 2016 #96

I sincerely appreciate your explanation of the French.... steve2470 Aug 2016 #171

I have a personal and visceral dislike of the whole concept of hijab, particularly the aggressive MADem Aug 2016 #173

And those who have interacted with women in the mid-east eissa Aug 2016 #178

Identification with the oppressor is quite common. It took Jimmy Carter pardoning Patty Hearst for MADem Aug 2016 #180

Forget it. On DU, progressives OWN muslim women's bodies. closeupready Aug 2016 #18

Burkas are oppression Calculating Aug 2016 #23

Yes, they are eissa Aug 2016 #28

yup Calculating Aug 2016 #32

so are high heels, bras, tight fitting clothing, wearing lipstick etc. Fresh_Start Aug 2016 #38

Those are also stupid and oppressive Calculating Aug 2016 #41

So you'd like to ban ties in public, once it's possible? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #46

Men must wear burkinis. Now. kwassa Aug 2016 #87

Women in America have CHOICE.... that's the difference davidn3600 Aug 2016 #76

So women in France shouldn't have the choice, and that makes things better how? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #120

Look at the picture in #6. The police get the choice of how much to cover up. muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #40

I think they are being very silly treestar Aug 2016 #24

As I said elsewhere in this thread, they could easily achieve the goal of "modesty" without MADem Aug 2016 #107

What about nuns? treestar Aug 2016 #146

Apparently they're different. Maybe because that's their job or they can actually choose to not MADem Aug 2016 #162

The Muslim women living in France are also choosing what to wear treestar Aug 2016 #164

No, no, no. Their husbands or fathers are choosing what they may wear. MADem Aug 2016 #167

See Mormons. Photographer Aug 2016 #29

Since the very idea of a "Burkini" is utterly ridiculous... AlbertCat Aug 2016 #43

+1,000 malaise Aug 2016 #44

Bottom line is that this woman is perfectly free to practice her religious beliefs in her home. underahedgerow Aug 2016 #47

its just crazy we care MFM008 Aug 2016 #52

About a CENTURY ago.....which was long enough, I'd venture! MADem Aug 2016 #109

Exactly what the Taliban do when they punish women who show any parts of their legs or hands lunatica Aug 2016 #53

What if you're trying to save them Calculating Aug 2016 #55

You only make it worse lunatica Aug 2016 #61

Totally agree. FXSTD Aug 2016 #54

American women don't go to work with their breast exposed because Zing Zing Zingbah Aug 2016 #57

I think the analogy is exactly right. Going topless is has rules against it, but many people have redgreenandblue Aug 2016 #115

No, it is not right. Zing Zing Zingbah Aug 2016 #132

No it's exactly wrong Lordquinton Aug 2016 #169

I just cannot see finding common cause with fundamentalists as an expression of progressiveness Sen. Walter Sobchak Aug 2016 #59

Superb post, I agree 100%. MicaelS Aug 2016 #75

So well said eissa Aug 2016 #78

+1 Marr Aug 2016 #79

This isn't our fight, anyway. We don't ban those dumb costumes. MADem Aug 2016 #108

Many on DU love right wing extremists Democat Aug 2016 #148

I think this is wrong. TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2016 #63

agreed with this but Younemeen Aug 2016 #158

I think face coverings should be against the law TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2016 #159

agreed Younemeen Aug 2016 #160

I agree in principle Warpy Aug 2016 #64

technically, it is done for the comfort of muslim men Skittles Aug 2016 #81

What's amazing is progressives supporting this form of religious oppression davidn3600 Aug 2016 #82

Thanks I thought for a second I was losing my mind Egnever Aug 2016 #83

We're here! eissa Aug 2016 #92

The cultural left has a pathological hatred of the west Sen. Walter Sobchak Aug 2016 #90

Some alleged "progressives" really love to tell other people what to do. Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #105

In what way does wearing a headscarf on a beach make someone else change their ways? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #121

I've seen burkinis at my local pool. Big deal. kwassa Aug 2016 #88

how nobel of them to tolerate the presence of their hosts in their homeland Sen. Walter Sobchak Aug 2016 #89

Yes, I would. You are correct. kwassa Aug 2016 #93

Not true everywhere.... davidn3600 Aug 2016 #95

Canada is a bastion of multiculturalism True Dough Aug 2016 #106

Oh, and I should add... True Dough Aug 2016 #110

+1. The amazing thing is that, in Europe, at least, Marr Aug 2016 #153

In the US it might be a private pool treestar Aug 2016 #165

I think your reasoning is flawed. kwassa Aug 2016 #177

K&R edible snails and frogs cost more than pork Jeffersons Ghost Aug 2016 #91

"systemic sexual assault" is 100% correct mwrguy Aug 2016 #94

"If women choose hijab..." Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #126

You could have stopped at "I just cannot see forcing a woman". That in itself is wrong. Rex Aug 2016 #101

I think people should be free to choose what to wear and what to do with their bodies. Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #104

I have spent much of my life living around muslims Sen. Walter Sobchak Aug 2016 #112

I agree with your point, but you bring up another problem in society Lordquinton Aug 2016 #111

Yes, that is what I was trying to say as well. Zing Zing Zingbah Aug 2016 #133

I see now, and I agree Lordquinton Aug 2016 #168

I am extremely antireligious Lunabell Aug 2016 #116

"Don't get raped." DetlefK Aug 2016 #122

I doubt that Muslim women asked the "Aryan savior" to come save them from their traditions. redgreenandblue Aug 2016 #123

Depends. Does Christianity demand that women cover up because men are sex-hungry animals? DetlefK Aug 2016 #125

... redgreenandblue Aug 2016 #131

If tradition does not generate equality, are we allowed to use laws to generate equality? DetlefK Aug 2016 #134

"Banning the Burkini might be the wrong tool, but something has to be done" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #137

My suggestion would be so "not wrong", it would be "wrong" again. DetlefK Aug 2016 #139

Colour me backwards but I don't like the idea of ANYONE being forcrd to expose themselves. Photographer Aug 2016 #128

I agree wholeheartedly about the law tymorial Aug 2016 #136

Plenty of "secularists" are just as bigoted and authoritarian as any religious fundamentalist. Odin2005 Aug 2016 #141

Who cares what people wear at the beach? alarimer Aug 2016 #144

I'm apparently missing something here. Who's "forcing" anyone to do anything in this situation? WillowTree Aug 2016 #145

You're not missing anything. It's a rather hyperbolic interpretation of the issue. randome Aug 2016 #150

I agree. LWolf Aug 2016 #152

Freedom for all! Bikinis for all! GOLGO 13 Aug 2016 #161

Both Saudi Arabia and France have become completely brain-damaged. backscatter712 Aug 2016 #163

In this DU poll today 80% of DUer's voted to leave burkina-wearing women alone. pampango Aug 2016 #166

I wonder if nuns are allowed at the beach. N/T dilby Aug 2016 #170

Again with the false equivalency eissa Aug 2016 #179

France is legally an eclusively secular state. Atheist, really. tirebiter Aug 2016 #176

If it's really that simple reorg Aug 2016 #182

See here, "forcing a woman" are the three words we should be most focused on in this situation. Rex Aug 2016 #184

As I asked earlier, who's forcing anyone to do anything in this situation? WillowTree Aug 2016 #185

Well in any situation, you should not force a women to do something against her will. Rex Aug 2016 #186

I agree. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that no one should be forced. WillowTree Aug 2016 #187