General Discussion

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)

4. Providing goods and services is incidental.

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 10:56 AM

Sep 2016

The primary goal is to enrich shareholders and executives. The capitalist structure proceeds from an unjust premice. This fact is demonstrated by the inequitable distribution of resources and the well-known concentration of wealth. Even in the wealthier countries, millions of people have inadequate access to basic services, like education and healthcare.

And that's on top of the fact, that the notion of creating 'wealth', stands directly at odds with the Laws of Thermodynamics. Economic activity (in fact, every occurrence in the universe), is a direct result of the conversion and dispersion of energy, which means you will never extract a surplus of energy or matter (wealth) from your Thermodynamic system.

The preposterous ideology that rationalizes capitalism, is not concerned in the least with issues of ethics, morality and justice. It is very clearly sociopathic in nature.

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Corporations are Vicious Sociopaths, made out of paper. "Regulations" are what protect us. [View all] ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 OP

I think that's a gross over generalization. Not every corporation is sociopathic. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #1

By design, corporations have two purposes and two purposes only: Orrex Sep 2016 #3

Name one thing that doesn't act that way. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #6

Gee, let me think. Orrex Sep 2016 #9

Parents will sacrifice the collective good for the good of their particular family. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #24

No, you're reading from the Libertarian playbook Orrex Sep 2016 #31

You're anthropomorphizing corporations. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #33

Nonsense. Orrex Sep 2016 #40

Corporations may be legal entities but the law itself is nothing but a construct. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #43

That is why corporations should have no rights Orrex Sep 2016 #45

If you owned a business would you rather lay-off 1,000 or lose so much money that the Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #46

I don't accept that either/or formulation Orrex Sep 2016 #49

If there is consumer demand why would a company Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #50

Why do you keep moving the goalposts? Orrex Sep 2016 #52

Teddy bears are also not sociopathic. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #56

Obviously you're mischaracterizing my argument Orrex Sep 2016 #65

You claim I'm engaging in a straw man argument but then go on to write 3 paragraphs Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #67

You don't know what you're talking about Orrex Sep 2016 #69

1. People should have the right to form corporations Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #71

Question.... not trying to be nosy.. but... clarice Sep 2016 #97

What if "The executive" in question risked everything to start his corporation?... oh wait.. clarice Sep 2016 #96

"tightly regulated and expressly granted privileges????" I think that that has been tried before... clarice Sep 2016 #95

The Supreme Court did THAT... n/t annabanana Sep 2016 #51

Assuming your interpretation of what transpired is correct Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #55

Providing goods and services is incidental. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #4

Economics isn't thermodynamics. Good grief. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #5

Yes it is. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #7

Please explain which economic system can overcome the laws of thermodynamics. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #8

What a ridiculous post. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #10

your theory makes no sense at all. mopinko Sep 2016 #14

The finality of the Laws of Thermodynamics ronnie624 Sep 2016 #15

oh i understand the law. mopinko Sep 2016 #16

The concept of money, ronnie624 Sep 2016 #19

Money is a marker used by parties to express value in an exhange of goods and services. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #22

But is has to have an accurate reflection of the absolute value ronnie624 Sep 2016 #42

That's one theory. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #44

Are you claiming that since energy cannot be created then any economic system Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #18

Expansion beyond the needs of the population is nonsense. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #20

"There is only just so much usable energy...available, strictly limited by human labor." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #21

I use as little as possible. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #23

Again: How much usuable energy is available? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #25

Logical and just distribution The2ndWheel Sep 2016 #26

So it's a given that a minority has more than they need, ronnie624 Sep 2016 #29

If it's a finite planet, choices get difficult The2ndWheel Sep 2016 #34

Your imputing moral guilt where none may exist. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #36

Is not the primary goal of any and all paid work to provide money LanternWaste Sep 2016 #35

No one needs money. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #41

You wouldn't have a electricity, computer, and internet without money. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #48

All of that stuff could theoretically exsist without money. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #58

"It plays no role in the conversion and dispersion of energy." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #59

Money is not essential to organization. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #61

Seeing as you have yet to quantify the amount of usable energy on Earth Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #62

It's the lack of collective will ronnie624 Sep 2016 #63

If you're so certain value is based on thermodynamic cost why can't you Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #64

I don't need to answer your questions ronnie624 Sep 2016 #68

"Everyone should have learned this in middle school." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #72

Everyone has heard that the Laws of Thermodynamics apply to all energy conversions. ronnie624 Sep 2016 #73

Okay, that last essay has no plan for converting to a thermodynamics based economy it's Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #78

re: "Providing goods and services is incidental." discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2016 #60

"We no more want government telling the economic engine what and how to produce" ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #12

Libertarianism in a nutshell. n/t ronnie624 Sep 2016 #13

That is a really bad example (for you) considering the misery the War on Drugs produces. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #17

There is a third alternative besides prohibition and letting capital act as ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #79

I disagree, respectfully. saidsimplesimon Sep 2016 #30

I made no statement in favor of deregulation. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #37

"not harming anyone" That's why we must have regulations, or who will stop them when they do harm? The Wielding Truth Sep 2016 #39

"They exist to make profits without being taxed as much as a company." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #47

^ This. Well said NC. nt clarice Sep 2016 #94

interesting is on the news this very moment...how to complain about a bank dembotoz Sep 2016 #2

I've worked for a big corporation for the past 7 years. Avalux Sep 2016 #11

Some regulations are stupid though. Blue laws, for example. closeupready Sep 2016 #27

Of course ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #77

Yes that is completely true. closeupready Sep 2016 #80

Which is why progressive countries function well with capitalist economies. They REGULATE them pampango Sep 2016 #28

UNregulated capitalism cannot succeed. elleng Sep 2016 #32

Careful, you will get an earful from the libertarians. Rex Sep 2016 #38

Well, you called that one right. Orrex Sep 2016 #70

Don't feel too bad, I did the same thing for over 10 years. Rex Sep 2016 #93

No, they're just moneymaking enterprises. Nt Dreamer Tatum Sep 2016 #53

The documentary deathrind Sep 2016 #54

What a bizarre world you live in. former9thward Sep 2016 #57

Take that sociopathic, profit-making entity DemocraticUnderground LLC, for example. Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #66

Are you saying that regulations don't exist and that the world is rainbows anyway? ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #75

He's saying your complaint about corporations, if consistently held, could be used to dismantle DU Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #81

that's stupid ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #82

So, like MSNBC, then. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #83

? ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #84

MSNBC is publicly traded, has a board of directors, and seeks to maximize profit. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #85

Yes. That is what I'm saying. ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #86

You seem to be deliberately missing my point ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #87

If you speak in over-broad generalizations and declare corporations sociopathic without Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #89

Right now, the corporations are policing themselves ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #90

"To the extent that we can wrest some of that decision making control away from them" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #91

The government is, essentially, us ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #92

"The government is, essentially, us" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #98

Take it easy, or you'll burst something ProfessorPlum Sep 2016 #99

So that's what's missing... CanSocDem Sep 2016 #100

You can lecture about theory all you want but at the end of the day Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #101

That's too short-sighted... CanSocDem Sep 2016 #102

Accounting for human nature is "crazy talk"? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #103

Excellent post BYJ439 Sep 2016 #74

Classic capitalism HerrKarlMarx Sep 2016 #76

Your language is perhaps a bit over the top, but in principal you've nailed it. Respectful Debate Sep 2016 #88