General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

39. I think it's good that schools like the U of C are making a firm committment to free inquiry

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 07:22 PM

Sep 2016

and open expression.

But honestly, there are a bajillion different ways to fuck up a kid, or a generation. I've been reading a lot of stuff about WWII lately and specifically how the brutal sorts of education philosophies in Imperial Japan and late 19th/early 20th century Germany produced a generation of (speaking broadly) empathically deficient psychopaths.

There was a lot of shit, when I was growing up, about "suck it up" and if you were getting your ass kicked on a daily basis by a bully or five, well, what were YOU doing to set them off?

Viewed in the context of how shit used to be, I'm not so sure "teaching everyone how special and unique they are" is really such a bad thing. It's certainly better than teaching them "shut up, eat the shit that is served to you, and if someone is giving you a hard time it's clearly your own fault"

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

234 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Is the rise of "safe spaces" bringing back the era of segregation? [View all] davidn3600 Sep 2016 OP

The fight was against imposed segregation loyalsister Sep 2016 #1

If you say so... davidn3600 Sep 2016 #3

Do you think forcing a black student to live next to a white nationalist is a good idea? loyalsister Sep 2016 #4

What proportion of whites at UCalLA are white nationalists? FBaggins Sep 2016 #14

I have no idea loyalsister Sep 2016 #20

Your comment, CrispyQ Sep 2016 #204

The audience existed before the media took that turn loyalsister Sep 2016 #207

I tell ya, it looks like the Chino prison yard these days Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2016 #21

The housing is already full with a waiting list FBaggins Sep 2016 #103

We're talking about 24 apartments here, a sweeping social phenomenon this is not. Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2016 #134

They will have to deal with them at some point in life davidn3600 Sep 2016 #15

So, do you a groups blacks confronting the KKK would have prevented the lynching of friends? loyalsister Sep 2016 #18

Except that's not happening here. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #25

So, we should wait until it happens? loyalsister Sep 2016 #27

If you're threatened by the mere presence of someone else's skin color Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #31

We don't punish people or treat them like pre-criminals because of the melanin content of their skin loyalsister Sep 2016 #36

You're the one arguing random white people are probably KKK. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #38

That is not what I argued and you know it loyalsister Sep 2016 #40

You're not arguing white people are the KKK, you're just arguing white people are racist. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #62

Racism does not require hate loyalsister Sep 2016 #68

And what system is it that the KKK and enablers wish to preserve? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #69

The one in which white people have significant advantages loyalsister Sep 2016 #70

You mean to keep "those other people" out. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #74

Nice try loyalsister Sep 2016 #75

Coming up with elaborate, contorted euphemisms for racist segregation doesn't Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #77

+1 uponit7771 Sep 2016 #152

That's because of conversations like this... TipTok Sep 2016 #140

These groups are forming because there is a history of racialharassment bettyellen Sep 2016 #190

People say lots of things. Considering how carelessly the term "racism" is Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #192

So the black students are exaggerating or outright lying because why? bettyellen Sep 2016 #193

"You think giving them any sort of accommodation is unfair" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #198

What sort of accommodations are you actually okay with? And why were you bettyellen Sep 2016 #199

The rules have to be equally applied to everyone. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #203

That's never been the case in the history of our nation, so your admonition is worthless bettyellen Sep 2016 #205

You feel entitled to call people racist or claim they deny racism but feel insulted when Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #206

I did not call anyone a racist. Stop lying about me- that's deplorable. bettyellen Sep 2016 #208

Nobody has been called a racist? Then why the demand for safe spaces? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #210

How does a safe space affect your life one little bit? kwassa Sep 2016 #214

Segregated lunch counters don't effect me either but I still oppose them. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #215

Do you think all male golf clubs are a good thing? Egnever Sep 2016 #45

Not at all the same loyalsister Sep 2016 #47

Not at all like that Egnever Sep 2016 #49

How do you know? loyalsister Sep 2016 #52

How do i know the difference between a rule and self selection? Egnever Sep 2016 #54

How do you know there is not a rule about fraterniy and sorority housing? loyalsister Sep 2016 #55

I'm really trying here... OneGrassRoot Sep 2016 #225

Will try to clarify Egnever Sep 2016 #228

the most openly racist people you're going to encounter at UCLA aren't "white nationalists" Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2016 #60

What!? Quantess Sep 2016 #178

It's not self-segregating if others are forcibly kept away. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #13

Well... Dr. Strange Sep 2016 #19

"dish out pain upon their privileged ass." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #28

Like any student residence, the kids inside can invite friends but if they are troublemakers bettyellen Sep 2016 #191

If the university says from a position of power "only certain races can live here" that is imposed Lee-Lee Sep 2016 #17

Fraternities and sorrorities have self segregated housing loyalsister Sep 2016 #34

False equivalent.. Frats and sororities are a self Exilednight Sep 2016 #92

But they are allowed to pick who gets to be in the club kcr Sep 2016 #194

So being separatists is ok? N/T beevul Sep 2016 #76

no Enrique Sep 2016 #2

No, but it's wonderful for those who get satisfaction from having martyr status. Quantess Sep 2016 #5

Do you think it's unreasonable for students of color to be more worried about racism now loyalsister Sep 2016 #7

I actually do not know. I would say maybe, yes. What do I know? Quantess Sep 2016 #10

Racism has been revealed and people are more comfortable and accepting of bigotry loyalsister Sep 2016 #16

I will state with confidence that racism, bigotry against LGBT, and sexual assaults Quantess Sep 2016 #22

More disturbing that outward malicious bigotry is the way some people deny that it exists loyalsister Sep 2016 #26

What it says to me is that now, people experiencing racism are more likely to speak up about it, Quantess Sep 2016 #32

I have ended a few friendships since 2008 loyalsister Sep 2016 #51

"increase" is a strawman, it doesn't have to "increase" just be more accepted and that's bad enough uponit7771 Sep 2016 #153

The poster might not understand the experience JustAnotherGen Sep 2016 #177

+1 uponit7771 Sep 2016 #183

What the TV shows you is not a true representation of society Egnever Sep 2016 #48

I inform my opinions from sources who live the experience loyalsister Sep 2016 #86

The plural of anecdote is not data... TipTok Sep 2016 #141

The life experiences of real people loyalsister Sep 2016 #142

It means that stories from some people you know... TipTok Sep 2016 #143

Again it is not a rise in racism loyalsister Sep 2016 #144

Distinction without a difference... TipTok Sep 2016 #145

The difference is loyalsister Sep 2016 #146

Not in my world, I would rather racism NOT be normalized and stayed suppressed than it uponit7771 Sep 2016 #157

40% of the US electorate is though, why are people acting as if tRumps text book racism doesnt exist uponit7771 Sep 2016 #156

Right on, racism has been normalized again... that's bad enough uponit7771 Sep 2016 #155

Racism doesn't have to "grow" it just has to be more accepted and after tRump it looks like its... uponit7771 Sep 2016 #154

Civil Rights legislation didn't happen because MLK ran to a safe space. Exilednight Sep 2016 #93

Did you forget that he was murdered during that mission? loyalsister Sep 2016 #94

Okay, now this is just veering into the absurd and morbid fantasies. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #96

Wow loyalsister Sep 2016 #104

No UCLA students were responsible for those incidents. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #106

Never in LA!!! loyalsister Sep 2016 #107

You're right. Racist incidents could happen anywhere. TCJ70 Sep 2016 #108

Yeah.... loyalsister Sep 2016 #109

If you don't see a difference between... TCJ70 Sep 2016 #113

Women in an actual situation loyalsister Sep 2016 #118

Which UCLA student did that? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #111

Perspectives and history that fall outside of the white experience matters seem to be intolerable loyalsister Sep 2016 #117

Because racism is not the cure for racism Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #119

Rosa Parks lived until 92, what's your point? Exilednight Sep 2016 #105

Did you know that the Freedom Riders wrote wills before they got on the buses loyalsister Sep 2016 #125

Is there a group of white supremacists running around UCLA beating Exilednight Sep 2016 #133

I am saying that the mood on campuses and across the country is palpably frightening to black people loyalsister Sep 2016 #135

Well said. Thank you. bettyellen Sep 2016 #209

Excellent post. kwassa Sep 2016 #213

The job of a university is to prepare people for the real world. Exilednight Sep 2016 #162

No gollygee Sep 2016 #6

He knows JustAnotherGen Sep 2016 #33

I went to a State University to study and learn, not to "receive" a degree. Quantess Sep 2016 #50

The reason people study and learn at a university is to get a degree gollygee Sep 2016 #56

No, it isn't "pedantic" at all. Some people really are there to learn. Quantess Sep 2016 #172

You made an assumption about JAG based on her use of the word "receive" gollygee Sep 2016 #175

Shhhhhh don't tell JustAnotherGen Sep 2016 #176

Good for you! JustAnotherGen Sep 2016 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author Quantess Sep 2016 #174

It could have that effect Warpy Sep 2016 #8

NO ... not unless racism has been eradicated (thereby eradicating the need/ desire for safe places) etherealtruth Sep 2016 #9

How about kicking out people who do 'frequent racist attacks', 'racially insensitive remarks' and... Gidney N Cloyd Sep 2016 #11

I would hope that was at least as much a priority. Lee-Lee Sep 2016 #23

They are defended on the basis of free speech loyalsister Sep 2016 #35

I've no doubt that's unfortunately true on some campuses. Gidney N Cloyd Sep 2016 #72

In some colleges there would be no one to teach including deans like at MU and some teachers uponit7771 Sep 2016 #158

no. Warren Stupidity Sep 2016 #12

This may piss off a lot of people, but... trof Sep 2016 #24

It's not DNA related loyalsister Sep 2016 #30

I have raised a small flock of chickens Quantess Sep 2016 #42

That probably served a purpose get the red out Sep 2016 #160

I think the bullshit about snowflakes is tired, frankly. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #29

Well, yes and no. NuclearDem Sep 2016 #37

I think it's good that schools like the U of C are making a firm committment to free inquiry Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #39

I think there's a balance between giving kids confidence NuclearDem Sep 2016 #41

I can tell you that the character building aspect of getting cold cocked in a school bathroom Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #78

A lot of those Baby Boomer regressives were like that in youth. raging moderate Sep 2016 #58

The Daily Mail is a right wing propaganda publication. Kingofalldems Sep 2016 #43

I have wondered this same thing since the first day I started reading DU. m-lekktor Sep 2016 #57

I wouldn't say it's bringing on an "era" of segregation. romanic Sep 2016 #44

Special accommodations, and it has to be cheaper? The2ndWheel Sep 2016 #46

You seriously just compared young POC to snowflakes... NCTraveler Sep 2016 #53

Every white student at that university Bettie Sep 2016 #61

There is something I didn't even come close to saying. NCTraveler Sep 2016 #63

You said that the students Bettie Sep 2016 #65

Your original comment on my words was completely false. NCTraveler Sep 2016 #66

Well, please do share how often students receive Bettie Sep 2016 #67

I'm actually just fine... NCTraveler Sep 2016 #71

I did not personally call anyone a snowflake Bettie Sep 2016 #73

I didn't say you did. NCTraveler Sep 2016 #81

There is a general ban on a group is students based solely on skin color Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #97

I don't get your post. NCTraveler Sep 2016 #99

No one is denying there are racists. What we're saying is there is no justification for segregation. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #100

Poor little white snowflakes. NCTraveler Sep 2016 #110

I side with the innocent. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #112

This policy is an insult mothra1orbit Sep 2016 #59

It isn't OK that people have had to brave racist abuse gollygee Sep 2016 #64

I still want to hear romanic Sep 2016 #79

Two things gollygee Sep 2016 #82

Define "suffer oppression" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #83

From the Nuclear Capitol of the World, I can respond to "suffer oppression." Jeffersons Ghost Sep 2016 #84

Trump campaigning is grounds for anti-white segregation? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #91

Who is oppressing them at college? The2ndWheel Sep 2016 #89

Apparently when some people see a white person walking towards them on the street Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #98

The college, as a white institution, is oppressing them. kwassa Sep 2016 #120

"depending on the environment they grew up in." NuclearDem Sep 2016 #122

You missed the institutional racism part. kwassa Sep 2016 #123

What institutional racism? NuclearDem Sep 2016 #130

White privilege. Think about it. kwassa Sep 2016 #136

And they've chosen to go there because...? The2ndWheel Sep 2016 #126

Because they need to get a college education. kwassa Sep 2016 #137

"Whites are often unconscious of the way an institution is structured to favor them." So the jonno99 Sep 2016 #128

No, you misunderstand. kwassa Sep 2016 #138

Ok then. romanic Sep 2016 #129

They can work on that separate from working on their degree gollygee Sep 2016 #132

How if they are so insulated in "safe spaces"? romanic Sep 2016 #147

The same way people who aren't in school do it gollygee Sep 2016 #167

You clearly don't get it. :/ romanic Sep 2016 #171

Seems like "safe spaces" and "triggers" are being conflated here. OneGrassRoot Sep 2016 #227

A degree is worthless if you don't have the ability to deal with stress... TipTok Sep 2016 #149

Again, they are dealing with the same stress as everyone else PLUS an additional layer of stress. gollygee Sep 2016 #166

No they aren't... TipTok Sep 2016 #169

Yes they are gollygee Sep 2016 #170

A few things. Behind the Aegis Sep 2016 #115

Thank you for an informed response on the subject .... kwassa Sep 2016 #121

No doubt, many people believe Women's Shelter's are discriminatory as well LanternWaste Sep 2016 #85

Mostly, males who abuse women find women's shelters discriminatory w/ image... Jeffersons Ghost Sep 2016 #88

I only have one question ripcord Sep 2016 #87

LOL, the DAILY MAIL? Odin2005 Sep 2016 #90

The OP isn't an opinion piece. FBaggins Sep 2016 #95

It's a right-wing story pushing the right-wing hysteria over "safe spaces". Odin2005 Sep 2016 #161

No. It's just stupid and weak. Loki Liesmith Sep 2016 #101

Safe spaces bigwillq Sep 2016 #102

Why do you think it is a joke? Behind the Aegis Sep 2016 #116

"Our society is so soft." You know what? Good, we want our kids to be soft... Humanist_Activist Sep 2016 #231

Madness. Recreating segregation for fear of micro aggressions?? Albertoo Sep 2016 #114

You are raising a bogus issue. Not surprised. kwassa Sep 2016 #124

So if a restaurant in the south wants to make a safe space for white people who feel threatened Binkie The Clown Sep 2016 #127

The same false comparison that goes on throughout these threads. kwassa Sep 2016 #139

The entire world is a safe space for white people mwrguy Sep 2016 #226

I once got a flat tire in a black neighborhood. Binkie The Clown Sep 2016 #229

Let's see, what's the real bad thing here? DemocraticWing Sep 2016 #131

I highly doubt someone attending a college in LA would face racism enough to need a 'safe space' ram2008 Sep 2016 #148

This is how you are carefully taught to hate and how the conservatives control the dialog. Todays_Illusion Sep 2016 #150

Most of the people pushing some of those phrases... TipTok Sep 2016 #151

The people who want this are disgusting bigots Taitertots Sep 2016 #159

Then the world is full of disgusting bigots .... kwassa Sep 2016 #163

Caring about the complexion of your neighbors is vile bigotry Taitertots Sep 2016 #164

How absurd. Neither vile nor bigotry. kwassa Sep 2016 #165

Oh... You're one of those people who thinks racism is justified by historic marginalization Taitertots Sep 2016 #173

It is only bigotry in your world. kwassa Sep 2016 #180

Alright, then why do they think they want a sanctuary from an entire race of people? NuclearDem Sep 2016 #179

Because they have been mistreated by an entire race of people? kwassa Sep 2016 #181

I wasn't aware university officials were condoning cross burnings on campus. NuclearDem Sep 2016 #182

So, you deny racism happens on university campuses? kwassa Sep 2016 #185

Racial incidents != institutional racism NuclearDem Sep 2016 #187

You minimize. kwassa Sep 2016 #188

It seems a lot of black kids are equating culture shock with racism. NuclearDem Sep 2016 #189

You, and the way things seem to you, are exactly why safe spaces are needed. n/t kcr Sep 2016 #195

They have not been mistreated by an entire race Taitertots Sep 2016 #184

You don't understand either racism or institutional racism. kwassa Sep 2016 #186

I'm not accountable for what other people do... TipTok Sep 2016 #196

And your attitude is exactly why institutional racism continues to persist. kwassa Sep 2016 #200

Why would I be responsible for the racism of other people? TipTok Sep 2016 #202

Because you are white and enjoy a privilege because of that. kwassa Sep 2016 #212

I have no more control over being white than I do over the actions of others... TipTok Sep 2016 #216

Dare I add Uponthegears Sep 2016 #217

That's called private property... TipTok Sep 2016 #218

Now where have I Uponthegears Sep 2016 #219

Couldn't tell you.... TipTok Sep 2016 #220

No, what it tells you Uponthegears Sep 2016 #222

Distinction without a difference... TipTok Sep 2016 #223

No, it's the equivalent Uponthegears Sep 2016 #224

In summary... TipTok Sep 2016 #230

The voice of privilege speaks (and judges) Uponthegears Sep 2016 #233

I'm not suggesting that there aren't challenges for PoC that white people don't face.... TipTok Sep 2016 #234

You appear to have trouble with the concept of context gollygee Sep 2016 #168

This is nothing like the era of segregation Matrosov Sep 2016 #197

So tired of hearing Uponthegears Sep 2016 #201

I guess you can pretend something forced on someone and something totally voluntary are the same. Rex Sep 2016 #211

Part of the benefit of college is broadening your horizons and taking you out of your comfort zone. bklyncowgirl Sep 2016 #221

About forced versus self-segregation... OneGrassRoot Sep 2016 #232