General Discussion

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)

109. White people don't have a great track record of supporting people of color

Thu Sep 8, 2016, 12:55 PM

Sep 2016

To demand that your doubt and disputes of their experience be permitted to shout down the voices of oppressed people trying to gather in the spirit of supporting each other is absurd. Allies are welcome, doubters are not because the denial of oppression is the very basis of the white supremacy people of color have had to spend hundreds of years fighting.
Slaves weren't oppressed because they were lucky to be fed.
Blacks can't be experiencing oppression unless white people see it with their own eyes or in a data table.

White people who are committed to supporting and helping people of color are welcome. Why should someone without an honest commitment and respect for the cause and grievances identified by people of color be welcome? Why should it be assumed that people are committed when they are part of the oppressive group and have only doubted the experiences that have been identified by those who are oppressed?

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Suppose a group has declared a "safe space" on public property or a place of public accommodation [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 OP

Does the declaring group have any authority to do so? Orrex Sep 2016 #1

Those are generally limited to a specified time. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #2

Does your hypothetical group intend to declare a permanent "safe space?" Orrex Sep 2016 #3

Permanent or not private parties have no authority in public venues. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #6

So you're now stipulating that it's a private group? Orrex Sep 2016 #22

Who does the government declare safe spaces from? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #25

Hey, it was your weird question to begin with Orrex Sep 2016 #43

You guys are obviously too humiliated to openly admit what you want. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #60

They are enforced by police, usually jberryhill Sep 2016 #113

It's really simple. cheapdate Sep 2016 #127

If I rent a public park pavilion for a birthday party jberryhill Sep 2016 #34

Birthday parties exist. Apparently safe spaces do not. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #38

Pretty sure that Chester the Molester is not invited to the party jberryhill Sep 2016 #47

Can Wheeler the Drug Dealer be lawfully invited to the birthday party? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #52

It's entirely up to me jberryhill Sep 2016 #62

I would be interested in seeing a defense made in a court of law Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #64

As distinguished from some other court? jberryhill Sep 2016 #66

In other words a permit or rental agreement with a government agency or public institution Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #75

It is a license to exclude others from the event jberryhill Sep 2016 #76

As long as that exclusion is lawful. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #78

That's where you are wrong jberryhill Sep 2016 #104

The Civil Rights Act Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #107

Rofl jberryhill Sep 2016 #108

Define "safe space." I've yet to see anyone with any knowledge,... Cerridwen Sep 2016 #4

What is the definition? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #5

First of all, I asked for a definition. I notice you didn't answer. Cerridwen Sep 2016 #7

No, my reply is deliberate. If those wanting the privilege of safe spaces cannot define them. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #10

Ah. So you don't actually know what a safe space is, just what you've heard... Cerridwen Sep 2016 #12

I bet you can't define what constitutes a safe space because doing so Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #17

This is your thesis and your agenda. kwassa Sep 2016 #19

Safe spaces don't exist. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #20

Prove it. kwassa Sep 2016 #23

They do not possess any quantifiable or qualifiable characteristics. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #26

Prove it. kwassa Sep 2016 #32

You're engaged in a logical fallacy: Demanding proof of a negative. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #35

You just made an assertion, it is yours to defend. kwassa Sep 2016 #53

Actually, I'm agreeing with Cerridwen that no definition exists. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #58

Neither does art. LanternWaste Sep 2016 #87

I'm pretty sure a 8" x 10" painting is 8" wide and 10" in height Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #89

Great--I'll have the cigar-smoker's club convene in your kitchen tonight Orrex Sep 2016 #31

My kitchen is private property. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #33

Are you saying that I can hang out at your campsite at Yellowstone National Park? jberryhill Sep 2016 #37

The only person discussing camp ground rentals is you. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #40

YOU are asking about whether a group can exclude others on public property jberryhill Sep 2016 #44

Ah--so you accept that "safe spaces" do exist. Orrex Sep 2016 #45

No, I recognize private property exists. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #48

So you accept that "safe spaces" do exist. Orrex Sep 2016 #55

Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less wrong. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #57

Your desperation is charming Orrex Sep 2016 #59

In the OP is specificed public propert and places of public accommodation. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #63

Well, no Orrex Sep 2016 #67

"you then unilaterally declared that safe spaces do not exist" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #71

Your OP did not stipulate "private groups," so you're changing your question Orrex Sep 2016 #72

I suppose if someone wanted to pick nits they could make a claim "private groups" had to be Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #74

That's not picking nits--it's essential to the discussion Orrex Sep 2016 #84

Perhaps we have different definitions of public and private. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #88

Well, let's review: Orrex Sep 2016 #95

"the contract provides for the exclusion of certain parties" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #98

"the party entering into the agreement is not given license to engage in unlawful activity." Orrex Sep 2016 #99

Race, religion, etc. as defined in civil rights law. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #100

yet you cite no statute and you cite no case jberryhill Sep 2016 #106

If I obtain a permit to host an Atheists' Club meeting in a pavilion at a public park... Orrex Sep 2016 #112

How about atheist only living accommodations on university property? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #115

How about answering my question? Orrex Sep 2016 #117

If I answer yours will you answer mine? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #118

So you're not actually interested in discussion? Orrex Sep 2016 #119

"I suggested an example where such exclusion would be reasonable and permitted." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #120

Is the proposed university a public institution or private? Orrex Sep 2016 #122

I actually have no disagreement with anything you wrote. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #123

Well, I admit that that was unexpected. Orrex Sep 2016 #125

That's simply wrong jberryhill Sep 2016 #105

Since you win the thread, expect your posts to be roundly ignored by the OP. Rex Sep 2016 #140

Three (?) replies to me and no definition forthcoming. Cerridwen Sep 2016 #29

That's the poster's M.O. Orrex Sep 2016 #56

Safe Space (n) Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #83

Power to discriminate wryter2000 Sep 2016 #50

Got what? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #51

but he is somehow offended by what he doesn't know about .... kwassa Sep 2016 #18

Who's "he"? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #21

You. kwassa Sep 2016 #24

Well, it wouldn't be the first time you were wrong. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #27

"He" is a female. MicaelS Sep 2016 #110

She. kwassa Sep 2016 #114

Actually, it looks as though he's bothered by something he says doesn't exist. Cerridwen Sep 2016 #36

Who's "he"? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #49

That is indeed curious, isn't it? kwassa Sep 2016 #54

This was a fascinating exchange. Marr Sep 2016 #142

Thank you. I genuinely wish it were otherwise. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #143

Since you appear to have the only "correct" answer.. MicaelS Sep 2016 #13

Uh, I didn't offer an answer nor say I had an answer, "correct," correct, or otherwise. Cerridwen Sep 2016 #14

No I do not. MicaelS Sep 2016 #16

"I would like to read a comprehensive definition..." So would I. Cerridwen Sep 2016 #30

It is space where people agree and can be counted on to be respectful loyalsister Sep 2016 #82

attitude adjustments around the head and neck area until they leave? ileus Sep 2016 #8

Um, this is easy, you use the same bubbles that they have at Safe Space University snooper2 Sep 2016 #9

If a space is public, it is public. MineralMan Sep 2016 #11

Apparently Nuclear Unicorn wants to crawl into your tent at your campsite in Yosemite jberryhill Sep 2016 #39

Yosemite? I stay at the Ahwahnee. MineralMan Sep 2016 #42

Like this? REP Sep 2016 #15

1) What group is alowed to unanimously "declare a safe space"? NCTraveler Sep 2016 #28

Those institutions granting permits have rules they have to operate under; civil rights law being a Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #46

Correct. NCTraveler Sep 2016 #116

If they don't leave they must be crushed. AngryAmish Sep 2016 #41

The safe space group should be mocked and everyone moves on with their life... TipTok Sep 2016 #61

The hatred for people of color by a small group of mutual congratulators on this forum is remarkable alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #65

That sounds like circular reasoning. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #68

If a convicted predatory child rapist hangs out at a public playground, can he be removed? Orrex Sep 2016 #69

The predator had to be charged with a specific misdeed and then convicted. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #73

You are once again changing your question Orrex Sep 2016 #77

You're raising questions and I am answering each one in turn. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #80

No, you aren't Orrex Sep 2016 #85

"Did I claim that it does? Of course not." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #90

Why? Are they participating in this discussion here? Orrex Sep 2016 #92

So, you were totally unaware that's what the OP was referring to. Okay. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #93

I addressed the OP as written. Orrex Sep 2016 #97

That's not really an analagous situation to what is described in the OP. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #124

The poster indicated that the question applies to private and public groups Orrex Sep 2016 #126

I guess. But it's hardly the same as any other "public group". Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #129

What is the point of this Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2016 #70

If a person feels the need of a safe space they should stay home virgogal Sep 2016 #79

"avoid the masses completely" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #81

Home is the safe space... (edited) OneGrassRoot Sep 2016 #135

I'd imagine the same way we reacted to an individual arriving uninvited to a toddler's birthday part LanternWaste Sep 2016 #86

"It's not very often that a creep comes into a afternoon buffet restaurant and sits uninvited" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #91

I think you intentionally misunderstand and misrepresent the concept loyalsister Sep 2016 #94

One example of inclusion does not exonerate every other example of exclusion. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #96

Do you have personal knowledge of such instances loyalsister Sep 2016 #101

"Inclusion of unfriendly voices is what you seem to be demanding." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #103

White people don't have a great track record of supporting people of color loyalsister Sep 2016 #109

So does that mean... (edited) OneGrassRoot Sep 2016 #136

A demonstration is a limited time event. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #137

Okay, so it is about the housing issue... OneGrassRoot Sep 2016 #138

I'm not sure of the context but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2016 #102

This happens all of the time jberryhill Sep 2016 #111

Safe spaces often don't work that way gollygee Sep 2016 #121

Those who want safe space are free to establish them on private property. Agnosticsherbet Sep 2016 #128

You have no fucking clue what a "safe space" is. Odin2005 Sep 2016 #130

Campus organizations have by-laws, charters, scheduled meeting times and places, etc. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #131

You are grasping as strawmen. Odin2005 Sep 2016 #132

Which RW source did I cite in my reference to UCLA student housing? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #134

Re: campus housing... OneGrassRoot Sep 2016 #141

Not if it is a public area. MicaelS Sep 2016 #133

. Rex Sep 2016 #139