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TomClash

(11,344 posts)
58. The discrepancy between exit polls and actual results IS evidence
Mon Jun 18, 2012, 11:02 AM
Jun 2012

The unverifiable nature of much of the voting is also evidence.

What you want is a "smoking gun" that ends all debate. That's an impossible standard to meet when all of the physical evidence is in the hands of people who have a vested interest in preserving the status quo, not rocking the boat. It is a subjective standard applied only to what are deemed "conspiracy theories."

"push and pray" Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #1
Who's behind these private companies? It's hard to tell: The corporate lines – Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #44
"Hacking Democracy" (HBO documentary link)- Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #67
Clint CURTIS wrote Software to STEAL ELECTIONS Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #84
Princeton University Exposes Diebold Flaws Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #97
Sequoia Part 1 Those with access can hack with programmed ROM chip.wmv Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #99
When are we going to do something about this for real. RC Jun 2012 #2
I go to the board of elections SemperEadem Jun 2012 #3
If early voting is similar to other places, your vote is never counted. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #6
Bizzzzzzzzzzz; greiner3 Jun 2012 #16
The hostility/sarcasm is sort of funny in its defensiveness. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #28
Excuse me . . . MrModerate Jun 2012 #34
It's the PROVISIONAL ballots that are almost never counted. nt patrice Jun 2012 #51
You're overgeneralizing. Igel Jun 2012 #106
where I vote, it is counted SemperEadem Jun 2012 #175
Here in LA County, early votes are counted as absentee votes. All absentees are handled by ES&S. robinlynne Jun 2012 #95
I'm a poll worker in Massachusetts millijac Jun 2012 #138
The GOP corporate media supports this through constant predictions... Atman Jun 2012 #4
The corporate news blackout sulphurdunn Jun 2012 #5
Its not just the corporate media. Our 'representatives' are stone silent as well. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #8
+1000 shcrane71 Jun 2012 #19
This is why the Repigs are so confident. madashelltoo Jun 2012 #7
Howard Dean and Rush Holt have been right all along DFW Jun 2012 #9
I remember watching that Peter KIng quote on TV and was aghast. Chipper Chat Jun 2012 #18
"are there programs that can be used to secretly fix elections?" Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #31
Thank You for this important article!! K&R hue Jun 2012 #10
Around here, none dare call it conspiracy theory BS GarroHorus Jun 2012 #11
Wanna buy a piece of land? Zorra Jun 2012 #14
Ha ha GarroHorus Jun 2012 #17
False equivalency proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #25
Ha ha GarroHorus Jun 2012 #29
I take it you know all about what they say proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #111
Fine. You drive a hard bargain. $150 an acre, firm. Zorra Jun 2012 #27
No evidence of electronic voting machime fraud during an election has ever... GarroHorus Jun 2012 #32
Except right here in this thread proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #113
No evidence was presented GarroHorus Jun 2012 #114
Exit polls are evidence. They are used to detect tampering in every other real democracy. Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #127
They only detect tampering when the exit polls are horribly divergent from the results GarroHorus Jun 2012 #130
7% isn't even close to the margin of error Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #181
Where is the paper trail for the exit polls? skepticscott Jun 2012 #155
I don't have the time to teach you a poli sci statistics class, but your question is silly. Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #182
The question is not about statistics skepticscott Jun 2012 #183
No you question was entirely about the validity of statistical analysis as a check against fraud Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #184
Ohio SOS Jennifer Brunner called Ohio's electronic machines 'easily hackable'. peace13 Jun 2012 #139
I'll believe her Aerows Jun 2012 #162
You're trying too hard. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #100
Actually, I'm not trying at all. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #104
No experts on voting in the US? sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #117
Actually, the poster is doing the equivilent of the hear, see, speak no evil routine. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #107
I recently read a third graders' essay that read much like your own statement. LanternWaste Jun 2012 #141
"not a shred of real evidence " zeemike Jun 2012 #21
Ha ha GarroHorus Jun 2012 #33
I know...that is my point. zeemike Jun 2012 #41
You actually took my response wrong GarroHorus Jun 2012 #43
Except that there actually IS evidence for voter fraud zeemike Jun 2012 #76
There is NO evidence of widespread voter fraud GarroHorus Jun 2012 #81
do you want real proof? Botany Jun 2012 #147
Maybe the evidence you're looking for can only be found groovedaddy Jun 2012 #178
Obama has a paper genuine birth certificate. Zorra Jun 2012 #92
I see the paper recording of my vote when I vote on a machine GarroHorus Jun 2012 #94
Vote flipping: Zorra Jun 2012 #108
Not a single instance of that in any election GarroHorus Jun 2012 #110
Hoooweee!!! Should we believe what we see, or what you tell us? Zorra Jun 2012 #126
That is exactly correct. The Doctor. Jun 2012 #86
At the risk of being redundant (which obviously is nothing new to you), hue Jun 2012 #30
I vote on epectronic machines and my vote is valid and verified GarroHorus Jun 2012 #36
Do you really believe Jake2413 Jun 2012 #48
Do you really believe a massive widespread conspiracy to do that exists? GarroHorus Jun 2012 #55
Actually it would take one person putting one line of code is a program. Jake2413 Jun 2012 #68
Then the same could have been done with the old IBM punch cards GarroHorus Jun 2012 #71
You are correct punch cards could have been hacked as well. Jake2413 Jun 2012 #74
Early voting GarroHorus Jun 2012 #83
Here is link for you to checkout. Jake2413 Jun 2012 #140
The Ohio Secretary of State Aerows Jun 2012 #161
Yes GarroHorus Jun 2012 #177
Supply evidence that the record is accurate. eridani Jun 2012 #176
Uncounted - Clint Curtis: Million Dollar Programmer Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #35
But that is not "credible evidences" zeemike Jun 2012 #46
Haha...is that what is said? Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #78
The discrepancy between exit polls and actual results IS evidence TomClash Jun 2012 #58
No, it is not. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #66
It is evidence and you have not refuted that evidence TomClash Jun 2012 #77
What has changed is the REPORTING of exit polls GarroHorus Jun 2012 #79
I am familiar with this point TomClash Jun 2012 #96
The same thing happens in elections the Democratic candidates win. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #98
Why is it so rare for Democratic candidates, though? TomClash Jun 2012 #128
It's not so rare for Democratic candidates GarroHorus Jun 2012 #129
"It's the same for both" TomClash Jun 2012 #158
Calling Bob Fitrakis a conspiracy nut is in itself embarrassing. EFerrari Jun 2012 #73
The tactic is tried and true. Make fun and name call to get people to dismiss. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #75
Fitrakis is pretty much the gold standard on this topic EFerrari Jun 2012 #85
Yes - agree. Bob Fitrakis is highly credible on this topic. n/t Misskittycat Jun 2012 #91
+1. Yep. It's sheep chow. nt Zorra Jun 2012 #93
+1 proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #132
Take time and listen to Clint Curtis tell us why the Florida Machines were midnight Jun 2012 #160
Take a look at this thread Samantha Jun 2012 #171
It is not up to voters to prove election fraud eridani Jun 2012 #174
The Democratic Party has a lot of resources. When will they recognize that rhett o rick Jun 2012 #12
Exception,in 2010 when the Repukes gained control of the house there INdemo Jun 2012 #13
One only need to watch/listen to which party/politician the Corporate media is fawning over. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #23
Our framer's of our Constitution would have the majority of these election thieves in INdemo Jun 2012 #80
+1000 shcrane71 Jun 2012 #103
my question is this liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #15
Review the Max Cleland-Saxby Chambliss senate race. Chipper Chat Jun 2012 #20
Yes, that is yet another one... -eom Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #37
Then PROVE IT GarroHorus Jun 2012 #39
You can't prove anything if you decide what evidence's to look at. zeemike Jun 2012 #59
You can show a machine is hackable GarroHorus Jun 2012 #62
Well that can NEVER be shown because it is a machine zeemike Jun 2012 #69
Are there any paperless voting systems in use in Wisconsin? slackmaster Jun 2012 #125
They probably do have a paper trail in most places zeemike Jun 2012 #133
Which is why paper trails are useless. We need paper *ballots* EFerrari Jun 2012 #134
Absolute zeemike Jun 2012 #145
Your answer is a bit vague, but assuming that there is always some kind of paper audit trail, how... slackmaster Jun 2012 #135
Much different. zeemike Jun 2012 #142
You didn't read the article then.... Exit polling is rather precise.. When we send people glowing Jun 2012 #38
Perspective. Igel Jun 2012 #112
No exit polls are not just exit polls. zeemike Jun 2012 #54
yes they are liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #87
You confuse the use of them now with the use of them in the past. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #90
if there is rigging liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #102
Shouldn't this kind of stuff be in the Creative Speculation forum? Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #22
I think it should GarroHorus Jun 2012 #40
There is much evidence that voting machines can easily be hacked... hue Jun 2012 #42
There is ZERO evidence that they have ever been hacked during an election GarroHorus Jun 2012 #45
Who cares if there is "ZERO" evidence. That does not mean there is no evidence. hue Jun 2012 #47
Hey.... that also applies to the shooting down of Paul Wellstone's plane! Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #52
This tactic is old. Can't blame you for trying. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #61
Then prove your allegations GarroHorus Jun 2012 #63
OK. I suppose "who cares if there is zero evidence" is a better tactic (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #70
new evidence is being uncovered all the time... hue Jun 2012 #82
Yeah, right GarroHorus Jun 2012 #57
I agree Garro liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #88
No paper trail. Where do you get the evidence? roody Jun 2012 #60
Or reported, not found (not looked for) and not reported. siligut Jun 2012 #89
So the evidence for the evidence is that there is no evidence? Flatulo Jun 2012 #169
"There's no place like home"! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #50
If there is evidence, PRESENT IT! GarroHorus Jun 2012 #56
You mean sworn testimony under oath is not evidence? zeemike Jun 2012 #64
Sworn testimony that something could happen is not evidence that it has happened. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #65
Which goes to opportunity and motive. zeemike Jun 2012 #72
By the legal standard of evidence, there is evidence. Jim Lane Jun 2012 #143
Ol' Garro Caretha Jun 2012 #156
How do you know that? How do we verify that votes have been accurately sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #101
The same way we verify the votes were accurately counted with the old paper ballot. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #105
I'm talking about votes flipping on the machines. Give one instance of when the machines were sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #118
Give one instance where vote flipping actually happened. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #119
So, iow, people cannot verify the votes in those machines. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #122
Sure you can. I did it the last time I used a touch screen GarroHorus Jun 2012 #124
Never ever, with proprietary machines, with proprietary software, owned and maintained by private RC Jun 2012 #131
When you are paid to 'not believe' something and your check depends on it Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #136
Those machines must be destroyed. The Doctor. Jun 2012 #24
I agree, Doctor. Daleks are evil machines. Or did you mean cybermen? (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #53
I lived in a very RED state when the Tea Baggers were taking over. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #26
Instant RunOff Paper Ballots, Marked by Hand, Encrypted Receipts, & Ballots Counted In Public on patrice Jun 2012 #49
I agree that fraud may have been involved, but... hrmjustin Jun 2012 #109
Spending tons of money to alter the results of an election is vote-rigging. nt Comrade_McKenzie Jun 2012 #115
Yes, it's unfortunate that A) unlimited amounts can be spent on an election by anyone, and B) slackmaster Jun 2012 #120
this issue is the ONE librechik Jun 2012 #123
We need Anonymous LiberalLovinLug Jun 2012 #116
I'd never seen an electronic vote machine here in California until 2008 and it was unused where I we ryan_cats Jun 2012 #121
GOP even does it to themselves when needed- Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #137
I just posted this to my facebook ... Clouseau2 Jun 2012 #144
so if the Korporate Konservative xxqqqzme Jun 2012 #146
well written, so glad someone is saying it Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #148
That's because we live in a corporatocracy, not a democracy. valerief Jun 2012 #149
Don't blame me I voted electronically Hubert Flottz Jun 2012 #150
I was dismayed when I saw long-term posters HERE a2liberal Jun 2012 #151
Do you think Paul Wellstone's plane may have been sabotaged? Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #153
Are all the mail-in ballots in Washington tallied by hand? shcrane71 Jun 2012 #159
I'm sure they'll get around to calling it fraud as soon as they label the 2004 Ohio exit poll TrollBuster9090 Jun 2012 #152
Germany outlaws electronic voting 12zelda12 Jun 2012 #154
From the article: Aerows Jun 2012 #165
You mean this part? What they call "the latest PR line from e-voting vendors"? Zorra Jun 2012 #167
K&R Blue Owl Jun 2012 #157
Me too... Without an election system that people believe in, we can't shcrane71 Jun 2012 #180
The same people josejimenez Jun 2012 #163
We could do a massive show-up on our own and count them ourselves. What do you suggest we do? lonestarnot Jun 2012 #164
There may be a window of opportunity. mojowork_n Jun 2012 #170
What to do?! 12zelda12 Jun 2012 #166
The most shocking part is how public opinion polls before the election tritsofme Jun 2012 #168
Yes, it is indeed shocking how they have managed to rig public opinion. slackmaster Jun 2012 #179
kick Angry Dragon Jun 2012 #172
American Exceptionalism at work again! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #173
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