Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

mojowork_n

(2,354 posts)
170. There may be a window of opportunity.
Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:32 AM
Jun 2012

The date for certification of the June 5th election is the 23rd.

The state of Wisconsin's General Accountability Board has a procedure in
place for a "random draw procedure for voting system audit." I think it's
supposed to take place within a two-week window following the certification
date.

I could find a link here:

http://gab.wi.gov/node/1409

That page actually describes what was in place for the September primary election in
2010 (couldn't find a link to this year's, it may not exist on that state agency's
website), but it's basically a two-step process. A "random" sampling of several
different types of voting machines is selected for a paper-counted audit, with
steps in place to make sure that "at least 5 reporting units" will be selected to
test each of the different types of voting machines used in Wisconsin. So that
the audit actually checks the reliability or accuracy of all of the different
manufacturers' models. Then, when the audit list is complete, the county clerks
in each of the "randomly selected" reporting units are notified, and they perform
the audits locally. For the September primary in 2010, the web page reports that
"...Each municipal and county clerk selected shall be contacted by the close of
business on Wednesday, November 3, 2010."

So there are maybe still a few weeks left before that audit process begins.

But here's the kicker, this is the line on the web page that says how voting
machines will be picked for the paper audit:

"The staff shall use the random number generator in Excel to select 250 reporting units for audit by local election officials."


That's it. Nothing about any precautions to make sure that the (networked?)
PC on which the copy of Excel has been installed isn't, itself, subject to any
possible intrusion.

In this case, when we've already had people named and indicted for a "secret
wireless network" that was installed within 20 feet of Scott Walker's office, while
he was County Executive (that some people think was installed to allow 'unofficial'
partisan work and campaigning while they were also on the clock for state-paid
official job responsibilities), it might not be inconceivable that someone could
insist a few extra precautions are taken. (A judge, somewhere, I don't know.)

The circumstances of the 2011 recount for the State Supreme Court election
were also somewhat unusual, when bags full of ballots were discovered unsealed,
busted open and otherwise compromised.

With some of the Governor's top aides already named and indicted in the criminal
John Doe investigation....

...and last Sunday's largest circulation daily having taken note of the following:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/dominance-in-rural-areas-ensured-walkers-win-h85ptpl-159315385.html

.....consider the swing nature of the 11-county Wausau TV market in north-central Wisconsin. Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle won the Wausau market by 11 points in 2006. Democrat Barack Obama won it by 12 in 2008. Then Republican Walker won it by 12 points in 2010 and by 18 points in 2012.

Consider the Green Bay market. Obama carried it by seven in 2008 and Walker carried it by 23 in 2012.

Consider the La Crosse-Eau Claire market. Obama carried it by 19 points in 2008 and Walker carried it by nine points in 2012....

...Many of the same outstate counties Obama carried by single or double digits in 2008, Walker ran away with in 2012.

The fact that Walker won them by such unusual margins is clearly an encouraging sign for Republicans in November.

By the same token, Walker's performance in outstate Wisconsin was so exceptional it may be hard for other Republicans to duplicate.

One of the hardest things to know about elections is: When does something pretty unusual constitute a trend? And when is it just something pretty unusual?


Would it be possible to insist that instead of using some PC in a state office building somewhere -- that's almost certainly connected to other PC's in the state network, and other PC's beyond that network's firewall (?), the "random" audit is made truly random?

Get a brand new PC, never connected to the web or a network, and use the copy of Excel that's ever so

...c a r e f u l l y...

installed on it to generate 100 separate lists of the required 250 'reporting units.'

Pick one of those at random, and then go through the required steps.

Using a machine that's simply available, in some state office somewhere -- and known to how many people as the "official audit PC" -- completely defeats the purpose of holding a random audit. It would be the digital equivalent of going to a casino to place bets where you know that almost anyone, at any time, could wire up an invisible magnet to the roulette wheel. Or to use a more common analogy, like buying meat or deli items at a grocery where the person behind the counter has an invisible, electric thumb that could be applied to the scale. At any time.

If enough people get behind the idea, maybe we could make it happen. If every paper ballot that's hand counted exactly matches the machine-tabulated results in every reporting unit, it'll simply quiet all the talk about vote rigging. We can go on with politics as usual for the November election. Talk about messaging, and how to connect with all those out-state, Northeast voters who gave up on the Democrats in the recall. (Did they really? The anecdotal stories I heard had people out-state who were paid 100 bucks a pop to put huge Walker signs in their front yards actually intending to vote for Tom Barrett.)

It would really be a good way to separate and answer two distinct, unrelated questions. Question 1.) "What happened in the minds of voters that caused them to view the election as a choice, in the way that they did." and Question 2.) "Was the vote tabulation recorded by all the electronic voting machines -- that have been discontinued and banned in so many other countries (the U.K., Holland, & Germany among them) -- accurate and reliable?"

PS -- With the exception of one question I can think of -- "Why didn't Russ Feingold want to run against Walker?" -- many of the questions that were raised up-thread have been discussed in the Wisconsin forum here at D.U., and also at bradblog and Thom Hartmann's blog. In case anyone wants to go ahead and do some note-taking and research, before writing up a good, concise bullet-point petition.

(That is, assuming it's worth going through with that small amount of extra time and effort; if there's no chance that there could have been back-tampering with bags of ballots, to make machine tabulations match the paper count.)

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

"push and pray" Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #1
Who's behind these private companies? It's hard to tell: The corporate lines – Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #44
"Hacking Democracy" (HBO documentary link)- Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #67
Clint CURTIS wrote Software to STEAL ELECTIONS Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #84
Princeton University Exposes Diebold Flaws Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #97
Sequoia Part 1 Those with access can hack with programmed ROM chip.wmv Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #99
When are we going to do something about this for real. RC Jun 2012 #2
I go to the board of elections SemperEadem Jun 2012 #3
If early voting is similar to other places, your vote is never counted. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #6
Bizzzzzzzzzzz; greiner3 Jun 2012 #16
The hostility/sarcasm is sort of funny in its defensiveness. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #28
Excuse me . . . MrModerate Jun 2012 #34
It's the PROVISIONAL ballots that are almost never counted. nt patrice Jun 2012 #51
You're overgeneralizing. Igel Jun 2012 #106
where I vote, it is counted SemperEadem Jun 2012 #175
Here in LA County, early votes are counted as absentee votes. All absentees are handled by ES&S. robinlynne Jun 2012 #95
I'm a poll worker in Massachusetts millijac Jun 2012 #138
The GOP corporate media supports this through constant predictions... Atman Jun 2012 #4
The corporate news blackout sulphurdunn Jun 2012 #5
Its not just the corporate media. Our 'representatives' are stone silent as well. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #8
+1000 shcrane71 Jun 2012 #19
This is why the Repigs are so confident. madashelltoo Jun 2012 #7
Howard Dean and Rush Holt have been right all along DFW Jun 2012 #9
I remember watching that Peter KIng quote on TV and was aghast. Chipper Chat Jun 2012 #18
"are there programs that can be used to secretly fix elections?" Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #31
Thank You for this important article!! K&R hue Jun 2012 #10
Around here, none dare call it conspiracy theory BS GarroHorus Jun 2012 #11
Wanna buy a piece of land? Zorra Jun 2012 #14
Ha ha GarroHorus Jun 2012 #17
False equivalency proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #25
Ha ha GarroHorus Jun 2012 #29
I take it you know all about what they say proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #111
Fine. You drive a hard bargain. $150 an acre, firm. Zorra Jun 2012 #27
No evidence of electronic voting machime fraud during an election has ever... GarroHorus Jun 2012 #32
Except right here in this thread proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #113
No evidence was presented GarroHorus Jun 2012 #114
Exit polls are evidence. They are used to detect tampering in every other real democracy. Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #127
They only detect tampering when the exit polls are horribly divergent from the results GarroHorus Jun 2012 #130
7% isn't even close to the margin of error Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #181
Where is the paper trail for the exit polls? skepticscott Jun 2012 #155
I don't have the time to teach you a poli sci statistics class, but your question is silly. Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #182
The question is not about statistics skepticscott Jun 2012 #183
No you question was entirely about the validity of statistical analysis as a check against fraud Exultant Democracy Jun 2012 #184
Ohio SOS Jennifer Brunner called Ohio's electronic machines 'easily hackable'. peace13 Jun 2012 #139
I'll believe her Aerows Jun 2012 #162
You're trying too hard. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #100
Actually, I'm not trying at all. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #104
No experts on voting in the US? sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #117
Actually, the poster is doing the equivilent of the hear, see, speak no evil routine. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #107
I recently read a third graders' essay that read much like your own statement. LanternWaste Jun 2012 #141
"not a shred of real evidence " zeemike Jun 2012 #21
Ha ha GarroHorus Jun 2012 #33
I know...that is my point. zeemike Jun 2012 #41
You actually took my response wrong GarroHorus Jun 2012 #43
Except that there actually IS evidence for voter fraud zeemike Jun 2012 #76
There is NO evidence of widespread voter fraud GarroHorus Jun 2012 #81
do you want real proof? Botany Jun 2012 #147
Maybe the evidence you're looking for can only be found groovedaddy Jun 2012 #178
Obama has a paper genuine birth certificate. Zorra Jun 2012 #92
I see the paper recording of my vote when I vote on a machine GarroHorus Jun 2012 #94
Vote flipping: Zorra Jun 2012 #108
Not a single instance of that in any election GarroHorus Jun 2012 #110
Hoooweee!!! Should we believe what we see, or what you tell us? Zorra Jun 2012 #126
That is exactly correct. The Doctor. Jun 2012 #86
At the risk of being redundant (which obviously is nothing new to you), hue Jun 2012 #30
I vote on epectronic machines and my vote is valid and verified GarroHorus Jun 2012 #36
Do you really believe Jake2413 Jun 2012 #48
Do you really believe a massive widespread conspiracy to do that exists? GarroHorus Jun 2012 #55
Actually it would take one person putting one line of code is a program. Jake2413 Jun 2012 #68
Then the same could have been done with the old IBM punch cards GarroHorus Jun 2012 #71
You are correct punch cards could have been hacked as well. Jake2413 Jun 2012 #74
Early voting GarroHorus Jun 2012 #83
Here is link for you to checkout. Jake2413 Jun 2012 #140
The Ohio Secretary of State Aerows Jun 2012 #161
Yes GarroHorus Jun 2012 #177
Supply evidence that the record is accurate. eridani Jun 2012 #176
Uncounted - Clint Curtis: Million Dollar Programmer Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #35
But that is not "credible evidences" zeemike Jun 2012 #46
Haha...is that what is said? Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #78
The discrepancy between exit polls and actual results IS evidence TomClash Jun 2012 #58
No, it is not. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #66
It is evidence and you have not refuted that evidence TomClash Jun 2012 #77
What has changed is the REPORTING of exit polls GarroHorus Jun 2012 #79
I am familiar with this point TomClash Jun 2012 #96
The same thing happens in elections the Democratic candidates win. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #98
Why is it so rare for Democratic candidates, though? TomClash Jun 2012 #128
It's not so rare for Democratic candidates GarroHorus Jun 2012 #129
"It's the same for both" TomClash Jun 2012 #158
Calling Bob Fitrakis a conspiracy nut is in itself embarrassing. EFerrari Jun 2012 #73
The tactic is tried and true. Make fun and name call to get people to dismiss. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #75
Fitrakis is pretty much the gold standard on this topic EFerrari Jun 2012 #85
Yes - agree. Bob Fitrakis is highly credible on this topic. n/t Misskittycat Jun 2012 #91
+1. Yep. It's sheep chow. nt Zorra Jun 2012 #93
+1 proud2BlibKansan Jun 2012 #132
Take time and listen to Clint Curtis tell us why the Florida Machines were midnight Jun 2012 #160
Take a look at this thread Samantha Jun 2012 #171
It is not up to voters to prove election fraud eridani Jun 2012 #174
The Democratic Party has a lot of resources. When will they recognize that rhett o rick Jun 2012 #12
Exception,in 2010 when the Repukes gained control of the house there INdemo Jun 2012 #13
One only need to watch/listen to which party/politician the Corporate media is fawning over. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #23
Our framer's of our Constitution would have the majority of these election thieves in INdemo Jun 2012 #80
+1000 shcrane71 Jun 2012 #103
my question is this liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #15
Review the Max Cleland-Saxby Chambliss senate race. Chipper Chat Jun 2012 #20
Yes, that is yet another one... -eom Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #37
Then PROVE IT GarroHorus Jun 2012 #39
You can't prove anything if you decide what evidence's to look at. zeemike Jun 2012 #59
You can show a machine is hackable GarroHorus Jun 2012 #62
Well that can NEVER be shown because it is a machine zeemike Jun 2012 #69
Are there any paperless voting systems in use in Wisconsin? slackmaster Jun 2012 #125
They probably do have a paper trail in most places zeemike Jun 2012 #133
Which is why paper trails are useless. We need paper *ballots* EFerrari Jun 2012 #134
Absolute zeemike Jun 2012 #145
Your answer is a bit vague, but assuming that there is always some kind of paper audit trail, how... slackmaster Jun 2012 #135
Much different. zeemike Jun 2012 #142
You didn't read the article then.... Exit polling is rather precise.. When we send people glowing Jun 2012 #38
Perspective. Igel Jun 2012 #112
No exit polls are not just exit polls. zeemike Jun 2012 #54
yes they are liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #87
You confuse the use of them now with the use of them in the past. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #90
if there is rigging liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #102
Shouldn't this kind of stuff be in the Creative Speculation forum? Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #22
I think it should GarroHorus Jun 2012 #40
There is much evidence that voting machines can easily be hacked... hue Jun 2012 #42
There is ZERO evidence that they have ever been hacked during an election GarroHorus Jun 2012 #45
Who cares if there is "ZERO" evidence. That does not mean there is no evidence. hue Jun 2012 #47
Hey.... that also applies to the shooting down of Paul Wellstone's plane! Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #52
This tactic is old. Can't blame you for trying. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #61
Then prove your allegations GarroHorus Jun 2012 #63
OK. I suppose "who cares if there is zero evidence" is a better tactic (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #70
new evidence is being uncovered all the time... hue Jun 2012 #82
Yeah, right GarroHorus Jun 2012 #57
I agree Garro liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #88
No paper trail. Where do you get the evidence? roody Jun 2012 #60
Or reported, not found (not looked for) and not reported. siligut Jun 2012 #89
So the evidence for the evidence is that there is no evidence? Flatulo Jun 2012 #169
"There's no place like home"! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #50
If there is evidence, PRESENT IT! GarroHorus Jun 2012 #56
You mean sworn testimony under oath is not evidence? zeemike Jun 2012 #64
Sworn testimony that something could happen is not evidence that it has happened. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #65
Which goes to opportunity and motive. zeemike Jun 2012 #72
By the legal standard of evidence, there is evidence. Jim Lane Jun 2012 #143
Ol' Garro Caretha Jun 2012 #156
How do you know that? How do we verify that votes have been accurately sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #101
The same way we verify the votes were accurately counted with the old paper ballot. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #105
I'm talking about votes flipping on the machines. Give one instance of when the machines were sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #118
Give one instance where vote flipping actually happened. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #119
So, iow, people cannot verify the votes in those machines. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #122
Sure you can. I did it the last time I used a touch screen GarroHorus Jun 2012 #124
Never ever, with proprietary machines, with proprietary software, owned and maintained by private RC Jun 2012 #131
When you are paid to 'not believe' something and your check depends on it Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #136
Those machines must be destroyed. The Doctor. Jun 2012 #24
I agree, Doctor. Daleks are evil machines. Or did you mean cybermen? (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #53
I lived in a very RED state when the Tea Baggers were taking over. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #26
Instant RunOff Paper Ballots, Marked by Hand, Encrypted Receipts, & Ballots Counted In Public on patrice Jun 2012 #49
I agree that fraud may have been involved, but... hrmjustin Jun 2012 #109
Spending tons of money to alter the results of an election is vote-rigging. nt Comrade_McKenzie Jun 2012 #115
Yes, it's unfortunate that A) unlimited amounts can be spent on an election by anyone, and B) slackmaster Jun 2012 #120
this issue is the ONE librechik Jun 2012 #123
We need Anonymous LiberalLovinLug Jun 2012 #116
I'd never seen an electronic vote machine here in California until 2008 and it was unused where I we ryan_cats Jun 2012 #121
GOP even does it to themselves when needed- Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #137
I just posted this to my facebook ... Clouseau2 Jun 2012 #144
so if the Korporate Konservative xxqqqzme Jun 2012 #146
well written, so glad someone is saying it Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #148
That's because we live in a corporatocracy, not a democracy. valerief Jun 2012 #149
Don't blame me I voted electronically Hubert Flottz Jun 2012 #150
I was dismayed when I saw long-term posters HERE a2liberal Jun 2012 #151
Do you think Paul Wellstone's plane may have been sabotaged? Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #153
Are all the mail-in ballots in Washington tallied by hand? shcrane71 Jun 2012 #159
I'm sure they'll get around to calling it fraud as soon as they label the 2004 Ohio exit poll TrollBuster9090 Jun 2012 #152
Germany outlaws electronic voting 12zelda12 Jun 2012 #154
From the article: Aerows Jun 2012 #165
You mean this part? What they call "the latest PR line from e-voting vendors"? Zorra Jun 2012 #167
K&R Blue Owl Jun 2012 #157
Me too... Without an election system that people believe in, we can't shcrane71 Jun 2012 #180
The same people josejimenez Jun 2012 #163
We could do a massive show-up on our own and count them ourselves. What do you suggest we do? lonestarnot Jun 2012 #164
There may be a window of opportunity. mojowork_n Jun 2012 #170
What to do?! 12zelda12 Jun 2012 #166
The most shocking part is how public opinion polls before the election tritsofme Jun 2012 #168
Yes, it is indeed shocking how they have managed to rig public opinion. slackmaster Jun 2012 #179
kick Angry Dragon Jun 2012 #172
American Exceptionalism at work again! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #173
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Wisconsin: None dare call...»Reply #170