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MineralMan

(149,270 posts)
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 12:01 PM Nov 2016

Looking for improbable ways to keep Trump out of office is a waste of time. [View all]

Since the election, a number of posts have appeared on DU that propose some way of preventing Donald Trump from becoming President. Most of those posts are based on an incorrect understanding of things as basic as the Constitution. Let's look at a few of them:

1. A Presidential Candidate Cannot Be Impeached - Only a sitting President can be impeached, and only for actions while serving as President. Given the Republican control of both houses of Congress, impeachment after he takes office is highly unlikely, unless he shoots someone dead in the Oval Office. Any past criminal activities are irrelevant.

2. The 25th Amendment Cannot Prevent Him from Taking Office - Like impeachment, this amendment only applies to sitting Presidents, not Presidents-elect. Further it would require the Vice President and a majority of the Cabinet to declare that sitting President to be unfit to continue in the office. It was created for situations where the President becomes disabled in some way, not for removing Presidents who are not liked. Consider, too, how likely it would be for a Cabinet selected by the President to declare the man who chose them to be unfit.

3. Recalls in Three States Might Reverse the Election Outcome - While this is technically possible, it is unlikely in the extreme. Statewide recounts occasionally shift the results by a few hundred votes, but almost never by tens of thousands. Further, a recount simply recounts the votes AS CAST. It does not involve investigation into voting irregularities, suppression, or any other shenanigans. Those would require a lengthy investigation, but would not prevent a President-elect from taking office, nor remove a sitting President. It might change how future elections were handled, but will not lead to a removal of a sitting President.

4. Something Irregular Might Be Discovered after the Inauguration to Reverse the Election - A sitting President can only be removed from office through impeachment and conviction or according to the terms of the 25th Amendment. Both are addressed above. Even if there was wholesale election fraud, once the President takes the oath of office, the means of removing a President remain the same.

5. Electors Might Change Their Votes and Reverse the Outcome - This will most assuredly not happen. It's possible that one or two electors will be unfaithful, but there is not a chance that enough will to change the outcome. That is not how things work. It's just not.

6. Donald Trump Might Not Get 270 Electoral Votes for Some Other Reason - That would not matter, and is so unlikely that it's almost unimaginable. Even if it did, it would throw the election into the House of Representatives. If that happened, Donald Trump would win there, too. It's a seriously flawed thing to pin one's hopes upon.

Really, the only way Donald Trump will not be inaugurated will be if the recalls in WI, MI, and PA result in flipping the vote totals. All three of those states. I would not put any money on that happening. The probability of that set of circumstances approaches zero.

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"That is not how things work. It's just not." dumbcat Nov 2016 #1
Well, elections can go however they go. MineralMan Nov 2016 #2
I know that you know the difference between dumbcat Nov 2016 #3
It's possible that the Sun will explode this afternoon at 3:45 PM EST. MineralMan Nov 2016 #4
We realize all these things MFM008 Nov 2016 #5
While you may know all those things, you are probably not MineralMan Nov 2016 #24
well that's you isnt it. MFM008 Nov 2016 #36
Frankly, my dear, I do not give a damn... pbmus Nov 2016 #56
Yes, well, OK then... MineralMan Nov 2016 #58
I'm moving on, so to speak. Trump won and all the conspiracy theories, whining, etc., aren't Hoyt Nov 2016 #6
Yes, I'm afraid you're right BainsBane Nov 2016 #7
I agree, probably there will be deep remorse for those who did not vote or voted for another Thinkingabout Nov 2016 #59
I have to agree Dem2 Nov 2016 #8
At least the recount(s) are a thing now...reading that is better then seeing 80 different threads jmg257 Nov 2016 #9
Recounts are part of the election process. I'm following them, for sure. MineralMan Nov 2016 #32
Thanks for the info! nt jmg257 Nov 2016 #34
I think that with Franken, he was already considered the winner Proud Liberal Dem Nov 2016 #65
Nope. Coleman had more votes in the initial count. MineralMan Nov 2016 #66
I stand corrected. Thanks Proud Liberal Dem Nov 2016 #69
We need to securing the infrastructure that we'll need during our Resistance NightWatcher Nov 2016 #10
We must prepare for keeping communication channels like DU running HipChick Nov 2016 #13
Damn. How many posts like this do you have now? Kingofalldems Nov 2016 #11
Why does that matter to you? MineralMan Nov 2016 #25
It matters because you are framing the issue. bigmonkey Nov 2016 #68
Many, and I stress that I do not mean all, diehard supporters Exilednight Nov 2016 #12
It's all about who is allowed to vote eleny Nov 2016 #14
Not when over 40% of eligible voters stay home. Exilednight Nov 2016 #18
I'm more concerned about all those people who didn't vote MineralMan Nov 2016 #30
Many people do not vote because they do not see a candidate Exilednight Nov 2016 #40
Yes, some do not vote because of that. MineralMan Nov 2016 #41
I have a friend at work who claims he never votes. His excuse? "All politicians are crooks". jonno99 Nov 2016 #63
I bet it's not all about apathy - which of course is one problem eleny Nov 2016 #46
I don't know. Minnesota had the #1 turnout this year, at about MineralMan Nov 2016 #48
If every state had 75% participation Clinton would be president elect right now, imo eleny Nov 2016 #49
Exactly. Time is moving on, and so must we. MineralMan Nov 2016 #26
no, that's just not true bigtree Nov 2016 #15
There were dozens of things that would have disqualified any other candidate. TwilightZone Nov 2016 #16
my experience in politics goes back to Watergate bigtree Nov 2016 #19
Yes! cilla4progress Nov 2016 #29
Thin what you're saying through to its logical end. Exilednight Nov 2016 #44
The less of a mandate he has, the better bhikkhu Nov 2016 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Bob41213 Nov 2016 #20
as the transition crawls along,wonder if the twit has smacked anyone close to him yet. Sunlei Nov 2016 #21
This is ridiculous. Changing the votes and reversing the outcome isn't the only benefit kcr Nov 2016 #22
I don't think the OP expressed opposition to the idea of a recount citood Nov 2016 #35
The OP called it a waste of time. kcr Nov 2016 #70
The Constitution doesn't say anything about WHEN your high crimes had to have occurred jmowreader Nov 2016 #23
Exactly, so looking for ways to block him treestar Nov 2016 #61
This is a time to keep our powder dry, but be prepared to use it jmowreader Nov 2016 #64
There is a thing or two that could be done to prevent Lint Head Nov 2016 #27
Any good reason not to work cilla4progress Nov 2016 #28
On what fronts are you actively working? MineralMan Nov 2016 #31
I am cilla4progress Nov 2016 #37
Nobody has to pass any sort of muster with me. MineralMan Nov 2016 #38
OK, you bet. cilla4progress Nov 2016 #39
Our best option is that Turbineguy Nov 2016 #33
There IS a way to remove him from office. . . DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #42
How about lets all sit back and do nothing but grumble. milestogo Nov 2016 #43
Damn you Bucky Nov 2016 #45
this is why we lose treestar Nov 2016 #47
Once the electoral college votes, then it is impossible to stop trump Gothmog Nov 2016 #50
Thank you ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #51
I appreciate that. Others are damning me over this. MineralMan Nov 2016 #54
Yep, Trump, will be the next president. Whatever happens after that, who knows at this stage ... n/t RKP5637 Nov 2016 #52
Good summary. Chances of any reversal are slim and none... CincyDem Nov 2016 #53
Well, some are already fighting Schumer and Pelosi here. MineralMan Nov 2016 #57
But they don't cut it BainsBane Nov 2016 #62
I happen to agree with this. IMHO the only viable option to stop Trump is #5 NWCorona Nov 2016 #55
The Republicans would never do this treestar Nov 2016 #60
(legitimate) recounts are not about TRump or Hillary; they are about the integrity of the vote. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2016 #67
I agree. Mike Niendorff Nov 2016 #71
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