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sarisataka

(22,839 posts)
45. Bush did something wrong so it is ok for Obama to do something wrong too?
Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:23 PM
Jun 2012

Is that the rational?

Bush's ATF ran Operation wide Receiver from 2006-2007. Estimated 400-500 guns made it into Mexico. Mexican authorities were informed of when the guns crossed the border. No indictments were filed until 2010.

Holder ran F&F from 2009-2011. Estimated ~2000 guns crossed into Mexico but an unknown number remained in the U.S. Neither Mexican authorities nor ATF agents in Mexico were informed the operation was happening. Twenty indictments were filed in January 2011, although none against high-level cartel members, the supposed target of the operation.

Here is the big issue that opened the worm can:

On the evening of December 14, 2010, U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and others were patrolling Peck Canyon, Santa Cruz County, Arizona, 11 miles from the Mexican border. The group came across five suspected illegal immigrants. When they fired non-lethal beanbag guns, the suspects responded with their own weapons, leading to a firefight. Agent Terry was shot and killed; four of the suspects were arrested and two AK-pattern rifles were found nearby. The rifles were traced to Fast and Furious within hours of the shooting, but the bullet that killed Terry was too badly damaged to be linked to either gun.[3]

After hearing of the incident, Agent Dodson reached out to ATF headquarters, ATF's chief counsel, the ATF ethics section and the Justice Department's Office of the Inspector General, none of whom immediately responded. He and other agents then contacted Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa (R–IA), ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who would become a major figure in the investigation of "gunwalking." At the same time, information began leaking to various bloggers and Web sites.[3]

On January 25, 2011, U.S. Attorney Burke announced the first details of the case to become officially public, marking the end of Operation Fast and Furious. At a news conference in Phoenix, he reported a 53-count indictment of 20 suspects for buying hundreds of guns intended for illegal export between September 2009 and December 2010. Newell, who was at the conference, called Fast and Furious a "phenomenal case," while denying that guns had been deliberately allowed to walk into Mexico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Bold 1- Agents attempted to work through the system but were ignored. Had ATF and DOJ looked into the matter, Congress would not have become involved.

Bold 2- the news conference announcing the end of F&F lied about facts the ATF knew. That immediately led to doubt about everything coming from ATF and DOJ and casting a shadow over their transparency and cooperation with inquiries.


IMO Holder should be fired. If he was aware of F&F he should have come forth with that knowledge or kept the operation on track to reach its stated objective. If he was not aware of an operation of this scope, he is not overseeing his duties properly. Also the failure of the ATF and DOJ to reply to agent's ethics reports also causes question of what Holder signals is allowable under his control. Citing EP at this point only gives Repubs ammunition for the upcoming election.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Good. n/t BlueToTheBone Jun 2012 #1
good for Obama! dennis4868 Jun 2012 #2
I'm against it on principle, but will make an exception to troll Issa Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #3
W did it...and riverbendviewgal Jun 2012 #4
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. DinahMoeHum Jun 2012 #5
Well he's the President Bluzmann57 Jun 2012 #6
Like throwing fuel on the fire. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #7
yep TBMASE Jun 2012 #23
My thoughts exactly SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #58
Agreed. It wasn't a big story, now it is. TheWraith Jun 2012 #54
mixed Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #8
I do disagree with part of your PROS statement SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #59
i think it's an unfortunate use of EO b/c it cedes high ground on use of EO nashville_brook Jun 2012 #9
my thoughts exactly. effyounow Jun 2012 #11
F and F was a BUSH op, anyway. This admin shouldn't be taking any more bullets for the Bushies. nashville_brook Jun 2012 #15
but it seems that want to take bullets for it, no? effyounow Jun 2012 #32
Boehner now accusing WH of cover-up. this is what i mean by "unfortunate" -- also uncharacteristic nashville_brook Jun 2012 #13
It's got me wondering just what's in there bigtree Jun 2012 #10
Well, Hannity now has three months of fresh material! bullwinkle428 Jun 2012 #12
@joshtpm just tweeted "Can a cable news network have an orgasm? ... nashville_brook Jun 2012 #17
I believe in transparency in government. He should release the documents. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #14
Showboating... KharmaTrain Jun 2012 #16
I thought this Fast and Furious came under Bush? Autumn Jun 2012 #18
How can he claim executive privilege B2G Jun 2012 #19
Because the DOJ is part of the executive branch (n/t) leftynyc Jun 2012 #46
We never objected when Nixon invoked Executive Privilege... kenny blankenship Jun 2012 #20
We never objected?? B2G Jun 2012 #22
Nixon wasn't impeached TBMASE Jun 2012 #24
I stand corrected B2G Jun 2012 #29
yeah, he would have been TBMASE Jun 2012 #30
I sure hope so. n/t B2G Jun 2012 #31
Weird. I read that it was an era of bipartisan comity- kenny blankenship Jun 2012 #37
The sarcasm smiley is your friend B2G Jun 2012 #38
The Watergate special prosecutor took Nixion straight to the Supreme Court. hack89 Jun 2012 #25
i see what you did there frylock Jun 2012 #42
Do you think the entire concept of executive privilege is nonexistent? NYC Liberal Jun 2012 #60
fucking A madokie Jun 2012 #21
It's a dangerous game if it ends up in court. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #26
In these matters I always ask myself - Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2012 #27
BATF and DEA are too corrupt for their deeds to ever be exposed FarCenter Jun 2012 #28
Stupid, stupid, stupid Prism Jun 2012 #33
The President needs to hold a press conference and give a good explanation as to why he RDANGELO Jun 2012 #34
I completely agree steve2470 Jun 2012 #47
Obama pushed back, and I hope he keeps on pushing. siligut Jun 2012 #35
The problme is that Holder has repeatedly made untrue statements B2G Jun 2012 #39
Do you have a link? siligut Jun 2012 #43
I'm a critic of the President's but I don't know yet know the specifics of exactly... Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #36
He's the most PROGRESSIVE Prez since LBJ if not FDR. You need to PRAISE too and not just criticize. RBInMaine Jun 2012 #64
With all due respect, fuck your telling me or anyone else what they need to do. nt Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #70
What's bad for the goose is bad for the gander. Gold Metal Flake Jun 2012 #40
While it feels good to stick it to Issa kudzu22 Jun 2012 #41
Holder complied with demands... DearAbby Jun 2012 #44
+ AtomicKitten Jun 2012 #51
Bush did something wrong so it is ok for Obama to do something wrong too? sarisataka Jun 2012 #45
Did you notice the wiki article you linked to was last edited today? siligut Jun 2012 #52
Just being lazy sarisataka Jun 2012 #53
My concern ThomasP Jun 2012 #48
DO YOU THINK PRESIDENT ROMNEY WOULD BE BETTER Capt. Obvious Jun 2012 #49
They're keepin' the powder dry on that one, so far. Maybe a "Day 2" kind of thing. Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #50
It looks like a cover-up. His first EP and its this? riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #55
Wow ThomasP Jun 2012 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jun 2012 #57
Unbelievably stupid move badtoworse Jun 2012 #61
I don't care for it Hippo_Tron Jun 2012 #62
This is a BS right wing political witch-hunt with no legs. It is POLICY to not release certain RBInMaine Jun 2012 #63
It will be known as the witch-hunt with no legs! Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2012 #67
President Obama is setting Issa et al up ... GeorgeGist Jun 2012 #65
good on him. spanone Jun 2012 #66
My take? Hmm... whatchamacallit Jun 2012 #68
A brilliant and politically transparent move. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #69
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