General Discussion

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)

20. You're right, we can't gain votes doing that. We have no control of the narrative.

Sat Dec 17, 2016, 05:33 AM

Dec 2016

In the 2016 we didn't suffer because of a message that was inherently flawed from either a social or economic perspective. We suffered because of a candidate who just wasn't competitive in the vulnerable states we had to win. You may recall I didn't support either Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton in the primaries.

The images people see that turn them off the Democrats are not things under our control. We have however take solace in that they tend to go dormant for decades at a time.

I did read it, but it is as simple as I painted it. That stupid video clip was played over and over again for weeks and it hit every single checkbox that made it useful to the right. The archetypal blue-collar middle American saw everything the Republicans wanted them to see and made sure they saw it repeatedly.

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Can we craft a stronger economic justice message WITHOUT throwing anyone under the bus? [View all] Ken Burch Dec 2016 OP

Most voters liked the Dem platform on economics. Wasn't number #1 issue. bettyellen Dec 2016 #1

Of course we can, elleng Dec 2016 #2

This isn't really the problem Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #3

People who know not of what they speak- shouldn't loyalsister Dec 2016 #5

You are right, of course, and thanks for the truth, but that poster won't listen. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #7

If your purpose on this planet is to breath life into the right's favorite Nixon era strawmen Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #11

What's the alternative? Are we supposed to say protest is intolerable? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #14

I am hardly fixated on this person Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #15

There's no way to "cleave away" from the left and still be different from the right. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #18

that is ridiculous Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #26

The issue is optics, there is no nuanced discussion to be had Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #9

We couldn't stand for anything progressive if we anathemized activists. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #13

We don't even have an opportunity to tailor our message in that way Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #16

There's no way to be progressive and disown the left at the same time. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #19

See: Europe Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #22

And every ''center-left" party in Europe is in long-term and irreversible decline. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #24

Who said anything about Stalinism? Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #25

There's no one to Corbyn's right who'd have Labour in a stronger place in the polls. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #36

Any Labour leader holding May firmly to account on Brexit would poll stronger Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #48

Long term and irreversible? Show us your crystal ball and we might believe that. stevenleser Dec 2016 #39

Not "an election or two"-a trend that goes back to at least 2000. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #42

No.Center Left has control of parliaments in France & Italy, part of government in Belgium & Germany stevenleser Dec 2016 #44

Hollande's party is way behind in the polls and has no chance of recovering before the next election Ken Burch Dec 2016 #45

After just winning an election in France. You can't claim what you wrote based on stevenleser Dec 2016 #46

Here is the polling in the run-up to the German election, which will happen this year: Ken Burch Dec 2016 #50

I think I have proven you wrong on all of that. But here is the bigger joke. What is the far left stevenleser Dec 2016 #59

Depends on what you mean by "far left" Ken Burch Dec 2016 #61

No, it doesn't. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #62

No WHAT doesn't? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #64

The optics of protests tends to play into the right's narritive Trekologer Dec 2016 #31

Optics? loyalsister Dec 2016 #17

How do you propose changing that? Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #27

LBJ saw the southern strategy coming and stood on the right side of justice anyway loyalsister Dec 2016 #28

I'm not actually suggesting anything Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #29

that is probably an argument some southern Democrat made to LBJ loyalsister Dec 2016 #30

That was a very different situation Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #32

The topic was demonizing protesters loyalsister Dec 2016 #33

We don't have an opportunity to distance ourselves or demonize them Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #34

You either stand with them or you don't loyalsister Dec 2016 #37

It doesn't matter what we do, we are not a part of this. Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #38

No, the topic is, "Are protests now counterproductive?" The GOP seems to have a strategy stevenleser Dec 2016 #40

The original response I replied to was a photo demonizing a specific protester loyalsister Dec 2016 #47

Whether you choose to acknowledge this or not those types of images are a problem Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #49

So, the image of the opposition to oppress on is a problem? loyalsister Dec 2016 #51

being useful idiots for Roger Ailes is a problem Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #52

I know MU protesters personally loyalsister Dec 2016 #53

There is no progressive cause that is well served by helping elect Republicans Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #54

I think you're very confused about who helps republicans loyalsister Dec 2016 #55

I'm not the one who is confused Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #56

So what if they do loyalsister Dec 2016 #57

We're going in circles Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #60

Yes we are loyalsister Dec 2016 #63

How many threads have you spammed that post into today, Walter? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #6

You're talking about tailoring a message Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #8

Trump owns everyone on the right, most of whom are far scarier than one harmless faculty advisor. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #12

You're right, we can't gain votes doing that. We have no control of the narrative. Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #20

What were we suppose to do, have Hillary vilify the woman? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #21

I'm not suggesting we do that at all, don't even acknowledge them Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2016 #23

Surely it's possible loyalsister Dec 2016 #4

Thanks, loyalsister. elleng Dec 2016 #10

Some of us can. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #35

Yep. And I never expected that to be advocated by a group numbering more than 1 or 2 here. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #41

Absolutely kcr Dec 2016 #43

We've got to throw the "haves" under the bus. ileus Dec 2016 #58