General Discussion

NanceGreggs

(27,835 posts)

32. We already know why.

Reply to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:12 AM

Dec 2016

And that's the point.

Hillary "lost" because voters in low-populated states are weighted to count for more than one vote. This isn't a "probable factor" - it is THE factor. The ONLY thing that prevented HRC from becoming POTUS IS the EC - there is NO OTHER obstacle standing in the way of the candidate who got the MOST votes from being inaugurated.

You want to "objectively examine" all possible factors? You might try starting with the MOST obvious factor of all: the EC voting against the will of the People.

I am particularly amused by those who didn't support HRC/Dems because they were "too Establishment" now claiming that an antiquated "establishment" system like the EC should take precedence (or presidence) over the clear choice of actual voters.

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Hillary Rodham Clinton ... [View all] NanceGreggs Dec 2016 OP

I wonder too...........I have no answers at all, my dear Nance... CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2016 #1

Me thinks the trolls are working overtime. AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #2

No one's ignoring the fact Nance, not at all. Hillary is to be acknowledged and congratulated for winning the popular vote... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #3

Maybe re-read the full original post fallrey Dec 2016 #6

Surrogates don't count, sorry, they just don't... folks expect to see their candidate glad handing and EARNING their votes, plain and simple. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #10

+1 berksdem Dec 2016 #162

Clinton didn't visit Wisconsin in the general election season. Barack_America Dec 2016 #11

That was regrettable for Hillary not to campaign there. It's called taking voters for granted... never a good idea. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #18

Hillary & her fellow high-level campaign associates. Please repudiate this if you can. If you can't, NBachers Dec 2016 #72

She didn't visit me in Toronto, either ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #66

How many electoral votes does Toronto have? Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #150

+1. nt MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #189

You're point being what? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #238

It's very nice to hear that an educated, strongly self identified and politically active, Democrat Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #240

Oh, FFS! NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #241

Thanks, NanceGreggs Rorey Dec 2016 #156

"Maybe if the people in Wisconsin could be bothered" MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #188

In canada? fescuerescue Dec 2016 #193

If she had mcar Dec 2016 #135

Exactly. Damned if she does. Damned if she doesn't. Hillary just can't catch a break. eom BlueCaliDem Dec 2016 #181

Thank you for reminding everyone. She took them for granted-- too bad for us. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #160

No ones ignoring her razor thin losses in three crucial states. bettyellen Dec 2016 #7

Well, Trump is president-elect pintobean Dec 2016 #24

That's inaccurate. The result itself and our loss is huge. Hers, not so much to be truthful. bettyellen Dec 2016 #88

It's ridiculous to say she spent more time here in California Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #124

soooo, voter suppression tactics, questionable machines, russian interference, none of these niyad Dec 2016 #175

I think her strategy didn't ebbie15644 Dec 2016 #210

Agreed. ogradda Dec 2016 #214

Voter Suppression erpowers Dec 2016 #212

I do not believe voter suppression was a factor in PA unless ebbie15644 Dec 2016 #217

oh don't you know, Nance? Skittles Dec 2016 #4

We don't count? yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #20

Plus 1000 JustAnotherGen Dec 2016 #93

lol JHan Dec 2016 #101

that one amazes me treestar Dec 2016 #108

Yeah, I don't get that one, either, and as a Californian, Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #126

Not sure they are on our side or ever were. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #5

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #33

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #65

In 2013 Supreme Court decision which struck down a key provision in the voters rights act. still_one Dec 2016 #73

So who did you vote for? still_one Dec 2016 #74

OBAMA in 2012 didn't get the votes that he did in 2008 -- when the economy pnwmom Dec 2016 #82

absolutely agree. niyad Dec 2016 #176

So, Dems should prioritize a popular vote victory over an EC win? Barack_America Dec 2016 #8

Yes, it's just the way the rules are written - as unfair as that may be - so, it's best to play AND STRATEGIZE, according to the rules... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #14

To many maggot MFM008 Dec 2016 #9

It's not a question of connecting with voters - clearly, The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #12

Thank you TVO, you said it a HELL of a lot better than I did above. The sooner people wake up to these facts, instead of ignoring them, the sooner we can get on to winning back the Presidency. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #21

40,000 Trump voters actually. triron Dec 2016 #28

We already know why. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #32

You won't find me defending the EC. It's antiquated and obsolete The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #41

What went wrong in those three states? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #78

That's another question that needs to be answered. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #164

Here are the vote totals for Minnesota MineralMan Dec 2016 #187

One of the best posts I've seen on this divisive topic True Dough Dec 2016 #79

Your very cogent points have not been addressed. Tatiana Dec 2016 #151

Agreed! This map shows it all. Even John Podesta said... RiverStone Dec 2016 #185

The electricity that should have surrounded her candidacy was pretty squelched in 2008 LisaM Dec 2016 #191

"claiming that an antiquated "establishment" system like the EC should take precedence" MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #190

The water is way too cloudy to examine anything objectively elmac Dec 2016 #53

Why is a vote in Wyoming worth more than a vote in California? DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #90

The reason why small states have more clout is because the framers of the Constitution had to totodeinhere Dec 2016 #231

Well said. Bottom line is, we lost. Captain Stern Dec 2016 #129

Why are you repeating Trumpian talking-points that "California Doesn't Count?" emulatorloo Dec 2016 #170

"Trumpian talking points"? The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #180

Madam President in my books and how I will refer to her! mfcorey1 Dec 2016 #13

That is right, In my home elmac Dec 2016 #56

Hillary's message was strong and true.. Thank you, Nance Cha Dec 2016 #15

DU Rec In_The_Wind Dec 2016 #19

Mahalo, Sweetie! Love Cha Dec 2016 #22

This is the truth in a very concise nutshell. riverbendviewgal Dec 2016 #30

Yes, it is, riverbendviewgal.. Mahalo! Cha Dec 2016 #31

I'm going to post this everywhere I can. n/t Mr. Evil Dec 2016 #67

Thank you, Mr. Evil.. and another thing.. Cha Dec 2016 #69

I'd respect Thom Hartmann more if he'd stop broadcasting on Russia Today. Fla Dem Dec 2016 #143

Yes! All this shit to attack one fine woman who would have done and outstanding job as president. Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #117

That's right, Madam.. and this.. the gop have been working on Voter Suppression for years Cha Dec 2016 #136

she did win the popular vote DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #16

Good post LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #84

I think this election brings the EC into focus treestar Dec 2016 #113

yes the founders were wrong DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #213

Yes and they could not know treestar Dec 2016 #220

I like a fighter Protalker Dec 2016 #17

Not a Majority, a plurality masmdu Dec 2016 #23

Or... If 80,000 people in those three states weren't quite as fucking stupid, she would have won world wide wally Dec 2016 #25

KNR Lucinda Dec 2016 #26

Her entire margin of victory came from BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #27

why do people in California count less than racist repuke voters? Skittles Dec 2016 #34

That's the system in place BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #36

if you voted for Trump you ENDORSE racism and misogyny Skittles Dec 2016 #59

It wasn't necessarily those voting for Trump Chico Man Dec 2016 #127

Because the United States is not a democracy TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2016 #182

And Trump's ENTIRE margin of Electoral College victory came from 80,000 voters. pnwmom Dec 2016 #35

They shouldn't BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #37

Your state engaged in deliberate and inexcusable voter suppression. pnwmom Dec 2016 #39

It has passed one house BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #42

Your state engaged in voter suppression. That's why the Rethugs won there. pnwmom Dec 2016 #44

But consider Minnesota. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #64

If something is not just, it needs to be changed treestar Dec 2016 #112

And if that's your margin in the PV, good luck governing BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #38

It seems strange BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #40

We won the Senate PV by 11 points nationally and lost 22 of 24 elections to R incumbents BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #47

yeah thanks for the maggot MI MFM008 Dec 2016 #43

As a soon to be ex Michigander elmac Dec 2016 #57

Elmac MFM008 Dec 2016 #58

I know, I'm surrounded by them elmac Dec 2016 #61

I keep reading the ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #45

You;re missing the point BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #49

I am not missing the point ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #52

They are unrepresentative of the whole BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #55

What they are representative of ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #76

Voters who don't win extra points under the current system BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #86

I've never thought of myself ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #89

It it not just that she won the popular vote.. JHan Dec 2016 #99

YES. I agree that it makes more sense to look at this as an urban Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #145

I think you said that better than I ever could.. JHan Dec 2016 #146

Aw, thanks. I just thought you were making an extremely important point! Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #148

And hey... Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #159

Bravo BeardofJ, Your analysis rings true BREMPRO Dec 2016 #62

Uhm JHan Dec 2016 #100

Elitist coastal thinking? Really? Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #147

+1 leftstreet Dec 2016 #83

Midwesterners cannot figure out that the ACA helped them, rather like a New Deal program Kolesar Dec 2016 #140

Yep jack_krass Dec 2016 #174

Remember when DU was founded due to a guy losing the popular vote winning? joshcryer Dec 2016 #29

Yes. And no one here was saying that it was Gore's fault or pnwmom Dec 2016 #46

It was unquestionably the Supreme Court's fault. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #51

Clearly that election was stolen by the SCOTUS....what brought me to DU. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #85

and Gore's popular vote total was treestar Dec 2016 #109

Some were IronLionZion Dec 2016 #200

Of late ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #50

Not really melman Dec 2016 #183

After the electors vote humbled_opinion Dec 2016 #48

I caught a recent Ed Schultz video ( and the last one I will watch) elmac Dec 2016 #60

That's the effect of Clinton hate.. JHan Dec 2016 #102

Oh, I believe we can count on some Democrats supporting him. That's a given. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #168

Honestly, I think the magic moment that threw the election to the Con was Comey's napi21 Dec 2016 #54

Kick...interesting thread. Upthevibe Dec 2016 #71

I seem to recall... StarzGuy Dec 2016 #63

You wonder why? Its really simple. The criticism you hear is due to her losing the election. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #68

Hillary did connect with the voters. ... spin Dec 2016 #70

Hillary Was Weak on Trade DallasNE Dec 2016 #75

Ah, yes, my mistake. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #77

Bernie Did Show Her The Way On Trade DallasNE Dec 2016 #87

Voters who prioritized Economic concerns preferred her.. JHan Dec 2016 #97

Trump voters did not vote based on trade mcar Dec 2016 #138

+1 TonyPDX Dec 2016 #172

We are the majority and the GOP is the minority on the side of this election. ffr Dec 2016 #80

Yes. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #81

Lots of posters saying California voters are superfluous. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #91

Some people are saying the few most popullous states should choose the POTUS jack_krass Dec 2016 #98

I am seeing a lot of GOP talking points in these environs recently DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #105

the EC is NOT a GOP thing FFS, it forces candidates to appeal broadly, jack_krass Dec 2016 #115

I wasn't suggesting you are a Republican. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #122

My bad then :) But I think the EC is screaming at us to broaden the message and win more jack_krass Dec 2016 #128

I would like to see the whole nation blue. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #134

The conservatives in my orbit confirm this: TonyPDX Dec 2016 #179

Yes Yes and Yes! NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #184

no, states don't matter to people like they did in 1789 treestar Dec 2016 #110

What about your "overly poweful" Senate vote? Gonna give that up too? jack_krass Dec 2016 #116

I would treestar Dec 2016 #121

"I would" well at least your consistent jack_krass Dec 2016 #130

I'd pretend that to be the case as well if I too had difficulty following basic English conversation LanternWaste Dec 2016 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author jack_krass Dec 2016 #118

Because a whole lot of Democrats were stubbornly in the Never Hillary camp salster Dec 2016 #92

Since america is divided into different dimensions zippythepinhead Dec 2016 #94

They want to use Clinton's "loss" as an excuse to dismantle the party leadership baldguy Dec 2016 #95

Yeah.. and it's not going to work. Cha Dec 2016 #232

I have to wonder why this isn't in the postmortem forum. Vinca Dec 2016 #96

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #103

she didnt win it by enough in the places needed bowens43 Dec 2016 #104

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #131

Oh bullshit. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #133

Oh stop with the bullshit conspiracies and whining. JTFrog Dec 2016 #137

This is THE truth. FourScore Dec 2016 #149

I agree. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #154

Thank you Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #106

Right on, it was simply the fluke of the weird Electoral College treestar Dec 2016 #107

She won California, not the entire country BRToldschool Dec 2016 #114

California is a state treestar Dec 2016 #123

Thank you. Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #166

and the EC was designed to protect the slave-holding landowner class, a fact that is forgotten niyad Dec 2016 #177

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #226

All this shit to attack one fine woman who would have done and outstanding job as president. Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #119

It's not right, it's not fair, and I absolutely hate it, but currently it's the rules of the game. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #120

Exactly. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #169

It's simple Chico Man Dec 2016 #125

I've seen her vote total dismissed because it was CA and NY mcar Dec 2016 #132

K&R n/t JTFrog Dec 2016 #139

2,864,978. Our Platform Won! Coyotl Dec 2016 #141

Whats this chart trying to say? California is a very, very populpus state, ... jack_krass Dec 2016 #167

It is trying to say exactly what the words read. Coyotl Dec 2016 #178

Exactly keepthemhonestO Dec 2016 #142

She won the primary and popular vote in the general by millions. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #144

At best, HRC won (popular vote). At worst, she lost an exaggerated tie (electoral college). no_hypocrisy Dec 2016 #152

If the EV/popular votet totals were reversed, you'd be singing a different tune. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #153

Yes, it was a perfect campaign... RazBerryBeret Dec 2016 #155

It certainly has been a bizarre election cycle, starting way way back when outsiders decided.... George II Dec 2016 #157

no enthusiasm AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #158

Maybe it's time for federal election reform? mwooldri Dec 2016 #161

I certainly don't blame Hillary, but I don't support overturning... LAS14 Dec 2016 #163

The reason is because popular votes means nothing in the USA... Joe941 Dec 2016 #165

MISOGYNY, for one. dino's for another niyad Dec 2016 #171

k and r + several gazillion niyad Dec 2016 #173

Yes deist99 Dec 2016 #186

I don't think anyone ignores that fact fescuerescue Dec 2016 #192

K&R nt ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2016 #194

I cannot K&R this post BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #195

It's in the constitution and we were expecting to win big IronLionZion Dec 2016 #196

My OP isn't about fighting the EC ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #197

Nance, Majority of voters isn't enough IronLionZion Dec 2016 #199

Yet again, the OP ISN'T about a win or a loss ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #206

Connecting more with voters in PA, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin IronLionZion Dec 2016 #208

Kick for today Hekate Dec 2016 #198

K & R SunSeeker Dec 2016 #201

3 million illegals!!! budkin Dec 2016 #202

Florida... Blanks Dec 2016 #203

BOOM!!!! All I can say is you are wrong on so many fronts. You are blaming KPN Dec 2016 #204

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You're the BEST, Nance. 11 Bravo Dec 2016 #205

She needs to stay on the scene and do rallies. gulliver Dec 2016 #207

We cannot let anyone forget or dismiss this accomplishment Gothmog Dec 2016 #209

Kick for Hillary! Thanks Nance! Cha Dec 2016 #211

I keep telling people she won the PV, they don't like hearing it. Rex Dec 2016 #215

I think it keeps coming back to her being a 68 year old woman who thought she was ehrnst Dec 2016 #216

What we have just seen in action ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #222

Yes, Hillary was always given the benefit of suspicion, when it was never given to her ehrnst Dec 2016 #239

i dont know what to think about a lot of this anymore. nt 7962 Dec 2016 #218

Maybe it was the smugness. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #219

............. Oh yeah that makes perfect sense... yeah perfect... JHan Dec 2016 #221

Whose "smugness" are you talking about? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #223

The smugness of the so called "liberal elite"... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #233

Some jobs are obsolete. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #234

I'm talking about good paying factory jobs. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #235

Well, no need to worry now. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #236

He doesn't CARE about the working class.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #237

The smugness of the stein voters who are so gd self-centered Cha Dec 2016 #228

K&R Gothmog Dec 2016 #224

No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump. Gothmog Dec 2016 #225

K&R... spanone Dec 2016 #227

Deplorable dipshits were predisposed to vote for Trump. Hill would oasis Dec 2016 #229

She was portrayed as a monster. Or worse. War Horse Dec 2016 #230

. . . . niyad Dec 2016 #242