General Discussion

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)

100. And your ideas for abolishing the EC are?

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:27 PM

Dec 2016

You seem more willing to live with a system that imposes morally illegitimate government on the nation that consider reforming it. And sadly in a system that's both antidemocratic and virtually reformproof... there are only three options that can move us to a popular vote. 1: An amendment. It's been tried close to 1000 times and it will never get out of Congress or be ratified. 2: The Popular Vote interstate compact which will fall apart once a state is forced to vote for a candidate their state did. 3: A constitutional crisis... and California threatening secession is the only way I can think of because of all states CA is treated the worst under our federal system and its location makes it possible that it could exist as a separate entity.

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Should California Threaten Secession To Abolish Electoral College? [View all] eniwetok Dec 2016 OP

I totally agree with you rusty fender Dec 2016 #1

Yes Calculating Dec 2016 #2

The EC was created to benefit whites in slave states. eniwetok Dec 2016 #4

You're correct. MovingForward2020 Dec 2016 #225

What happens to Camp Pendleton? Vandenberg? Yosemite? Redwoods? malchickiwick Dec 2016 #3

Please Note... I said THREATEN Secession... n/a eniwetok Dec 2016 #6

Wouldn't you have to answer those Qs to have said threat taken seriously?? malchickiwick Dec 2016 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author WillowTree Dec 2016 #11

So.......what? You're suggesting an empty threat that you don't intend to follow through on? WillowTree Dec 2016 #14

why would it be empty... eniwetok Dec 2016 #29

My Dear Old Dad taught me never to threaten. WillowTree Dec 2016 #36

What is really dangerously silly is this guy.. pbmus Dec 2016 #82

I didn't think Texas or the current OP is "silly". Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #84

You cannot be serious Hekate Dec 2016 #115

I am. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #132

it is silly x 10 sweetapogee Dec 2016 #240

Why just California? There can be further negotiations. A divorce, not war. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #244

i didn't say anything sweetapogee Dec 2016 #246

My apologies. I didn't mean you were implying war. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #249

CA LOSES money to the federal government eniwetok Dec 2016 #315

Not entirely silly. Think about it. brush Dec 2016 #332

Military installations are federal property, Washington isn't going to just let them go... Marengo Dec 2016 #39

Nitpicking... eniwetok Dec 2016 #49

Pure fantasy, and see post 39 for most likely outcome. After defeat, CA won't have any power... Marengo Dec 2016 #61

the pure fantasy is all yours eniwetok Dec 2016 #81

LOL! Let us know when you will be speaking with Gov Brown, and what his response to your idea Marengo Dec 2016 #87

Really? MFM008 Dec 2016 #101

Are you predicting Jay Inslee will threaten secession, and if it comes to that, secession will... Marengo Dec 2016 #106

No MFM008 Dec 2016 #158

The topic of the exchange was secession if you didn't notice. Marengo Dec 2016 #239

I don't think you know the meaning of the word credible. onenote Dec 2016 #191

45.8% of California is federally owned sl8 Dec 2016 #142

Lawsuits MFM008 Dec 2016 #159

In what court? onenote Dec 2016 #193

Very important rule pipi_k Dec 2016 #22

Sure... and I never intended the word "threaten" to be an empty threat. eniwetok Dec 2016 #32

Then, back to the questions in post #3 dumbcat Dec 2016 #35

and your suggestion to abolish the EC is? eniwetok Dec 2016 #50

Nice deflect, but dumbcat Dec 2016 #57

and part of my OP was... eniwetok Dec 2016 #64

Not a bad idea LeftInTX Dec 2016 #51

You can't effectively threaten something fescuerescue Dec 2016 #65

even more importantly. You can't effectively threaten something you can't achieve. onenote Dec 2016 #192

All those things will be privatized under Trump/Republicans/Koch KittyWampus Dec 2016 #63

Vandenberg alone would be worth Uncle Sam fighting to keep Hekate Dec 2016 #114

they would be nationalized; happens all the time. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #131

Yeah, like that time the Confederacy "nationalized" Fort Sumter. n/t malchickiwick Dec 2016 #133

things do change after 150 years. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #148

Camp Pendleton pays rent to the Republic of California Merlot Dec 2016 #201

Wow. You figured it out! We sure could have used you back in 1861... malchickiwick Dec 2016 #321

Things were different then, and slavery isn't on the table. Merlot Dec 2016 #373

We take them. What are they going to do? The_Casual_Observer Dec 2016 #301

Try googling "U.S. Civil War" and you'll see what they're going to do. malchickiwick Dec 2016 #322

If you bother to read up on history.... eniwetok Apr 2017 #381

For the record: I am a professor of U.S. History malchickiwick Apr 2017 #382

I wasn't the one who resurrected this thread... eniwetok Apr 2017 #383

California and New York are probably the two states, maybe a couple of others, that ... brush Dec 2016 #331

The problem with that idea is that a lot of people in this nation... spin Dec 2016 #5

Not at first moda253 Dec 2016 #8

They would damn sure miss our tax dollars. I don't give two shits if they care. onecaliberal Dec 2016 #13

We on the west coast MFM008 Dec 2016 #104

Please be sure to acknowledge Hawaii, New Mexico, Nevada and Colorado.... Tikki Dec 2016 #167

Of course MFM008 Dec 2016 #252

I suspect you're wrong. eniwetok Dec 2016 #19

While it might work out well for some states like California to secede from the union... spin Dec 2016 #30

and this is the crux of the problem eniwetok Dec 2016 #43

I understand your point. The problem is that you have to convince those people ... spin Dec 2016 #54

Getting rid of the Articles Of Confederation was also seen as impossible... eniwetok Dec 2016 #62

You and I may agree that the Eloctoral College is dysfunctional... spin Dec 2016 #76

I suspect it's the GOPers in those states... eniwetok Dec 2016 #140

All good points. ... spin Dec 2016 #197

I worry more about the Dems! eniwetok Dec 2016 #285

They would damn sure miss our ports, food, entertainment, and high tech. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #23

Are you even sure that if California decided to leave the union ... spin Dec 2016 #40

Even the GOPers in CA would benefit... eniwetok Dec 2016 #45

Which would never happen MFM008 Dec 2016 #105

I don't have any "beef" with California. ... spin Dec 2016 #120

Almost every state is like that first map--blue in urban areas, red in the rural. yurbud Dec 2016 #328

a better way to go would be to figure out what those red district people want that fits our values yurbud Dec 2016 #329

If Texas were not in the union, Hillary would have won by 2 votes in the Electoral College. pnwmom Dec 2016 #357

I suspect many Democrats would love to see Texas secede and many ... spin Dec 2016 #366

Would they become part of Mexico? HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #9

Please stay and be a beacon of liberty and freedom for the rest of us. roamer65 Dec 2016 #10

The Catch 22 eniwetok Dec 2016 #17

Fuck yeah. The entire west coast ghostsinthemachine Dec 2016 #12

Right there with you MFM008 Dec 2016 #162

YES!!!!!!!!! ailsagirl Dec 2016 #257

Isn't some guy in Russia behind this idea? Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #15

Well, he's living in Russia, anyway. KamaAina Dec 2016 #38

Yep! Conservative activist living in Russia and opened a CA "embassy" in Russia Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #41

No. secessionist movements are no less stupid onenote Dec 2016 #16

Fine... and your suggestion to abolish the EC is....? n/a eniwetok Dec 2016 #18

My suggestion is that we redouble our efforts to win onenote Dec 2016 #24

So your idea is to game, not ever reform, the EC eniwetok Dec 2016 #73

And what is your realistic strategy for achieving EC reform onenote Dec 2016 #107

So you have NO suggestions for abolishing the EC. eniwetok Dec 2016 #184

You suggested nonsense. onenote Dec 2016 #189

all your red herrings have been addressed... eniwetok Dec 2016 #202

If as you admit secession isn't the point, how does threatening secession accomplish anything onenote Dec 2016 #216

The goalposts seem to be pipi_k Dec 2016 #217

Just wondering... pipi_k Dec 2016 #223

and give repubs a head start on every singe presidential election? no thanks. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #154

So how do you achieve electoral college reform u onenote Dec 2016 #177

EC reform is the unobtainable goal; red states will NEVER go for it, because it benefits them, TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #274

Every single presidential election. Except four of the preceding six. onenote Dec 2016 #294

reading comprehension; didn't say we can't ever win or haven't ever won; what i said TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #299

And we get a "head start" in places like New York and California onenote Dec 2016 #309

um, yes, because we have more HUMAN democratic voters there; small states get more EC votes per HUMA TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #338

We could have won by 5 million votes and still lost the electoral college. pnwmom Dec 2016 #359

In case you don't remember the courts dismantled the voting rights act in 2013. pnwmom Dec 2016 #358

gerrymandering wasn't a factor in Trump vote, voter suppression certainly was. eniwetok Dec 2016 #369

The US pays social security to American citizens living abroad Merlot Dec 2016 #206

I think replacing Social Security and Medicare would be more easily accomplished if CA left nbsmom Dec 2016 #296

Yes, particularly if they can take Oregon and Washington with them. avebury Dec 2016 #20

How will those states pay for things like social security. onenote Dec 2016 #26

If Trump wants the use of the west coast ports avebury Dec 2016 #60

Where would your power come from? oneshooter Dec 2016 #121

possession is 9/10 of the law, and what "grid" are you talking about? sure, there would need TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #160

California gets a LOT of it's power from other states. oneshooter Dec 2016 #170

ok, well, they better start building some power plants. it's not impossible. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #275

And will take between five and ten years to bring on line. n/t oneshooter Dec 2016 #287

i fully understand that; it's not going to happen tomorrow, but it is possible. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #300

And as as a newly minted country your credit to fund such projects is extreamly limited. oneshooter Dec 2016 #318

CA loses money to federal government eniwetok Dec 2016 #323

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #339

The Western power Grid oneshooter Dec 2016 #172

where did you go to law school? onenote Dec 2016 #190

you seriously think the law matters in this country? it's might makes right, unfortunately. in any c TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #277

Naive. onenote Dec 2016 #293

whatever; gee how do small countries ever survive? nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #302

Gee. Small countries wouldn't survive if they were subject to trade embargoes. onenote Dec 2016 #308

maybe YOU need to get out more eniwetok Dec 2016 #324

well, that's a big "if." i suppose we could just nuke small countries tomorrow... maybe trump will.. TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #340

and your plan for abolish the EC is what? eniwetok Dec 2016 #83

Maggot MFM008 Dec 2016 #165

California gives more to the Federal government than it gets back NobodyHere Dec 2016 #266

You've got to be kidding. onenote Dec 2016 #268

you're the one who's got to be kiiding; you think CA is a free-loader on this country? nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #279

I think you have no idea what would be involved in creating onenote Dec 2016 #292

Ummm, no. California wouldn't have to come up with any funds. nbsmom Dec 2016 #297

Even more so with the east coast states like NY. duffyduff Dec 2016 #276

So California sarisataka Dec 2016 #21

I hope so pintobean Dec 2016 #205

No Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2016 #25

Glad you raised the point about the Democrats NobodyHere Dec 2016 #97

Nobody should *want* any state to secede Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2016 #98

And your ideas for abolishing the EC are? eniwetok Dec 2016 #100

Republicans would happily let CA go. former9thward Dec 2016 #27

What if it encourages the the rest of the West Coast and blue East Coast to secede? DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #28

No most industry is in the middle, not the coasts. former9thward Dec 2016 #31

If you remove the GDP DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #34

We could debate this all day but it doesn't work that way. former9thward Dec 2016 #48

i think it would be great; are you seriously worried that we wouldn't be "the greatest" anymore? TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #280

I've been fantasizing about "Cascadia" MrModerate Dec 2016 #33

I agree, too lake loon Dec 2016 #37

If you recall sarisataka Dec 2016 #42

It's a different scenario now lake loon Dec 2016 #47

I bet that is what sarisataka Dec 2016 #52

Don't fall for this ruse! Right wing activist living in Russia started this Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #44

NONSENSE! eniwetok Dec 2016 #55

LOL! Again: From His Home in Russia, #Calexit Leader Plots California Secession Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #70

This message was self-deleted by its author Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #71

Yep, that's the ticket. billh58 Dec 2016 #46

How would citizenship work? HeartachesNhangovers Dec 2016 #53

No. It should culturally annex Arizona, however. Hortensis Dec 2016 #56

Hell no ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #58

Don't they teach about the "Civil War" in schools anymore? n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #59

And your ideas are? eniwetok Dec 2016 #67

Never knew John Calhoun was held in such high regard on DU hardluck Dec 2016 #90

RED HERRING ALERT!! eniwetok Dec 2016 #99

If the shoe fits... hardluck Dec 2016 #110

so we can't walk and chew gum at the same time? eniwetok Dec 2016 #116

Yes hardluck Dec 2016 #117

Gee... why do you think I called for desperate measures??? eniwetok Dec 2016 #141

Nope sarisataka Dec 2016 #69

yeah! and the Soviet Union will never break up either!! nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #149

I guess now that the Electoral College is voting, some people will need a new fantasy idea... brooklynite Dec 2016 #66

with that kind of small thinking, we would still be a part of great britain. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #147

Call me what you like. Oakenshield Dec 2016 #283

Infrastructure is too inter-connected for there to be a split. Calista241 Dec 2016 #68

and your idea for abolishing the EC is? eniwetok Dec 2016 #75

How about we run a campaign that takes there electoral college Calista241 Dec 2016 #78

Of COURSE the EC is at fault eniwetok Dec 2016 #93

"....protect itself from Mexico who would probably sacrifice a LOT to annex California." EX500rider Dec 2016 #80

All of which is owned and run by the Federal Government. oneshooter Dec 2016 #122

I bet a lot of National Guard units would defect, equipment and all. EX500rider Dec 2016 #124

I would doubt it. oneshooter Dec 2016 #135

Not necessarily true....when the Soviet Union broke up everyone kept what was on their soil.. EX500rider Dec 2016 #134

i think that's exactly what would/should happen. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #163

The premise isn't about a break up of the US. Calista241 Dec 2016 #209

Cal exit opens "embassy" in Russia Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #72

Wow... you LOVE red baiting, don't you! eniwetok Dec 2016 #77

I don't see it the same way you do! This is a good to know fact! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #86

That's now SIX red baiting posts. eniwetok Dec 2016 #88

You are talking about California Secession also! Am mentioning facts about the leader of Cal-exit Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #89

That's now SEVEN red baiting posts eniwetok Dec 2016 #92

WITH TWELVE, DO YOU GET EGGROLLS? N/T oneshooter Dec 2016 #123

Not egg rolls.... opiate69 Dec 2016 #214

Sure -- Oregon and Washington too. KPN Dec 2016 #74

Hear, hear! I like the way you think. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #79

Yahoo! Lets do it! eom KPN Dec 2016 #198

Perfectly happy to have CA join the Cascadia movement Kilgore Dec 2016 #128

You are very rare up here indeed. KPN Dec 2016 #199

The electoral college is not the problem in this election trc Dec 2016 #85

sure voter suppression played a factor.... BUT eniwetok Dec 2016 #91

The game is rigged though Calculating Dec 2016 #95

the entire system is unfixable eniwetok Dec 2016 #288

agreed, especially since the system benefits repugs and they know it. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #341

the EC *is* the problem; it gives repubs a built in advantage, and that is not going to change. TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #281

The ec victory is the result of republican voter suppression trc Dec 2016 #286

you are totally missing my (and others') point; yes, voter suppression, russian interference TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #298

We agree then: apportionment favors small states, trc Dec 2016 #304

i'm not willing to just accept a permanent disadvantage; repubs will NEVER accept any modification o TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #306

You wrote... eniwetok Dec 2016 #310

I agree, it is reasonable trc Dec 2016 #319

of course it's reasonable, but have you met republicans lately? this country will go down in flames TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #342

Pffft, I would rather see my fine state host the capital.... Brother Buzz Dec 2016 #94

Didn't we make fun of the lunatics in Texas, Georgia and other states Calista241 Dec 2016 #96

How Is This Different? eniwetok Dec 2016 #103

speak for yourself. i have never opposed secession for any state that chooses it. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #151

the OBVIOUS difference is eniwetok Dec 2016 #316

A civil war was fought to hold our union together Motley13 Dec 2016 #102

Sorry, we're not going to get through this eniwetok Dec 2016 #109

And? Will any of that change if CA tries or threatens to leave the Union? Glassunion Dec 2016 #118

leaving aside your civil war fairy tale... eniwetok Dec 2016 #146

The EC isn't going away Ronald G. Phillips Dec 2016 #207

Who was "laughing at coal miners"? DesertRat Dec 2016 #213

Was wondering the same thing. fleabiscuit Dec 2016 #229

the best fix? eniwetok Dec 2016 #254

and the US is 3 times the size it was then; it NEEDS to break up at this point. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #152

Last time anybody tried that it did not end well. davsand Dec 2016 #108

And your ideas for abolishing the EC are???? eniwetok Dec 2016 #111

Why don't you try Article 5 first hardluck Dec 2016 #219

The remedy for the EC is a Constitutional Amendment. Period. davsand Dec 2016 #265

No, Putin and the like want the USA to be weaker flamingdem Dec 2016 #112

must be since I've seen this very discussion here 10-12 years ago. eniwetok Dec 2016 #145

No. But the Central Coast thanks you for asking. Hekate Dec 2016 #113

No, secession is a horrible idea. Glassunion Dec 2016 #119

red herring alert!! eniwetok Dec 2016 #144

False dilemma alert! Glassunion Dec 2016 #221

Please take NM with you. Alice11111 Dec 2016 #125

Well, there is a Russian who would like to help you WhiteTara Dec 2016 #126

The point is not to secede... it's to DEMAND REFORMS n/a eniwetok Dec 2016 #136

No. The Union. WheelWalker Dec 2016 #127

Nice sentiment... but... eniwetok Dec 2016 #137

YES!! Come join us in Cascadia!! Kilgore Dec 2016 #129

absolutely, or simply refuse to comply with fed dictates that go against the will of the people. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #130

you're speaking about nullification eniwetok Dec 2016 #138

i support secession, not just the threat of it, but it seems like nullification might be more possib TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #157

What would be nullified? eniwetok Dec 2016 #173

well, that's up to the citizens of Calitopia, going forward. yes i'm sure it's unconstitutional, but TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #282

There's a bunch of folks who should take up writing sci-fi novels. There's more people in Calif.... Hekate Dec 2016 #139

never suggested that eniwetok Dec 2016 #143

Secession is always a fun academic exercise until ManiacJoe Dec 2016 #150

It's not in the Constitution... eniwetok Dec 2016 #168

I would prefer you remain a beacon of hope for the rest of us Generic Brad Dec 2016 #153

We have a better chance of being hit by lightning than this being an option.. Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #155

and your ideas for abolishing the EC are???? eniwetok Dec 2016 #164

I don't want to abolish the EC..not sure where you got the idea I did. Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #169

my god you certainly can miss the point. eniwetok Dec 2016 #176

I replied to the OP...and to your question Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #178

with that kind of small thinking, we would still be a part of great britain. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #166

Seriously(?)....California citizens are going to take up arms Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #175

RED HERRING ALERT!!! eniwetok Dec 2016 #179

I not only read it....I addressed it....see my post #155... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #183

Sorry... eniwetok Dec 2016 #188

It's been read thourghly...it's a not well thought out idea...even a threat of leaving... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #196

This red-blue state dichotomy is nonsense. eniwetok Dec 2016 #289

I never once claimed it would start a Civil War...you seem to be the 1 not reading Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #186

Yup NOTHING in your post suggested CA secession would cause a civil war eniwetok Dec 2016 #290

I'm sorry..did you miss the fact that the post you C&P'd was a QUESTION to your.. Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #314

so... eniwetok Dec 2016 #317

No..I never did......I asked a question....based on a reference to the Revolution... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #335

"I completely disagree that this would start a civil war" - of course not, because like Texas... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #211

1. other states could go with them. 2. seriously doubt red staters would risk their own lives to sto TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #273

Secession would require either a Constintutional ammendment, or a civil war. still_one Dec 2016 #156

Where is it prohibited in the Constitution? eniwetok Dec 2016 #161

It would be argued that after the Civil War the states entered into an indissoluble still_one Dec 2016 #171

One might think.... and yet... eniwetok Dec 2016 #174

Good point, but if we do it, we might want to do it while the SC is still 4 + 4 still_one Dec 2016 #180

That decision will be 8-0 against the idea... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #345

correct; it is not prohibited; the founding documents of this country specifically provide for the p TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #284

If they want to be selfish ass holes, sure. MadBadger Dec 2016 #181

another person who didn't bother to read the OP n/t eniwetok Dec 2016 #185

Calexit sounds just as stupid as Texit. js romanic Dec 2016 #182

I Changed The Title Of The OP Because... eniwetok Dec 2016 #187

The title and OP was read thoroughly sarisataka Dec 2016 #218

Also... pipi_k Dec 2016 #224

if you want to play number games... eniwetok Dec 2016 #234

Yeah, we get it pipi_k Dec 2016 #237

at some point PRINCIPLE matters. eniwetok Dec 2016 #245

Um...really? pipi_k Dec 2016 #263

Translation: you intend to live with more Bush and Trump Juntas... eniwetok Dec 2016 #232

I live in the real world sarisataka Dec 2016 #236

Last I heard it's not 1787... so who cares? eniwetok Dec 2016 #247

I told you how to change sarisataka Dec 2016 #258

Wou really think I haven't looked at your "approach"? eniwetok Dec 2016 #278

Your mask is slipping... sarisataka Dec 2016 #291

No... that's YOUR take... not mine. eniwetok Dec 2016 #311

Also... pipi_k Dec 2016 #264

living in it and changing it are not mutually exclusive, but thanks for the negativity. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #307

Financially NobodyHere Dec 2016 #267

hey, if making threats without any intention of following through can be effective onenote Dec 2016 #194

try reading the thread... eniwetok Dec 2016 #200

I"ve read it. And I've yet to see you explain how your idea onenote Dec 2016 #215

Hey, I've got an even better one. onenote Dec 2016 #195

Are you scared? Lanius Dec 2016 #204

one person one vote is a joke.... eniwetok Dec 2016 #210

What if the Electoral College is updated? Lanius Dec 2016 #203

if we're going to change the EC formula... eniwetok Dec 2016 #208

If, IF, we ever get rid of the electoral college Calista241 Dec 2016 #212

The people, not the states or the cities, will matter if the election is by popular vote. MovingForward2020 Dec 2016 #227

Please Stop Thinking In Terms of "States" eniwetok Dec 2016 #235

Does that require a Constitutional Convention? Adsos Letter Dec 2016 #220

there's middle ground eniwetok Dec 2016 #230

Absolutely!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #222

Sure, Russia would love us to be the Confederate States of America tandem5 Dec 2016 #226

try reading the thread before making such statements. eniwetok Dec 2016 #231

I'm sorry... tandem5 Dec 2016 #259

Highly unlikey to happen.. AllenJordan Dec 2016 #228

If you bothered to read the Constitution... eniwetok Dec 2016 #233

Would be interesting to see it. AllenJordan Dec 2016 #270

So, having read through pipi_k Dec 2016 #238

translation... eniwetok Dec 2016 #251

You just don't get it. pipi_k Dec 2016 #260

and your ideas are? eniwetok Dec 2016 #330

I've already told you pipi_k Dec 2016 #363

Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. deaniac21 Dec 2016 #241

BE QUIET! sarisataka Dec 2016 #242

Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power deaniac21 Dec 2016 #255

If California left the US, there would never be another Dem president. Not without frankieallen Dec 2016 #243

RED HERRING ALERT!! eniwetok Dec 2016 #248

reform? the basic structure of our government? We are not a democracy, we are a representative frankieallen Dec 2016 #262

when someone objects regardless of the choices eniwetok Dec 2016 #271

I'm not going to waste my time, there is so many twisted and false points in your post, I would not frankieallen Dec 2016 #368

Fine... start some new threads and deal with one point at a time. Deal? eniwetok Dec 2016 #375

ah yes... 2004 eniwetok Dec 2016 #272

well, if ALL the blue states left, they wouldn't have much of a country to be president of. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #343

Meaningless threats are useless. nt hack89 Dec 2016 #250

Absolutely not. Richard D Dec 2016 #253

Only if we get to keep Jerry Brown... forever ailsagirl Dec 2016 #256

Jerry Brown is 78 years old... yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #261

I know, I know ailsagirl Dec 2016 #269

This has to be some kind of performance piece. X_Digger Dec 2016 #295

I take the matter of morally legitimate government seriously. eniwetok Dec 2016 #312

Not so seriously pipi_k Dec 2016 #320

Gee... can it be... eniwetok Dec 2016 #325

A spark to ignite it? pipi_k Dec 2016 #364

Since you're so serious, have you contacted Gov. Brown yet? Marengo Dec 2016 #336

CONFLATION ALERT!! eniwetok Dec 2016 #346

No...not even close pipi_k Dec 2016 #361

so your bottom line is... eniwetok Dec 2016 #370

Oh, so ironic... pipi_k Dec 2016 #371

so you think you can discredit an idea by attacking the person who suggests it... eniwetok Dec 2016 #374

Has Gov. Brown responded to your secession proposal yet? Marengo Dec 2016 #372

Oh look, a logical fallacy. X_Digger Dec 2016 #349

You had a chance to enter into a substantive discussion eniwetok Dec 2016 #355

Dear, you haven't seem me pick a fight. I went easy on you, because it seemed to be unfair not to. X_Digger Dec 2016 #360

no DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #303

Red Herring Alert! eniwetok Dec 2016 #313

You keep saying that.."Red Herring Alert!"....it's you doing red herrings Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #344

try reading for comprehension eniwetok Dec 2016 #347

Doing it again...I never compared it to the Civil war... Uggwearingdad Dec 2016 #350

Not recommended Truth321 Dec 2016 #305

leaving aside your civil war red herring... eniwetok Dec 2016 #326

Crisis? Wabbajack_ Dec 2016 #327

There is a solution. -- From the states. immoderate Dec 2016 #333

I addressed that in my OP eniwetok Dec 2016 #348

Since it works without congress, I don't think you addressed it. immoderate Dec 2016 #352

Art 1, Sec 10 eniwetok Dec 2016 #354

It's not going to happen, so why do you keep this subject going? Calista241 Dec 2016 #334

if your read my OP... eniwetok Dec 2016 #351

Have you presented this idea to Gov. Brown yet? If so, what was his response. If not, why not? Marengo Dec 2016 #365

California is pretty divided as well. Throd 2.0 Dec 2016 #337

No blue cat Dec 2016 #353

how much does your vote count for in TX eniwetok Dec 2016 #356

Why not? Astraea Dec 2016 #362

California has one of the world's largest economies. McCamy Taylor Dec 2016 #367

Should the United States yield to such a threat, sl8 Dec 2016 #376

Red states would let CA secede in order to solidify power over the remaining states. LonePirate Dec 2016 #377

The ruse is up! Madam45for2923 Apr 2017 #378

Fearless leader of Calexit absconded to Russia. Any comments? Hekate Apr 2017 #379

Sure... I proposed this idea here 13 years ago.... eniwetok Apr 2017 #380