General Discussion

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)

52. but this becomes a catch 22

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 10:38 AM

Dec 2016

Under FL state law Trayvon had the right to defend himself, and use force first if he had a reasonable reason to believe Z meant him harm or he feared for his life. And he certainly did have more than a reasonable reason which Z did nothing to defuse. Z knew about SYG and he had to know he was escalating the situation. Martin didn't sucker punch him out of the blue.

When Z reached for his "phone" instead of identifying himself, Martin... who was not engaged in any crime, and had a right to be where he was... then had the right under FL law to use deadly force. But since Martin is dead... this benefit of the doubt is granted to Z who was the party to blame.

This is the sort of insanity that can result from poorly written, NRA inspired, SYG laws.

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Under "Stand Your Ground" Trayvon Had The Right To Kill Zimmerman [View all] eniwetok Dec 2016 OP

I always thought that stupid law would have been on Trayvon's side if there was any justice world wide wally Dec 2016 #1

With no eye witnesses hack89 Dec 2016 #6

last man standing 'wins' spanone Dec 2016 #11

Trials are skewed towards the accused for obvious reasons hack89 Dec 2016 #13

Was it a "very weak" case or or a case of bad written law? eniwetok Dec 2016 #56

When the government witnesses undermine the government's case hack89 Dec 2016 #59

sure there was evidence... Z's OWN STATEMENTS eniwetok Dec 2016 #62

You just described a weak and poorly prosecuted case hack89 Dec 2016 #66

this is a side show.... eniwetok Dec 2016 #67

I don't believe that TlalocW Dec 2016 #23

Even if one believes Zimmerman, he still grabbed his gun, stalked and intimidated Martin, then shot Hoyt Dec 2016 #2

conversely eniwetok Dec 2016 #4

I don't think the concept of stand your ground should have applied to Zman. One shouldn't be able Hoyt Dec 2016 #7

SYG is a legal defense for gun owners... so once Z was charged... eniwetok Dec 2016 #14

SYG is too generous in a situation where a bully can grab his gun and intimidate an unarmed kid, Hoyt Dec 2016 #20

That is mercuryblues Dec 2016 #78

SYG is basically license to kill Bettie Dec 2016 #22

Z's defense didn't use SYG NobodyHere Dec 2016 #35

it didn't matter... it was still the law eniwetok Dec 2016 #48

Except he did not evoke a SYG defense hack89 Dec 2016 #43

the instructions given to the jury were consistant with SYG eniwetok Dec 2016 #49

His entire defense was that it was impossible for him to retreat hack89 Dec 2016 #51

but this becomes a catch 22 eniwetok Dec 2016 #52

Z got the benefit of the doubt because that is how justice works hack89 Dec 2016 #55

no one's ever been convicted in the death of another where there are no witnesses? eniwetok Dec 2016 #61

No. But usually the prosecutor doesn't help the accused. Nt hack89 Dec 2016 #64

you're moving the goal post... eniwetok Dec 2016 #58

There was no SYG hearing, was there? hack89 Dec 2016 #60

IT DOESN'T MATTER if SYG is part of the law... eniwetok Dec 2016 #68

So why didn't he ask for a hearing? hack89 Dec 2016 #72

ask his lawyer eniwetok Dec 2016 #76

IF Martin was on top of Zimmerman how could Zimmerman retreat? ... spin Dec 2016 #79

Who had the testosterone poisoning? eniwetok Dec 2016 #85

I think if Martin would have lived ... spin Dec 2016 #88

Zimmerman actually didn't use the SYG defense. Captain Stern Dec 2016 #54

Wrong Drumron Dec 2016 #25

You should have posted your opinion of gunners like Zman. Sorry, but the majority of gun owners, Hoyt Dec 2016 #28

Look at all those black thugs in that gun show. I can't find one. nt doc03 Dec 2016 #41

And in that last pic ... lpbk2713 Dec 2016 #42

Myself a white guy 68 years old was at a gun shop in Columbus last week. I was looking at doc03 Dec 2016 #45

You don't use apostrophes with plurals. Aristus Dec 2016 #50

Hell, if Zimmerman had stayed in his truck like the emergency operator said mythology Dec 2016 #46

I thought the evidence showed that Trayvon was not aware of the gun hack89 Dec 2016 #5

Now, how would we know that? Do you honestly think Zman -- an armed wuss -- followed Martin in dark Hoyt Dec 2016 #8

He said it was in his pocket the entire time hack89 Dec 2016 #10

I'm still trying to figure out Runningdawg Dec 2016 #26

Not sure that was what was said in court hack89 Dec 2016 #27

Z claims gun was in holster under jacket eniwetok Dec 2016 #47

He had it in a holster and he said Martin reached for his gun. Must have known, don't you think? Hoyt Dec 2016 #30

They were wrestling hack89 Dec 2016 #31

I thought he was bashing his head in at the time. Of course, he only had superficial scratches. Hoyt Dec 2016 #32

I am relying on the government eye witness hack89 Dec 2016 #33

answer the question eniwetok Dec 2016 #53

Of course he could lie hack89 Dec 2016 #57

the "witness" did not see how it started eniwetok Dec 2016 #69

It was not perverse hack89 Dec 2016 #73

but your bottom line is SYG is not to blame eniwetok Dec 2016 #77

No agenda hack89 Dec 2016 #81

and yet eniwetok Dec 2016 #86

I think you are wrong about SYG and it's role in the trial hack89 Dec 2016 #87

Trayvon WAS aware that some guy was following him csziggy Dec 2016 #15

Yet we know Trayvon lost Z hack89 Dec 2016 #17

Zimmerman told the dispatcher he had driven to the back gate csziggy Dec 2016 #19

The car was parked in the opposite direction from his house hack89 Dec 2016 #21

The transcript of Zimmerman's call says he WAS driving to the back gate csziggy Dec 2016 #36

That conversation took place at 2 on the map hack89 Dec 2016 #38

The timing does not work csziggy Dec 2016 #44

We only have Z's word eniwetok Dec 2016 #16

We have the government's witness hack89 Dec 2016 #18

Zimmerman was a typical gun nut. They dream about the day they can finally shoot someone. Oneironaut Dec 2016 #65

There are more than a few on DU who still defend the Zman as a law abiding citizen and flamin lib Dec 2016 #3

Yep. Worse, they count Zman's murdering TM as a justified use of a gun for defense. Deplorable. Hoyt Dec 2016 #9

At least "Florida Man" Michael Dunn was finally convicted (during a retrial) for murdering tblue37 Dec 2016 #12

Yes. This has always been the case, and the reason why this is usch a travesty. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #24

You're not going far enough. Trayvon had that right even without SYG. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #29

pointing a gun eniwetok Dec 2016 #71

There are two separate issues here. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Dec 2016 #34

Zimmy was bird dogging Trayvon. lpbk2713 Dec 2016 #37

Unfortunately, only Zimmerman had murder on his mind Greybnk48 Dec 2016 #39

If Travon was white they would have burned anyone with a hispanic name or any doc03 Dec 2016 #40

Here's why SYG is a bad law - It doesn't care about what happened before the shooting. Oneironaut Dec 2016 #63

self defense.... eniwetok Dec 2016 #70

I agree and thank you. Martin responsibly feared for his life. Oneironaut Dec 2016 #75

a young black male has no ground to stand on. bullimiami Dec 2016 #80

Florida statitics disagree with you. ManiacJoe Dec 2016 #83

Silly wabbit, Stand Your Ground is for white people! backscatter712 Dec 2016 #82

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #84