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eniwetok

(1,629 posts)

13. ROTF: Look at the chart below: Since the recession ended in 2009

Sat Jan 7, 2017, 10:24 PM

Jan 2017

Really? We're to believe that when the "recession ended" life was back to normal? When did the recession "end"? Was it the summer of 2009? When did the job loss end? Was it Q4 2009?

Sorry... the recession ended when the economic collapse ended. It's a deceptive yardstick since it took 3-4 years to get GDP back up to pre-recession levels in constant dollars.

------------current $ constant 2009 $
2007q4 14,685.3 14,991.8
2008q1 14,668.4 14,889.5
2008q2 14,813.0 14,963.4
2008q3 14,843.0 14,891.6
2008q4 14,549.9 14,577.0
2009q1 14,383.9 14,375.0
2009q2 14,340.4 14,355.6
2009q3 14,384.1 14,402.5
2009q4 14,566.5 14,541.9
2010q1 14,681.1 14,604.8
2010q2 14,888.6 14,745.9
2010q3 15,057.7 14,845.5
2010q4 15,230.2 14,939.0
2011q1 15,238.4 14,881.3
2011q2 15,460.9 14,989.6

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It's not a question of blaming trade deals OR blaming automation. [View all] Ken Burch Jan 2017 OP

Personally, I think it is 95+% automation. I also think our future, be it with guaranteed income or Hoyt Jan 2017 #1

Where I live it's 95% free trade hollowdweller Jan 2017 #2

There is no evidence that free trade is responsible for anywhere near that many jobs mythology Jan 2017 #7

That is the Free Traders bullshit excuse. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #10

At the same time those jobs were supposedly shipped overseas, Honda, Toyota, Siemens, BMW, etc., Hoyt Jan 2017 #14

I don't know how many times I can see another job lost Jim Beard Jan 2017 #33

Those jobs didn't go overseas. Loss of radio stations probably has more to do with Internet and Hoyt Jan 2017 #37

This is true but because of the internet Jim Beard Jan 2017 #45

I want to add the simple invention of voice caller systems.... Jim Beard Jan 2017 #85

You said hollowdweller Jan 2017 #72

Toyota starts people at 14 an hour here I believe. hollowdweller Jan 2017 #73

Monsanto sent my friends Dad hollowdweller Jan 2017 #70

ROTF: Look at the chart below: Since the recession ended in 2009 eniwetok Jan 2017 #13

I'm with you on the guaranteed income thing. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #3

How would a foreign corporation force reduction in social spending? Hoyt Jan 2017 #5

By challenging it as a subsidy to domestic corporations Ken Burch Jan 2017 #8

Yet Canada and Trudeau are supporting TPP. I'd like to see a link to the case you cite. Hoyt Jan 2017 #11

I'm aware of a number of BainsBane Jan 2017 #29

Those provisions have been in trade agreements since at least 1959. Both Canada and Mexico are eager Hoyt Jan 2017 #34

I wasn't aware of that BainsBane Jan 2017 #43

so why don't corps just automate in the US? why do they move their factories overseas? nt TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #61

Razor, a lot of them do just automate here, eliminating millions of jobs. What do you have against Hoyt Jan 2017 #68

wages hollowdweller Jan 2017 #71

yeah, guaranteed income is totally going to happen. NOT. but thanks for helping get rid of our jobs. TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #62

Assuming you are young, I'd suggest training for jobs that are resistant to technology, outsourcing, Hoyt Jan 2017 #69

That's the line we just used in the election. hollowdweller Jan 2017 #74

What's your solution. You could have said, "All TVs will be made in America, and you can pay 3 times Hoyt Jan 2017 #77

There are benefits to automation that are hard to deny Kilgore Jan 2017 #4

Depends hollowdweller Jan 2017 #75

Automation includes technology. How many clerical and other jobs have computers eliminated? Hoyt Jan 2017 #6

it does matter if you are talking about certain jobs coming back JI7 Jan 2017 #9

People don't want "certain jobs". OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #22

but they do want "certain" jobs as seen with coal country JI7 Jan 2017 #24

Again, no. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #41

who has made the promise before ? the only thing they have voted for was coal JI7 Jan 2017 #42

Again, no. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #46

once again, it shows nothing about who they voted for that let them down JI7 Jan 2017 #47

Wow. Serious misunderstandings. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #48

who made promises and broke them ? they have voted for coal everytime , coal has destroyed them and JI7 Jan 2017 #49

To repeat: OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #51

yeah, i'm the elitist and a wealthy east coat nyc white man like donald trump is the common man for JI7 Jan 2017 #52

No one is arguing for Trump. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #53

LOL , they VOTED FOR trump . IT'S WHAT THEY WANT JI7 Jan 2017 #54

You've met every coal miner in the country and all of them voted for Trump? OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #55

i'm not disregarding them. i'm acknowledging them and their reason for voting the way they did JI7 Jan 2017 #56

In what post did you acknowledge anything about them except your OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #59

it is a fact most of them voted for Trump JI7 Jan 2017 #60

No, I am saying OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #66

He's not. He's a rich yankee. hollowdweller Jan 2017 #79

Wrong hollowdweller Jan 2017 #78

Exactly hollowdweller Jan 2017 #76

Too many people that count themselves "environmentalists" OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #84

The problem is these anti trade anti automation arguments barely scratch the surface... JHan Jan 2017 #12

Don't jump to conclusions. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #19

It's far from perfect however: JHan Jan 2017 #28

Wow. Serious misunderstandings. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #35

Well I never "attacked" Trumka... JHan Jan 2017 #64

No I guess you didn't read them. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #65

Interesting post BainsBane Jan 2017 #23

Yep, no chance of that culture changing with Trump. JHan Jan 2017 #30

That's because Germany actually cares about how its citizens fare, since the Nay Jan 2017 #83

Yeah but what if we used the tarriffs to create a big gov't jobs program? hollowdweller Jan 2017 #81

Progressives embraced globalization as part of the UN Millennial Development Goals (MDG). TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #15

Exactly. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #17

You might remember DU OPs and posts last year, supporting sending jobs to countries to lift wages. TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #20

And this is all reflective of the decline of American empire BainsBane Jan 2017 #21

Actually no. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #36

The hilarious part were all the columns and posts last year OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #25

The TPP would have given China keys to the kingdom. They would be able to undercut TPP partners. TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Jan 2017 #27

Yep. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #40

gapminder disagrees joshcryer Jan 2017 #58

Doesn't surprise me, as they promote globalization and poverty reduction measures. TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #63

It is for defenders of corporate trade. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #16

Automation predates trade deals BainsBane Jan 2017 #18

It's too bad you don't know that corporations did dominate trade when NAFTA was passed. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #31

Obviously corporations did BainsBane Jan 2017 #32

You continue to misunderstand. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #39

I am not demeaning anyone BainsBane Jan 2017 #44

I'm not insulted. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #50

I lost two jobs at companies that moved to Mexico for cheaper labor. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #38

If it was trade deals then the jobs could come back. joshcryer Jan 2017 #57

You ignore globalization itself -- jobs were moving to cheaper places, in the US and overseas before karynnj Jan 2017 #67

My father rarely worked for corporations back in the 50's. The companies... Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #82

Very well said. Nt karynnj Jan 2017 #87

Not my intent to ignore it-I see NAFTA and TPP as manifestations of globalization. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #86

Bookmarking to read later. There are some excellent arguments on both sides here. LongTomH Jan 2017 #80