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OrwellwasRight

(5,317 posts)
65. No I guess you didn't read them.
Sun Jan 8, 2017, 11:38 AM
Jan 2017

My links did not "explain the reasons and justifications" for quantitative easing. You clearly didn't read them. At all. I'll give this post the minimal effort you deserve.

1) I posted one link related to currency manipulation, and it explained that quantitative easing, by no stretch of the imagination, could ever be considered currency manipulation. Why? Because the US's actions do not meet the seven part IMF test to determine if currency manipulation has occurred. That is what you would have found had you read the link.

2) I didn't say TPP "violates" our democracy. It undermines it, which means it weakens it, basically blows it out of the water. But no, I never said that voting for it was not allowable under our constitution, which is what violates means. So try to read more carefully. Your quotation, from the CATO institute, by the way, rather than any progressive source, is hilarious in that it too is off point, doesn't even include the terms ISDS, financial services, or food safety, so it doesn't even address my criticisms of the TPP. Let me break it down for you in small words so you can understand before running to another right wing web site for more data in support of the TPP.

ISDS stands for investor-to-state dispute settlement. ISDS is a process that allows foreign investors (and only foreign investors) to enforce their rights under trade agreements themselves, in private arbitration tribunals. Cases are not heard by judges, who would be expert in public international law and skilled at balancing the interests of the many versus the one. They are heard by commercial arbitrators, most of alternate between hearing cases and bringing cases. International arbitration is lucrative, sometimes earning the arbitrators $1000 and hour OR MORE, so the motivation for repeat-player bias that exists in domestic arbitration exists there as well.

What rights can foreign investors vindicate in these courts? Yes, your traditional right to no expropriation without compensation, but also the right against discrimination (which can be proved by even a single legislator making a comment that a particular law would be good for domestic jobs), and the right to compensations for regulatory takings, which is just a fancy word for being compensated for laws and regulations that investors don't like. The Federalist Society, which I am sure you are familiar with given your affinity for Cato, tried to make regulatory takings the law of the land in the US in the 80s and 90s. They could not do so. So ISDS is a back door to get at the international level what they could not at the domestic level.

ISDS allows compensation for acts at every level (local, state, and federal) that a panel determines violates one of the investors rights and diminishes profits of the claimant. Corporations have won cases on the basis of: receiving a logging quote they didn't; not being allowed to expand a quarry toward an environmentally sensitive area; not being given a building permit to build a toxic waste storage facility near a drinking water supply; for terminating an oil drilling contract pursuant to the exact terms of the contract; and on and on.

How does it undermine democracy? 1) It forces societies to compensate private parties for the right to govern. Even when a country passes laws and regulations in a democratic manner, it may be forced to fork over thousands or millions or even billions to a private party. That is a direct loss to democracy. 2) This potential for big pay-offs creates a chilling effect in which lawmakers and regulators are less likely to take an action once a case has been threatened.

Here are some links about the dangers of ISDS, including from your beloved Cato:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrishamby/the-billion-dollar-ultimatum?utm_term=.pn6zjkr7X3#.sseRX7JPmz
https://www.thenation.com/article/right-and-us-trade-law-invalidating-20th-century/
https://www.cato.org/publications/free-trade-bulletin/compromise-advance-trade-agenda-purge-negotiations-investor-state

If you think high tech jobs are the answer, you have not been paying attention to the a) offshoring of high tech jobs and b) use of H-1B visas to drive down wages in the high tech sector and take what used to be good jobs for people with graduate degrees to shit jobs. Just saying "hi tech" is no longer a magic word. Silicon Valley is the very entity driving down wages and inventing apps to undermine safety regulations, unions, and every tool government uses to make like livable.

Here is some more evidence for you:

Debunking the bullshit that the it is automation not trade that kills jobs:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/10/18/dont-blame-the-robots-an-interview-on-manufacturing-automation-and-globalization-with-susan-houseman/
http://www.nber.org/papers/w21906.pdf
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/the-bogus-high-tech-worker-shortage-how-guest-workers-lower-us-wages/
http://research.upjohn.org/up_workingpapers/130/

As to not lowering standards, just try reading the financial services chapter. There are several provisions about kinds of financial services rules we cannot have. Preventing us from making certain kinds of rules to try and stabilize the financial system is lowering our standards. Please try to understand what it is that trade agreements and are supposed to do before you defend them blindly. They are not about tariffs, which is what Cato likes to focus on They are about tying the hands of democratic societies to free corporations to behave however they want. Corporations do not like democracies. They do not like to have to meet standards. They do not like to be prohibited from anything. That is what trade agreements do: put straightjackets on societies to limit the ways they can control businesses. To change this, we must throw out the old trade model and write new rules that put people and the planet first. Here is one way to do that: http://www.aflcio.org/About/Exec-Council/Conventions/2013/Resolutions-and-Amendments/Resolution-12-America-and-the-World-Need-a-New-Approach-to-Trade-and-Globalization

Universal Basic Income is not only a ridiculously bad substitute for good trade policy, doesn't even make sense. Who is voting for this universal basic income, the Republican Congress? And how much do you want to hand out to people instead of letting them earn a decent living, because as of last January, the amount was $11,880 for a single person. I could not even pay my rent with what, much less have food, electricity, a phone, a bus pass, or new gloves for the winter. What a joke.


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Personally, I think it is 95+% automation. I also think our future, be it with guaranteed income or Hoyt Jan 2017 #1
Where I live it's 95% free trade hollowdweller Jan 2017 #2
There is no evidence that free trade is responsible for anywhere near that many jobs mythology Jan 2017 #7
That is the Free Traders bullshit excuse. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #10
At the same time those jobs were supposedly shipped overseas, Honda, Toyota, Siemens, BMW, etc., Hoyt Jan 2017 #14
I don't know how many times I can see another job lost Jim Beard Jan 2017 #33
Those jobs didn't go overseas. Loss of radio stations probably has more to do with Internet and Hoyt Jan 2017 #37
This is true but because of the internet Jim Beard Jan 2017 #45
I want to add the simple invention of voice caller systems.... Jim Beard Jan 2017 #85
You said hollowdweller Jan 2017 #72
Toyota starts people at 14 an hour here I believe. hollowdweller Jan 2017 #73
Monsanto sent my friends Dad hollowdweller Jan 2017 #70
ROTF: Look at the chart below: Since the recession ended in 2009 eniwetok Jan 2017 #13
I'm with you on the guaranteed income thing. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #3
How would a foreign corporation force reduction in social spending? Hoyt Jan 2017 #5
By challenging it as a subsidy to domestic corporations Ken Burch Jan 2017 #8
Yet Canada and Trudeau are supporting TPP. I'd like to see a link to the case you cite. Hoyt Jan 2017 #11
I'm aware of a number of BainsBane Jan 2017 #29
Those provisions have been in trade agreements since at least 1959. Both Canada and Mexico are eager Hoyt Jan 2017 #34
I wasn't aware of that BainsBane Jan 2017 #43
so why don't corps just automate in the US? why do they move their factories overseas? nt TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #61
Razor, a lot of them do just automate here, eliminating millions of jobs. What do you have against Hoyt Jan 2017 #68
wages hollowdweller Jan 2017 #71
yeah, guaranteed income is totally going to happen. NOT. but thanks for helping get rid of our jobs. TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #62
Assuming you are young, I'd suggest training for jobs that are resistant to technology, outsourcing, Hoyt Jan 2017 #69
That's the line we just used in the election. hollowdweller Jan 2017 #74
What's your solution. You could have said, "All TVs will be made in America, and you can pay 3 times Hoyt Jan 2017 #77
There are benefits to automation that are hard to deny Kilgore Jan 2017 #4
Depends hollowdweller Jan 2017 #75
Automation includes technology. How many clerical and other jobs have computers eliminated? Hoyt Jan 2017 #6
it does matter if you are talking about certain jobs coming back JI7 Jan 2017 #9
People don't want "certain jobs". OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #22
but they do want "certain" jobs as seen with coal country JI7 Jan 2017 #24
Again, no. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #41
who has made the promise before ? the only thing they have voted for was coal JI7 Jan 2017 #42
Again, no. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #46
once again, it shows nothing about who they voted for that let them down JI7 Jan 2017 #47
Wow. Serious misunderstandings. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #48
who made promises and broke them ? they have voted for coal everytime , coal has destroyed them and JI7 Jan 2017 #49
To repeat: OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #51
yeah, i'm the elitist and a wealthy east coat nyc white man like donald trump is the common man for JI7 Jan 2017 #52
No one is arguing for Trump. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #53
LOL , they VOTED FOR trump . IT'S WHAT THEY WANT JI7 Jan 2017 #54
You've met every coal miner in the country and all of them voted for Trump? OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #55
i'm not disregarding them. i'm acknowledging them and their reason for voting the way they did JI7 Jan 2017 #56
In what post did you acknowledge anything about them except your OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #59
it is a fact most of them voted for Trump JI7 Jan 2017 #60
No, I am saying OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #66
He's not. He's a rich yankee. hollowdweller Jan 2017 #79
Wrong hollowdweller Jan 2017 #78
Exactly hollowdweller Jan 2017 #76
Too many people that count themselves "environmentalists" OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #84
The problem is these anti trade anti automation arguments barely scratch the surface... JHan Jan 2017 #12
Don't jump to conclusions. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #19
It's far from perfect however: JHan Jan 2017 #28
Wow. Serious misunderstandings. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #35
Well I never "attacked" Trumka... JHan Jan 2017 #64
No I guess you didn't read them. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #65
Interesting post BainsBane Jan 2017 #23
Yep, no chance of that culture changing with Trump. JHan Jan 2017 #30
That's because Germany actually cares about how its citizens fare, since the Nay Jan 2017 #83
Yeah but what if we used the tarriffs to create a big gov't jobs program? hollowdweller Jan 2017 #81
Progressives embraced globalization as part of the UN Millennial Development Goals (MDG). TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #15
Exactly. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #17
You might remember DU OPs and posts last year, supporting sending jobs to countries to lift wages. TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #20
And this is all reflective of the decline of American empire BainsBane Jan 2017 #21
Actually no. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #36
The hilarious part were all the columns and posts last year OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #25
The TPP would have given China keys to the kingdom. They would be able to undercut TPP partners. TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Jan 2017 #27
Yep. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #40
gapminder disagrees joshcryer Jan 2017 #58
Doesn't surprise me, as they promote globalization and poverty reduction measures. TheBlackAdder Jan 2017 #63
It is for defenders of corporate trade. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #16
Automation predates trade deals BainsBane Jan 2017 #18
It's too bad you don't know that corporations did dominate trade when NAFTA was passed. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #31
Obviously corporations did BainsBane Jan 2017 #32
You continue to misunderstand. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #39
I am not demeaning anyone BainsBane Jan 2017 #44
I'm not insulted. OrwellwasRight Jan 2017 #50
I lost two jobs at companies that moved to Mexico for cheaper labor. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #38
If it was trade deals then the jobs could come back. joshcryer Jan 2017 #57
You ignore globalization itself -- jobs were moving to cheaper places, in the US and overseas before karynnj Jan 2017 #67
My father rarely worked for corporations back in the 50's. The companies... Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #82
Very well said. Nt karynnj Jan 2017 #87
Not my intent to ignore it-I see NAFTA and TPP as manifestations of globalization. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #86
Bookmarking to read later. There are some excellent arguments on both sides here. LongTomH Jan 2017 #80
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