General Discussion

DanTex

(20,709 posts)

79. Whether it's worked with heroin is a good question.

Mon Jan 23, 2017, 06:21 PM

Jan 2017

Overall, I think that the situation with heroin would be worse if it were legal. There would be more people using it, more people addicted, more lives destroyed, more drain on economic productivity, etc.

Having said that, I disagree with putting users in prison. I think dealers should be in prison, not users. I think the tough laws regarding possession of small quantities that have been passed are counterproductive, they end up punishing addicts who need treatment and not prison.

Thing is, my whole perspective on hard drugs is practical. I place very little value on the loss of personal freedom that comes from not being allowed to shoot heroin. It basically doesn't enter the equation. The questions are how do we reduce the number of lives being ruined unnecessarily, either through addiction or through imprisonment.

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Weed legalized in Cali and age to buy Tobacco is raised to 21. Seems weird to celebrate both. [View all] CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 OP

Who me ? Single drop Jan 2017 #1

Look up the stages of how the human brain develops. procon Jan 2017 #2

Then why stop at tobacco? CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 #9

The original intent of "age of majority" laws was to protect youngsters until they matured Hekate Jan 2017 #36

Where I grew up... ret5hd Jan 2017 #3

59? Lochloosa Jan 2017 #6

Yep. ret5hd Jan 2017 #16

May I ask where that is? CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 #10

Only the oddest place in the lower 48: OK ret5hd Jan 2017 #13

Tobacco is very addictive...physically addictive. Weed is not. TrekLuver Jan 2017 #4

Two things: One, weed isn't legal under 21 either, and two, tobacco is way fucking worse for you. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #5

Bingo bravenak Jan 2017 #15

doesn't matter. when you're 18 you have the *responsibilities* of being an adult; you should have TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #45

it's an arguable point Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #50

Both weed and tobacco increase your chances of getting lung cancer. milestogo Jan 2017 #7

I'm not familiar with tobacco edibles- other than chewing tobacco loyalsister Jan 2017 #34

nicotine gum? Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #39

Have people started chewing it for health reasons loyalsister Jan 2017 #43

smoking tobacco is not a right edhopper Jan 2017 #8

If we're going to ban it, ban it from all or from none. CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 #11

things like tobacco and alcohol edhopper Jan 2017 #17

age restrictions, yes Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #20

Well, we make a distinction between adults and minors on all sorts of things. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #22

Oh, bullshit. Hey, my dad even died from lung cancer, but you know what? Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #19

Second hand smoke impacts others around the smoker mythology Jan 2017 #29

No, the minute your choices endanger others then it becomes their business. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #30

WHEN 2nd hand smoke is a problem, it should be prohibited, otherwise not. OK? nt TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #47

I don't often agree with you Texasgal Jan 2017 #31

I can be a right **** sometimes Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #32

OMG. does a person own and control their own body??!! a lot of "progressives" are unfortunately TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #46

If you notice edhopper Jan 2017 #53

The reasoning "it's my body, hands off" works sometimes. Igel Jan 2017 #12

Very well said CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 #14

I agree 100%, except about vaccination. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #23

Tobacco will kill you and the people around you. LeftyMom Jan 2017 #18

Anti-weed musicians: Ted Nugent, Gene Simmons, and New Kids on the Block Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #21

Who noodle dances to jam bands again? LeftyMom Jan 2017 #24

Oh my god, if you can't appreciate that Other One Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #25

Imma just leave this here.... opiate69 Jan 2017 #27

Weed just makes you have bad taste in music makes no freakin sense...it's not even TrekLuver Jan 2017 #40

I am 49 and still think that 18 year olds should Doreen Jan 2017 #26

Especially the "tried as an adult" thing CaliforniaLove Jan 2017 #28

exactly; shouldn't even be an issue. sadly, most people will take away the rights of others in just TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #48

IKR? People who "think" and have "opinions" that are "different" kcr Jan 2017 #54

thank heavens someone Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #61

Given that somehow I actually agree with some of your posts in this thread, that is too funny, WD kcr Jan 2017 #83

apparently, you can't be against the drug war unless you're also against social security. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #60

Was this a dig at me? Because I don't agree with that other poster. kcr Jan 2017 #86

No. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #87

Unless you think heroin and meth should be legal, then the government is going to be DanTex Jan 2017 #33

no one has tried "the purist libertarian thing". What we HAVE tried is the authoritarian one. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #35

No, but people have advocated it. DanTex Jan 2017 #37

"tightening smoking laws" isn't the same thing as outlawing nicotine. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #38

The OP isn't talking about outlawing nicotine. Nobody is. DanTex Jan 2017 #41

Actually, the reason for that is that very few people live in their own amusement park Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #42

No, the reason is that they're illegal. DanTex Jan 2017 #51

know what? I'm not going to apologize for believing that people should have the RIGHT to Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #55

So you're totally ignoring the arguments I'm making. DanTex Jan 2017 #57

you're not making arguments. You'e conflating unrelated shit. Here, I'll play: Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #59

Yes, I am. I'm challenging your libertarian orthodoxy. DanTex Jan 2017 #65

I don't have a fucking "orthodoxy". Unlike some people, I am exactly what I appear to be, here. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #66

Actually, yes, you do. It's just that you apply the principles inconsistently. DanTex Jan 2017 #69

Thank you for presuming that you're inside my head. But you're not. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #71

I'm not presuming anything, that's why I'm asking. I'm going by what you have said. DanTex Jan 2017 #73

so how come we never see Batman and Bruce Wayne at the same time? Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #76

You know, it's almost sad kcr Jan 2017 #85

I've pretty much said everything I need to say on the matter, in the thread. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #88

i think heroin and meth *should* be legal. who are you to tell anyone what they can or can not TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #49

Do you also apply the same principle outside of drugs? DanTex Jan 2017 #52

Do you think that paying taxes is the functional equivalent of having a leg forcibly amputated? Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #62

Huh? Of course not. Neither is not being allowed to shoot heroin. Not sure what your point is. DanTex Jan 2017 #63

Do you think women should have the right to use birth control or get abortions? Why or why not? Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #64

Of course. The cost-benefit analysis is easy because there are no costs whatsoever. DanTex Jan 2017 #67

so personal freedom is totally irrelevant. Gotcha. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #68

Of course it's relevant. It's a benefit. DanTex Jan 2017 #70

right, but personal freedom is bad, because milton friedman. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #72

Of course personal freedom is good. What are you talking about? DanTex Jan 2017 #74

no, your orthodoxy is that people aren't allowed to make their own decisions. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #75

What? No. My orthodoxy is that people should be allowed to make their own decisions, DanTex Jan 2017 #77

you disagree with my statement up there that "prohibition doesn't work". Do you think it has worked Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #78

Whether it's worked with heroin is a good question. DanTex Jan 2017 #79

Again, it's not so much that I think "shooting heroin is great", I philosophically believe that the Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #80

OK. I disagree, I think that point of view is entirely arbitrary with respect to liberty. DanTex Jan 2017 #82

i never said that there should be a ban on banning drugs; you are conflating the two; TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #81

You did said heroin and meth should be legal, right? DanTex Jan 2017 #84

when you're 18 you can be drafted and thrown in jail with ax-murderers; you should be able to buy a TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #44

You really can't think of a reason why people would see both issues differently? kcr Jan 2017 #56

I've never met anyone who didn't impose arbitrary limits LanternWaste Jan 2017 #58