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lonestarnot

(77,097 posts)

76. And certainly don't lay down with one, it'll eat your face! There are plenty of differences,

Reply to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Jun 25, 2012, 07:51 PM

Jun 2012

trouble is the party of bullies don't see themselves as bullies.

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"We warned the president -- don't ever, ever agree with the Republicans," [View all] MadHound Jun 2012 OP

It was easier to scapegoat the uninsured.. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #1

Yeah, that poor pooor 38% of uninsured who are in the top 45%... joshcryer Jun 2012 #64

they never even talked about the real solution- remove the middle man insurance company Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #2

Wendell Potter is an all-American hero! He really is because he was the first to bring Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #24

wow, what a great guy! Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #40

and who will pay for it. Social Security and Medicare are paid for by us. It is mandatory, and in still_one Jun 2012 #155

Please stop repeating corporate media manufactured lies Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #161

B.S. I have used free ER to save my life plus more freebees! chknltl Jun 2012 #175

Very interesting use of words there newbie. chknltl Jun 2012 #180

Stop spreading corporate propaganda. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #199

Am I lieing about my medical history chknltl Jun 2012 #202

most people have jobs, where the money can and will be taken from paychecks, tax refunds etc. Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #208

Simple answer: A single change in Medicare. chknltl Jun 2012 #211

and isn't that what I said in the first place? still_one Jun 2012 #215

I defended a different part of what you said AND.... chknltl Jun 2012 #216

Right ProSense Jun 2012 #3

Nice to see you popping up again, MadHound Jun 2012 #5

Want ProSense Jun 2012 #6

Facts, LOL! MadHound Jun 2012 #7

Facts: ProSense Jun 2012 #8

oh jesus. is all this because he's a bitter and jaded smoove johnny supporter? dionysus Jun 2012 #97

Uhm... kenfrequed Jun 2012 #167

best to ingore people who want to put things in your face nt msongs Jun 2012 #11

arguing with a table leg again, MadHound? Skittles Jun 2012 #123

In theory, the individual mandate makes sense. I support a public option, at the very least. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #26

I understand the logic behind the individual mandate Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #133

False equivalency. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #170

Not when you consider the motive is money Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #174

This works in other developed countries because the government DICTATES-- eridani Jun 2012 #135

All other nations which mandate the purchase of health insurance make it illegal to profit from Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #148

Bingo unapatriciated Jun 2012 #217

I would accept being forced to pay for it if quinnox Jun 2012 #4

Does this ProSense Jun 2012 #9

Why are you fighting so hard for a Republican policy? MadHound Jun 2012 #10

Actually ProSense Jun 2012 #12

You are fighting for a Heritage Foundation mandate, MadHound Jun 2012 #13

No ProSense Jun 2012 #15

Yes, you are, MadHound Jun 2012 #17

No, ProSense Jun 2012 #19

unfortunately choie Jun 2012 #72

CORRECT Skittles Jun 2012 #203

I think a lot of liberals supported mandate, especially to get something of value enacted. Hoyt Jun 2012 #78

Face facts, you are going to have to pay for it one way or other Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #136

Let's be real. Of course, everyone decent in health care would provide services to the injured. Hoyt Jun 2012 #144

people fighting in the streets for power. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #173

I guess you've never read any right wing Tbag, gun or "militia" websites. Hoyt Jun 2012 #176

I know of those types Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #182

That's it exactly. Let's hope they fade away someday. Hoyt Jun 2012 #184

That type will never fade away Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #187

MLR has been tried in 15 states and failed abjectly in cost control eridani Jun 2012 #137

I doubt if most states have the ability to monitor and enforce it. Feds do. Plus -- Hoyt Jun 2012 #145

You sound like someone who expects to have access to the exchanges TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #168

I disagree. With no pre-existing exclusion, you can move Hoyt Jun 2012 #177

How do you freely move among plans unless you are allowed exchange access? TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #179

Employer health plans have to meet new federal standards. Small businesses can buy from exchanges. Hoyt Jun 2012 #196

Yes, but the final Senate version stripped this from the feds eridani Jun 2012 #204

Add this to the long list of other right-wing, corporate, and neocon policies woo me with science Jun 2012 #219

Were you unconscious in the 90s? jeff47 Jun 2012 #21

Big difference between the nineties and now MadHound Jun 2012 #27

When ProSense Jun 2012 #29

Oh, when that pendulum swings again, MadHound Jun 2012 #32

Ah ProSense Jun 2012 #36

Or have the individual mandate upheld, MadHound Jun 2012 #37

Utter ProSense Jun 2012 #38

Pro, explain in your own words why you support the only Mandate on Earth to purchase for profit Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #149

Also, in what ProSense Jun 2012 #39

The better idea is to hope it is upheld and work to change it davidpdx Jun 2012 #109

The mandate is forcing the middle class to SHOP. That's a good thing. nt patrice Jun 2012 #171

The mandate is going to create pressure from the Middle Class demanding Long-Term Care coverage. nt patrice Jun 2012 #172

It doesn't matter who wants it or not. The present system cannot sustain for any length TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #102

"The Wealthcare and Profit Protection Act is designed to prop up and perpetuate the insurance cartel woo me with science Jun 2012 #220

The people want a lot of things jeff47 Jun 2012 #34

Sooner or later you're going to have to sell it to red states anyway, MadHound Jun 2012 #35

We can sell it to the red states much more easily when we can point to successes in blue states. jeff47 Jun 2012 #43

How can your idea of "real change" pass the Congress TODAY? You don't live in REALITY. RBInMaine Jun 2012 #154

I agree, that is the true devastation that Obamacare will leave (regardless of the SC decision) stockholmer Jun 2012 #42

Stockholmer, Actually Roosevelt's progressive movement JDPriestly Jun 2012 #47

interesting points stockholmer Jun 2012 #48

Agreed. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #49

Interesting ProSense Jun 2012 #53

I am not singling out Democrats, just pointing out both sides dance to the oligarch's tune, albeit stockholmer Jun 2012 #58

Kolko is a great but forgotten voice. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #156

a REAL FDR-style jobs/protect Social Secuity-Medicare/rebuild USA/end the banks grip/fair tax Plan stockholmer Jun 2012 #50

Utopia revisited. Well, I'm no expert, and seems like the government JDPriestly Jun 2012 #83

You may be interested in ... Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2012 #186

Also want to add: Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2012 #195

thank you for the links, I will deffo read up stockholmer Jun 2012 #200

"fast track" is an absolutely HUGE assumption. & Have you ever heard of taking someone's game patrice Jun 2012 #166

I'm with you, ProSense, on this one. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #44

Well, first of all, most folks who don't have health insurance can't afford to have it. MadHound Jun 2012 #45

Yeah, it's too bad there wasn't any price-support mechanism in the ACA....oh wait, there was (nt) jeff47 Jun 2012 #46

I think I made it clear that I would prefer a single payer system JDPriestly Jun 2012 #51

The trouble is this interim step, MadHound Jun 2012 #52

The amount of time it takes depends upon the size & composition of the pools. As demand for higher patrice Jun 2012 #164

The big for profit "health" insurance corporations will eat up the small ones as that industry Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #189

The MLR is on the premium dollar, not on the costs of services. It will force prices down. patrice Jun 2012 #190

Most people I know without HC are without it because they cannot afford it. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #62

The plan is to subsidize health care for those who can't afford it. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #84

And do you really feel good about the fact that only some will get fair subsidies? Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #152

I would be interested in the article if you can dig it up. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #108

I wish I could remember where I saw it. If it helps, it stated that Obama was 'encouraged to sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #120

You are so damn right. FedUp_Queer Jun 2012 #117

ROFLMFAO... seriously... SomethingFishy Jun 2012 #212

FYI Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #20

Pro sincerely believes (for some reason) that all the R's are correct AS LONG AS the POTUS agrees Dragonfli Jun 2012 #70

Here is Newt Gingrich supporting the Dokkie Jun 2012 #87

non-profit government backed option- exactly! Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #25

I think adopting a Japanese-style system would be a start Art_from_Ark Jun 2012 #122

Well said. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #14

I agree with you on all points but in regards Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #16

Yeah, the Court is in a tough place, MadHound Jun 2012 #18

Obama is a temporary inconvenience, at most only four more years, on the other hand Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #22

That sounds right to me. n/t EFerrari Jun 2012 #54

Why ProSense Jun 2012 #23

Being Republican and white is always their first choice, furthermore Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #98

I agree with you, Uncle Joe. This Court cannot strike down anything that benefits the Corporations. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #124

Maybe it's a "bait and switch." Thav Jun 2012 #30

Nixon signed into law the creation of the EPA. Should we abolish this Republican program? Freddie Stubbs Jun 2012 #31

Is the EPA a corporate friendly program? MadHound Jun 2012 #33

Yesterday's repub. Today's repub totally different. Kingofalldems Jun 2012 #41

I guess you can't pay attention very well, the topic is health care. just1voice Jun 2012 #57

Nixon would be a Democrat today. More so than a lot of "Democrats" we have Autumn Jun 2012 #88

Rec'd, most Americans want single payer/universal health care, not for-profit hell just1voice Jun 2012 #55

Odd that the Heritage Foundation would support any such thing treestar Jun 2012 #56

this may help explain the support stockholmer Jun 2012 #59

The amicus briefs to the SCOTUS to shoot down the law tell you which side is REALLY right wing. joshcryer Jun 2012 #63

They don't support a mandate, their original plan was a "tax credit." joshcryer Jun 2012 #61

The Heritage Foundation 'mandate' was a TAX CREDIT. joshcryer Jun 2012 #60

You are incorrect. Maven Jun 2012 #65

That's dubious at best. The Heritage Foundations Health guy denies ever supporting it. joshcryer Jun 2012 #66

No he doesn't. What I see there is an elaborate and pained effort to pivot. Maven Jun 2012 #68

A tax credit is not the same thing as a tax penalty. The pivot is on you. joshcryer Jun 2012 #69

Perhaps you missed the part where he used the word "fine" in his paper. Maven Jun 2012 #71

One is a penalty for not doing something. The other is a reward for doing something. joshcryer Jun 2012 #73

Butler's clearly stated intention was to fine people who failed to insure themselves Maven Jun 2012 #79

The "penalty" is not being able to have a tax credit! By law they don't get a tax credit! joshcryer Jun 2012 #80

No, again you are incorrect. Maven Jun 2012 #81

Yep, good old post-partisan Obama. joshcryer Jun 2012 #82

The right didn't really drive the narrative. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #85

I disagree. I've seen the points originate from guys like Timothy P Carney and Avik Roy. joshcryer Jun 2012 #92

Well it's a good thing Maven Jun 2012 #90

The public option was still alive until Scott Brown got seated. joshcryer Jun 2012 #94

Ideologically they wouldn't dig it much but as constituted TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #112

The public option has a 95%+ MLR, so it would be the cheapest by far. joshcryer Jun 2012 #115

There is no public option so I can't say what the MLR might be. TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #178

You're right, it's a disaster of a policy.. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #119

Fascinating. The new Consumer Protection Agency needs to look in to that shit. joshcryer Jun 2012 #121

Obama disagreed with you. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #125

As Krugman pointed out, Obama fed the right wing meme with his Harry and Louise ads. joshcryer Jun 2012 #126

Bs, if he was that naive, he did not belong in the race. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #127

"he did not belong"? Anyone can run. joshcryer Jun 2012 #128

BTW, I have made it clear to you on several occasions that PARTISANSHIP is what we need. joshcryer Jun 2012 #130

You're absolutely right on the partisanship issue. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #138

Can't disagree with anything you said there. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #222

No damn wonder this was trashed re: 'Butler's clearly stated intention was to fine people clang1 Jun 2012 #131

As usual, the right wing lies treestar Jun 2012 #91

It doesn't JUST guarantee profits to a completely parasitic industry. bvar22 Jun 2012 #67

THANK YOU Skittles Jun 2012 #74

I fully support the mandate. It's usu. young, healthy people who don't buy ins. Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #75

And certainly don't lay down with one, it'll eat your face! There are plenty of differences, lonestarnot Jun 2012 #76

Agreed. k&r n/t Laelth Jun 2012 #77

like NAFTA, a Republican could never have pulled this crap off upi402 Jun 2012 #86

That's precisely what worries me about Social Security. (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2012 #99

Yep! Wait for it. Come Dec. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2012 #151

Yup. nt Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #100

I disagree. The mandate is essential for the health care act to work. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #89

Sorry, a mandate to pay taxes to pay for a public good eridani Jun 2012 #142

I am not happy with the Affordable Health Care Act rhett o rick Jun 2012 #150

The way to make it better would be to have the feds DICTATE a single comprehensive eridani Jun 2012 #205

Yes I agree with you. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #207

Many nations employ a mandate for health insurance, yet not one of them allows profit from Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #157

I will be glad to discuss if you refrain from putting words into my mouth. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #159

My question is specific and yet you walked around it. Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #160

Your "specific" question was asked in multiple ways. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #162

You realize i hope that the mandate will affect a very small rhett o rick Jun 2012 #163

Rhett, it is very different from the SS tax. That goes into a public fund for the people. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #181

You know, I may have been wrong on this. I think I am beginning to see some light. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #188

It's a very complex situation Rhett, and I always love your posts sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #191

I am still thinking this thru rhett o rick Jun 2012 #206

You make a good point, which is often over-looked, that the mandate covers a relatively sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #209

Pffft clang1 Jun 2012 #93

So, what do you think of a little thing called The Constitution, which was proposed by WEALTHY patrice Jun 2012 #193

i.e. Aristocrats looking to get out from under regulation by the crown. patrice Jun 2012 #194

I am not sure where you are headed with this, but our Constitution rhett o rick Jun 2012 #197

The point was that the mandate should be rejected because it was proposed by the Heritage Fndtn. patrice Jun 2012 #198

Wow that's quite a bit to absorb in one sitting. I am thinking the mandate isnt such a good idea. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #201

he's given in on so many issues it's discouraging Doctor_J Jun 2012 #95

The 'mandate' of course should be an entirely government-run health system Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2012 #96

Agree n/t clang1 Jun 2012 #103

RIGHT FUCKING ON! Drunken Irishman Jun 2012 #101

That sure took up a lot of screen space for sarcasm clang1 Jun 2012 #104

Nope. I guess I don't... Drunken Irishman Jun 2012 #106

Depends how you look at it is all. But you're right clang1 Jun 2012 #107

It can't be all or nothing... Drunken Irishman Jun 2012 #110

Nope. Not even at the top. Maybe with a once in a generation president, clang1 Jun 2012 #113

"Do liberals really believe...whether liberals want to admit it or not". So you're not a liberal? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #140

Not mine and therein is the whole damn problem to clang1 Jun 2012 #146

You know, though how things APPEAR does depend upon how you look at them, that doesn't make patrice Jun 2012 #192

i disagree veganlush Jun 2012 #105

The mandate is not like auto insurance. No one is forced to buy sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #114

Yes, the existence of health insurance companies is itself the problem. Zalatix Jun 2012 #129

when an uninsured person goes to the er veganlush Jun 2012 #213

You are wrong. When an uninsured person goes to the ER, they must be treated with or without sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #214

Utter nonsense: the idea that there's no difference between D and R PBass Jun 2012 #111

"I would prefer single payer' they all say. Why? Few actual single payer programs exist while Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #158

Crickets. woo me with science Jun 2012 #221

Hatred for all things Obama? How about hatred for all things Romney(Care)2.0? Zalatix Jun 2012 #116

Romney vetoed the mandate in Mass. joshcryer Jun 2012 #118

Wikipedia has it different.. Fumesucker Jun 2012 #134

He vetoed Section 5. Chapter 17, rendering 111M unenforcable. joshcryer Jun 2012 #139

Tax the rich to pay for heathcare for all Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #132

Solution: Nationalize the health insurance companies. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #141

The Republicans hate the ACA. DCBob Jun 2012 #143

would definitely be ironic to have the SC support the mandate. the joke's on us. StarryNight Jun 2012 #147

Here is where you are off base: First, low income folks get a SUBSIDY to pay their premiums, and RBInMaine Jun 2012 #153

Isn't the other thing about the pools, not just downward pressure on premiums, but also upward patrice Jun 2012 #165

But before those funds get to the poor, they now pass through the hands of the Middle Men sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #183

I think you and others like you have a kind of naive idea of what threats accomplish. You help those patrice Jun 2012 #169

Defending the constitutionality of the individual mandate is not defending Bolo Boffin Jun 2012 #185

K&R YoungDemCA Jun 2012 #210

DU Rec. Thank you for this post. nt woo me with science Jun 2012 #218

The ACA is good. The mandate is not. Still, I'm reccing this because I HATE the fucking mandate. Zalatix Jun 2012 #223

Everyone who reced this thread has drawn a line. UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #224

Your argument appears to me to be largely based on buzzwords in the form of labels. ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #225

Good thing ProSense Jun 2012 #226

I don't normally rec political posts any more but this one is so clear, bright and linear... Fumesucker Jun 2012 #227

Lol, I'm still looking for the 'line'! sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #228

If you happen upon it UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #229