General Discussion

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)

118. This is a ridiculous post.

Tue Jun 26, 2012, 01:04 PM

Jun 2012

1) Throwing around a figure like 90% in an unqualified fashion is rhetorical silliness. It is the kind of number I hear tossed around when people don't actually have numbers, statistics, or actual arguments.

2) We really Did need a public option or cost controls. Neither were present in the bill that was crafted and then pushed during the budget debate.

3) This post is self hate. Yes, a lot of us disagree with the healthcare reform that was passed. I disagree with it a good deal but really it doesn't matter a whit whether we like it or not. The Supremes have it right now and they are gonna do whatever they like. All you are doing is attacking fellow Democrats.

Honestly, what are you accomplishing by putting forth this? Castigating those that wanted a single payer or at least a friggin public option? I'm sorry if we weren't all a part of the Blue-Dog choir and couldn't embrace "market solutions." I agree that there were some conditionally useful reforms in the bill.

If you want to be productive, then try to help figure out what to push for next.

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I can't believe some Libs/Progressives here would rather see the ACA struck down [View all] FarLeftFist Jun 2012 OP

I just read perino the asshole thinks along the same lines. nt Whisp Jun 2012 #1

Exactly. If there is one defining thing that separates us from conservatives it is FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #5

Universal health care would help everyone and rid us of the for-profit nightmare just1voice Jun 2012 #2

And the fight continues. Doesn't mean we should punish those benefitting because we FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #6

The ACA is a poison pill of fiscal suicide. Chan790 Jun 2012 #9

With all due respect, dawg Jun 2012 #10

They're really not going to shelf it. Chan790 Jun 2012 #14

That's what they said after Teddy Roosevelt failed to get something passed. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #16

I disagree, and I shall explain why. dawg Jun 2012 #17

Here's the thing... FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #39

We might get something good out of a complete collapse of the system, but ... dawg Jun 2012 #63

With the existing mess that should take another ten or so years flamingdem Jun 2012 #74

Can we store the dead bodies at your house in the meantime? jeff47 Jun 2012 #87

No, throwing out the republicans will give us the framework through which we get single-payer. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #133

I'm very interested in your plan to elect liberal Democrats in Mississippi, jeff47 Jun 2012 #161

Why won't it happen? A great message is all that is needed. Besides, we don't need ALL of them to be FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #166

And those libs get into office where? jeff47 Jun 2012 #167

Conservatives were just in power for the last decade. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #171

Wow! 1980 and 1994 were in the last decade? (nt) jeff47 Jun 2012 #173

The problem is that ACA gets in the way of that single payer revolution... shaayecanaan Jun 2012 #164

I've been reading all the threads on this. Autumn Jun 2012 #176

Just like they weren't going to shelve it during the Clinton administration jeff47 Jun 2012 #86

There is an average of 19 years between health care reform attempts. ehrnst Jun 2012 #123

Twenty years is past crisis time TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #66

So you were asleep in the 90s? jeff47 Jun 2012 #81

Only if you live in a static universe, Jeff TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #143

I see, so you were awake, you just are unaware of any history before that? jeff47 Jun 2012 #160

I agree with you Mojorabbit Jun 2012 #127

You mean, you're no better off without it, right? MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #114

How about the subsidies? That makes it affordable for flamingdem Jun 2012 #52

The subsidies don't do all that much to help dflprincess Jun 2012 #65

Excellent points, all completely ignored by those pushing their false paradigm just1voice Jun 2012 #78

Why any one really believes that Congress is going to fund the subsidies is beyond me. It's really SammyWinstonJack Jun 2012 #115

Very good explanation. Thank you Autumn Jun 2012 #177

You sound like someone who talks a lot and accomplishes absolutely nothing. MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #113

However, thre is an average of 19 years between health care reform attempts. ehrnst Jun 2012 #122

+1,000,000. Devilgrrrl started a thread about such people last week. closeupready Jun 2012 #124

All or nothing... DearAbby Jun 2012 #3

DU rec...nt SidDithers Jun 2012 #4

k&r...oh, believe it.. spanone Jun 2012 #7

There is only one reason why I do not want it struck down... cynatnite Jun 2012 #8

I want ONE PART of it struck down, with prejudice.... mike_c Jun 2012 #11

Just wondering SoutherDem Jun 2012 #19

yes, lol... mike_c Jun 2012 #29

As I Understand It, the Legislation Addresses Corporate Profits On the Road Jun 2012 #57

I read a while back that there are loopholes in how that is calculated. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2012 #131

+1. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #104

You should be absolutely thrilled.. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #12

I agree, and I am absolutely thrilled. I don't like the mandate either, but FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #40

How about the lives lost because people can't afford health care? just1voice Jun 2012 #80

The people want a lot of things. jeff47 Jun 2012 #83

Wow. No more discrimination? Really? So families of all sorts will be treated equally under the Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #13

Those who are doing that are already set financially NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #15

Well, I don't want to be mandated to buy something I can never afford to use. EFerrari Jun 2012 #20

What is the phone number of the last lady you spoke to who said call back in six months NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #32

It was the main number for the Santa Clara Valley Medicaid office. EFerrari Jun 2012 #44

That meme is silly treestar Jun 2012 #59

Actually... girl gone mad Jun 2012 #90

Yeah. Insurance is like that. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #102

Maybe you can compare apples to apples on an exchange TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #150

That's a different issue in that the cost should not be different depending on how it gets paid for treestar Jun 2012 #148

As medicaid exists today it Riftaxe Jun 2012 #178

I'd rather see it struck UP, with a competitive public option. Thegonagle Jun 2012 #18

That's the spirit. But a public option needs a bill to attach itself to in the first place. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #41

The ACA is not great. It is barely better than the system previously in place. Bette Noir Jun 2012 #21

I had shitty insurance at work before ACA Bake Jun 2012 #27

No insurance chervilant Jun 2012 #165

They are worse than the Teabaggers with their ideological purity. They'd rather people suffer Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #22

That is completely false, most people would rather everyone had health care just1voice Jun 2012 #79

Not completely false. It's common sense. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2012 #101

Very well stated and I agree 100% with EVERY word you said! Auntie Bush Jun 2012 #23

did you take a poll or something that shows a significant portion of DUers want that? yurbud Jun 2012 #24

even if there WAS a significant portion of people who wanted that, you don't persuade anyone through yurbud Jun 2012 #25

... SidDithers Jun 2012 #31

!!!!! dionysus Jun 2012 #70

that's just of people who want the individual mandate struck down NOT the whole law as the OP said yurbud Jun 2012 #89

The argument that judicial nullification would pave the way for single payer is laughable bluestateguy Jun 2012 #26

yes, as soon as ACA is struck down the republicans will vote for single payer. dionysus Jun 2012 #71

Republicans?! Hell, I think you'd be lucky to get 50% of the Democrats. bluestateguy Jun 2012 #72

i know. which is why the whole argument is ridiculous. dionysus Jun 2012 #73

You must be new Gman Jun 2012 #28

Right.. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #58

At the very least they've got their priorities all screwed up Gman Jun 2012 #68

Just goes to show Democrats can be as ignorant as Republicans BEAU1943 Jun 2012 #30

ACA, for lack of a better word, is a pile of crap magic59 Jun 2012 #33

DOES NOTHING??! Do you know how many of those 50 million will now be covered by medicaid?? FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #43

Move? DonCoquixote Jun 2012 #77

The Insurance Industry Perpetual Profit Protection Act JoeyT Jun 2012 #34

HA! Great post. bigwillq Jun 2012 #36

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #76

Are you really that simple-minded? MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #108

While I agree that what we currently have is not what I had wished for the American people that need lonestarnot Jun 2012 #35

I am sorry to hear that your imagination is so limited. Laelth Jun 2012 #37

The Real Health Care Debate and why the ACA is Not a good policy. We lose if this reform passes crunch60 Jun 2012 #38

for the win, thank you! Myrina Jun 2012 #153

Without a public option, the ACA is financially unsustainable joeybee12 Jun 2012 #42

ACA is unsustainable... meaculpa2011 Jun 2012 #92

Agreed. Also, it will be easier to fix as an existing law than to start from scratch. DCBob Jun 2012 #45

Oh yeah, they'll fix it "later" dflprincess Jun 2012 #46

Seems ProSense Jun 2012 #47

Fixing it later is more likely to happen than starting over and getting public option. DCBob Jun 2012 #48

Given the "fix it later" track record dflprincess Jun 2012 #49

There have been many changes to existing legislation over the years. DCBob Jun 2012 #94

Just like they did with Social Security treestar Jun 2012 #60

Look at this post in my journal. The teabaggers are obstructionists. joshcryer Jun 2012 #69

It probably would have been if we GOTV in 2010 and the Tea Baggers didn't sabatoge it. joshcryer Jun 2012 #67

I don't understand why people Dokkie Jun 2012 #50

We can't change the past, trash it and try again = NEVER. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #53

I say its poison Dokkie Jun 2012 #64

The next draft is in 20 years. jeff47 Jun 2012 #84

Can I borrow your broad brush when you are done? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #51

How so? FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #55

Well I know more than just one nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #61

It's not a broad brush if I used the word "SOME". FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #138

all or nothing perfectionist types nt ecstatic Jun 2012 #54

Striving for perfection is a noble cause but even the Constitution has been amended 27x FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #56

like kissing the devil upi402 Jun 2012 #62

Does anyone remember Joe Lieberman got in the way of Medicare for all? flamingdem Jun 2012 #75

No mention of the 80% MLR in this entire thread. n/t yodermon Jun 2012 #82

Would get in the way of claiming the mandate is a gold mine. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2012 #85

And no mention of the Democrat Baucus having single payer advocates arrested hempoilworks Jun 2012 #95

This bill was written by the insurance companies. It is only insurance reform, which was needed,but still_one Jun 2012 #88

I was very disapointed with ACA, but I would never want it to go away without a ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #91

Overpriced underinsurance means that if you get seriously sick-- eridani Jun 2012 #93

Everyone on left sadly is not sane or nor racist marias23 Jun 2012 #96

My daughter revolution breeze Jun 2012 #97

Remember, you are talking about non-reality purists, or IOW, the left's version of the TeaRadicals. RBInMaine Jun 2012 #98

Wow: about non-reality purists, or IOW, the left's version of the TeaRadicals clang1 Jun 2012 #100

Scott Walker's famous words, "Divide and Conquer" crunch60 Jun 2012 #159

Further insults against people that should be your friends clang1 Jun 2012 #99

If the corporatists deem their own solution unconstitutional, all that's left is Single Payer. Marr Jun 2012 #103

Single Payer is not happening. Idealism gets us nothing at all. MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #110

Defeatist nonsense. Marr Jun 2012 #117

It's the Supreme Court approved Law of the Land. That's called realism. MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #172

LOL-- it was 5-4. Marr Jun 2012 #174

You can't stand it when the Supreme Court makes a fool of you, huh? MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #175

Huh? Marr Jun 2012 #179

Your math is wrong. bvar22 Jun 2012 #105

FarLeft...Could you or someone please answer a question for me... truth2power Jun 2012 #106

My twin boys are covered because of the ACA. Without it they aren't. Any questions? MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #112

That's not responsive to my question.... truth2power Jun 2012 #116

Yes, there are Sgent Jun 2012 #157

Thanks for answering my question.n/t truth2power Jun 2012 #162

Some people can't see past their own selfishness, Democrat and Republican. MjolnirTime Jun 2012 #107

It's sad and self defeating. All of this is n/t clang1 Jun 2012 #111

Not a fan of the law blackspade Jun 2012 #109

This is a ridiculous post. kenfrequed Jun 2012 #118

Yeah, it's almost funny. Marr Jun 2012 #119

It is why they don't win in places like, oh Wisconsin recently I'd say.... clang1 Jun 2012 #120

Any excuse to bash the left. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #156

Ah yes, let us embrace a Republican policy, since it was pushed by a Democratic president MadHound Jun 2012 #121

I want to see fixes/improvements Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2012 #125

Yep n/t clang1 Jun 2012 #128

I'm torn on this. TeamPooka Jun 2012 #126

IMO Either everyone has it, or no one does clang1 Jun 2012 #130

You'd think the GOP business types... TeamPooka Jun 2012 #141

Really sort of a good point clang1 Jun 2012 #144

I don't want to see the whole bill struck down. Pab Sungenis Jun 2012 #129

After all this time, the misinformation about the ACA here is mind-boggling BenzoDia Jun 2012 #132

I agree. The mis-info IS mind-boggling. You are not forced to purchase anything like some believe FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #136

I can't believe that some Dems are cheering for the success of a Republican policy, MadHound Jun 2012 #134

I hardly think contributing taxes to a healthcare fund is a republican policy. Also... FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #135

Not me. But in all honesty, I am more worried that it would help Romney. Taverner Jun 2012 #137

I don't see it that way. I think if struck down people will feel we failed morally as a society. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #139

We've already failed morally as a society Taverner Jun 2012 #140

Ask them a question. drm604 Jun 2012 #142

B.I.N.G.O. Why such a cavalier attitude about death from those who purport to supprt revolution in patrice Jun 2012 #146

Or how many lives the purists are willing to sacrifice for purity. DCBob Jun 2012 #151

It's a band aid but I'll take it - TBF Jun 2012 #145

If the ACA is struck down, my brother will die. SunSeeker Jun 2012 #147

And there are thousands, maybe millions, of people like your brother. drm604 Jun 2012 #154

OMG that is so sad!! girl gone mad Jun 2012 #158

Defeating the MANDATE and keeping the rest of the reforms is IDEAL, besides grahamhgreen Jun 2012 #149

I wish that were an option but sadly it isnt. DCBob Jun 2012 #152

This is actually a right wing talking point, in the real world, grahamhgreen Jun 2012 #168

What's a "right wing talking point"? DCBob Jun 2012 #170

Republican policies don't suck less just becaues they become part of a Democratic plan. nt Raine Jun 2012 #155

it`s not as good as medicare for all but.... madrchsod Jun 2012 #163

Which has a guaranteed payout, unlike big insurance. grahamhgreen Jun 2012 #169