General Discussion

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)

185. I would like to view it myself. I think you would agree there is no one decisive

Wed Feb 22, 2017, 10:10 AM

Feb 2017

reason why people believe the political propaganda they swear by. It seems to me Democrats-liberals are open to being critical of what they read but no one is immune to manipulation especially when media omits information. Reliable sources do not always remain reliable, and reputations change, and some newspapers are not wrong all the time, but much of the time so we must all be questioning what we read and ultimately accept as truth.

When you look at the consolidation of media ownership, where other voices are severely limited, the licensing of radio and tv news we have now is not healthy for a democracy. Trump would not be possible in my view if not for decades of hate radio and Fox News. I try and remind myself that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million. The EC, although won by Trump, the protests against him since he took office tell me our country is not welcoming of the fraud con man who ran the most cynical campaign I have ever witnessed. His entire family with the exception of his young son are con artists, all for personal financial gain while giving cover to a white supremacist agenda. The corruption to come is horrifying. It was so blatant and obvious the roles they all play in this charade of him being an outsider, its shocking anyone voted for him who needed help for themselves or their children. Most Americans are offended by bigotry in all forms, and our voices are getting louder with each passing day. But to your point, it is wise to examine how people form their opinions and how people can change. I am all for that but I am not for seeing the Democratic Party pandering to bigots by advancing any legislation that undercuts the rights of others, on banning immigrants to abortion to name two, in order to get them to vote with us. Thanks for the heads up on the film, very interesting subject, especially now.

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Ironically, once you decide a person or group is "stupid," you are relieved from thinking about them [View all] RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 OP

We can't call smart people stupid just for the sake of empathy no? uponit7771 Feb 2017 #1

I'm not violent Bettie Feb 2017 #2

Yes, I agree with you to an extent. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #4

Hitler and his followers were deplorable and degenerate. As I said some were very intelligent. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #7

I do think there comes a time when one does need to de-humanize an enemy and fight. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #18

They dehumanize me everyday. They want to ban muslims, stop and frisk me, deport my family bravenak Feb 2017 #110

Where is the upside in empathizing with white supremacists? Cary Feb 2017 #172

My general label is Bettie Feb 2017 #11

They may very well be unreachable and action may be necessary to revoke some power from them RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #20

They are both deplorable AND irredeemable. AngryAmish Feb 2017 #52

Remind us about their presence & beliefs. Relatives? Alice11111 Feb 2017 #61

I don't think labeling people as stupid is the least bit dehumanizing. Glamrock Feb 2017 #153

All I can contribute here is that I have not yet met such a person. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #155

Yes you are. Glamrock Feb 2017 #158

THIS in so many ways. GoneOffShore Feb 2017 #167

Reaching out to trump voters is a waste of time Gothmog Feb 2017 #196

Because they have votes! Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2017 #68

They may have votes Bettie Feb 2017 #79

NAZIS were deplorable and degenerate. Some did have IQs though. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #3

I agree with you but DU is a place for venting. And largely falling in line with the group. KittyWampus Feb 2017 #5

I agree with you and I do think venting is important. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #21

God that's dumb 1965Comet Feb 2017 #6

That's a good point. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #10

I think it certainly does follow in terms of history, racism, etc. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #28

I followed. Explain where you got lost? nt JCanete Feb 2017 #83

Poster never said they got lost. Stop othering them. mathematic Feb 2017 #133

Um, okay that was cute, but tell you what, rather than assuming your logic sucks, as the poster I JCanete Feb 2017 #135

Logically, violence against an individual does not follow merely from 1965Comet Feb 2017 #166

thinking that there is a pronounced inferiority that people have in an area such as intelligence, JCanete Feb 2017 #170

Whatever happened to "To err is human"? 1965Comet Feb 2017 #174

no. to do something stupid is not the same as to be stupid. To err is not the same thing as to be an JCanete Feb 2017 #176

So we can just never call someone "stupid" 1965Comet Feb 2017 #182

To call somebody stupid is to make assumptions about the context via which they came to their JCanete Feb 2017 #184

From Merriam Webster: 1965Comet Feb 2017 #187

as I said elsewhere it has all the baggage. You can mean it and hear it one way, but people will JCanete Feb 2017 #188

Well, far be it from me to use a word according to its definition around here... 1965Comet Feb 2017 #191

No, that's not it. Orrex Feb 2017 #192

nonsense, you're playing games. When we have posts that say, "Yes, we are saying you are stupid!" JCanete Feb 2017 #194

Um, no. Orrex Feb 2017 #197

Except that theoretically jaywalking is victimless. It certainly isn't knowingly intended to insult JCanete Feb 2017 #202

Again and again you misstate my position Orrex Feb 2017 #203

I'm not pretending. I clearly just dont' know what your position is. You denied that words intended JCanete Feb 2017 #204

I'm sorry, but these are people who voted in a madman and are likely to have Squinch Feb 2017 #177

What does stupid mean to you? You might have a very specific sense of its definition. It has a hell JCanete Feb 2017 #178

I am perfectly well aware of the meaning of the word stupid. And these people Squinch Feb 2017 #179

oh, we aren't having a conversation. The closest thing you came to addressing in my post was that JCanete Feb 2017 #180

No. We haven't been having a conversation. You have been arguing Squinch Feb 2017 #183

+10,000 Orrex Feb 2017 #198

It's just a short jump to dehumanizing your fellow human beings. Lars39 Feb 2017 #8

There is a difference... DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #14

Definitely Lars39 Feb 2017 #40

A huge difference. Zero System Feb 2017 #59

No it doesn't. Initech Feb 2017 #53

"I won't let the fact that the Lego Batman Movie was produced by Steven Mnuchin detract from my..." DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #95

in software engineering it's called flipping the Bozo bit. Xipe Totec Feb 2017 #9

What if some people really are Bozos and are incapable of helping? DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #12

Not all of them are "Steve Cannons". Auto-correct made it "cannons' LOLZ KittyWampus Feb 2017 #31

Even a loose Bannon shoots in the right direction from time to time. nt Xipe Totec Feb 2017 #60

Yeah, he might hit you or me. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #77

I hadn't heard this context before. Thank you for sharing. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #29

So what's your red line? Obviously, racism and misogyny are not. How about KingCharlemagne Feb 2017 #13

+1 narnian60 Feb 2017 #30

I am not certain where that line would be - the line where I decide others are so deviant they need RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #39

Violence doesn't alleviate beliefs but often neither does informing of facts, debate, or dialogue. manicraven Feb 2017 #157

Condescension and self congratulation doesn't seem to be off limits for them either. Squinch Feb 2017 #103

Probably somewhere around Benghazi and private email servers. JTFrog Feb 2017 #181

No, "stupid" is actually more than just an insult. It's a measure for a person's intelligence. DetlefK Feb 2017 #15

Well, for me, you would have to go much further in order to even assert there is an objective RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #32

+1000000! SammyWinstonJack Feb 2017 #63

Yes Bettie Feb 2017 #81

I think they're stupid and I also would like to see that change. Don't you think they were ripe for BeckyDem Feb 2017 #16

Yes, I do think they were ripe and susceptible to a bully who exploits their prejudices about RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #33

I think you're taking it too far. When have Democrats ever made a campaign BeckyDem Feb 2017 #35

Frankly, and perhaps my standards are ridiculous, but I saw some of that in this past presidential RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #42

Overall, that has not been our way as a party to campaign for votes. BeckyDem Feb 2017 #46

They were ripe for a Trump. Crunchy Frog Feb 2017 #146

Never heard of it before. I looked at one review from the NYT and I am curious what you think BeckyDem Feb 2017 #152

I think the stuff about neurophysiology is somewhat tangential to the main point of the film. Crunchy Frog Feb 2017 #163

I would like to view it myself. I think you would agree there is no one decisive BeckyDem Feb 2017 #185

These people are darlings. We should put them on our holiay card list DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #17

Thanks for this. LAS14 Feb 2017 #19

Exactly. And to be clear, I would not waste any time defending Trump voters. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #34

Well said. n/t ms liberty Feb 2017 #147

Oh no. For instance I think about the crazy, degenerate assholes at JPR from time to time ismnotwasm Feb 2017 #22

Thank you for your care to everyone regardless of ideology. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #36

That is simply a stupid statement and not true. nikibatts Feb 2017 #23

How very authoritarian and unimpressive to call a bigot a bigot. LanternWaste Feb 2017 #24

I don't think I said anything of the kind. A bigot is a definable trait, "stupidity" is not. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #44

great post Locrian Feb 2017 #25

Excellent points. The global perspective makes the problem exponentially more incendiary. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #45

Bullshit. I think about them all the time. Iggo Feb 2017 #26

Fair enough. I am often challenged by when to use "I" "You" "One" "We" etc. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #37

I do that with the things I have time to check, and it helps me a lot. Iggo Feb 2017 #54

You have linked things that cannot be linked. NCTraveler Feb 2017 #27

Thanks for the heads up. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #38

I'm okay with being called an authoritarian and a fascist JustAnotherGen Feb 2017 #41

Yes. I understand as best I can - I do not have the same issues as you, obviously. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #43

In the USA JustAnotherGen Feb 2017 #165

You're totally right. TeacherB87 Feb 2017 #47

The orange blob is a narcissistic psychopath Progressive dog Feb 2017 #48

IMO, the Democratic Party is Starting to Enter Dangerous Territory On the Road Feb 2017 #49

Res ipsa loquitur DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #50

there's no penalty in American politics if one "looks small and resentful" and there's zero reason geek tragedy Feb 2017 #70

Your premise is false. njhoneybadger Feb 2017 #51

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2017 #55

It's also true that the greater majority of those objecting to calling racists, racists - Maru Kitteh Feb 2017 #65

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2017 #71

I agree with your observations and the sentiments you express with much of this post. Maru Kitteh Feb 2017 #74

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2017 #86

Jan Brewer is the former Crypt Keeper, I mean Governor of Arizona. Maru Kitteh Feb 2017 #91

Former Gov. Brewer is a Trump supporter and a birther DesertRat Feb 2017 #99

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2017 #101

I don't have a link to my living room and why on *Earth* would I consider Maru Kitteh Feb 2017 #106

You are changing the terms Maeve Feb 2017 #123

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2017 #132

Greta's FB page WomanWhoRoars Feb 2017 #56

There is something seriously wrong with this thread njhoneybadger Feb 2017 #57

Calling people deplorables is unlikely to raise their awareness of the current political situation. jalan48 Feb 2017 #58

Your post doesn't make sense. mattclearing Feb 2017 #62

There are people who think certain races are stupid humans. Do you think that isn't dehumanizing? nt JCanete Feb 2017 #76

off-topic nt mattclearing Feb 2017 #164

For starters, I have nothing in common with that crowd... Blue_Tires Feb 2017 #64

+1000 Quayblue Feb 2017 #66

You can resent it all you want. What works is what matters. Saying you're not going to sit and nod JCanete Feb 2017 #78

I'm not slinging shit back this time Blue_Tires Feb 2017 #89

Like I said, deciding to opt out of that work is entirely understandable. Also, again, nobody here JCanete Feb 2017 #115

Sorry, I'm all out of empathy with these people. NastyRiffraff Feb 2017 #67

Yes. Stupid and Deplorable ... exactly correct. There are no two ways about it. NurseJackie Feb 2017 #72

I watched two live casts today--full of deplorables ismnotwasm Feb 2017 #84

"Giving them a chance" and "Trying to understand" is a SIGN OF WEAKNESS!!! NurseJackie Feb 2017 #90

Yeah one woman went on a demented rant toward me ismnotwasm Feb 2017 #94

to each their own. geek tragedy Feb 2017 #69

and how would you do that? Even if your diagnosis of who can change and who cannot is wrong, I'm all JCanete Feb 2017 #82

step one is to make Trump fail as much as we can. on everything. geek tragedy Feb 2017 #85

I believe it leads to distancing and ignoring TNLib Feb 2017 #73

That's about right. People can choose to do what they want to, but being aware of what JCanete Feb 2017 #80

yep, great post! And when you diagnose a people as this "other" you make yourself blind to the JCanete Feb 2017 #75

Oh bullshit!! bravenak Feb 2017 #111

wow, that was super insightful, thanks for chiming in. Changed my mind! what the hell Brav JCanete Feb 2017 #113

I'm mad at you for agreeing with this. :( bravenak Feb 2017 #114

But you aren't helping me see where I'm wrong. nt JCanete Feb 2017 #116

Fine. bravenak Feb 2017 #124

+1000! mcar Feb 2017 #186

i love how these lectures are never for the right wing bigots JI7 Feb 2017 #87

Like there's really a shortage of lectures for the right wing bigots on DU. LOLZ KittyWampus Feb 2017 #93

Yeah why is that? treestar Feb 2017 #173

the ones cheering on the muslim ban and deportations are the victims JI7 Feb 2017 #88

lots of concern lately... Phentex Feb 2017 #92

Are we supposed to have empathy for this lovely fellow? DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #96

i think we are supposed to blame Clinton for signing NAFTA JI7 Feb 2017 #98

NAFTA made the Deplorable threaten to sodomize a woman in a hijab ? DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2017 #105

Calling a view stupid is not the problem.. JHan Feb 2017 #97

My opinion of engaging those ideologies is by calling them out as racists, bigots, sexists, etc. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #159

The natural response ... NanceGreggs Feb 2017 #100

Exactly right, Nance, especially the last paragraph: NastyRiffraff Feb 2017 #112

Kay. You go ahead and think act and engage with them. Have fun with that. Squinch Feb 2017 #102

So should we black people just ignore the racism and othering they do to us? bravenak Feb 2017 #104

Tone police yourself among people who wish you harm - yeah that's the ticket... JHan Feb 2017 #107

It's fucking ignorant and I see now how easy it is to sell us out bravenak Feb 2017 #108

It isn't about whether their behavior is unacceptable. It isn't about trying to get you to accept JCanete Feb 2017 #121

Why should a black woman like me not think it is STUPID to vote for a guy who thinks I'm lazy? bravenak Feb 2017 #128

For the same reason that person shouldn't think a black person who doesn't have a job is lazy. JCanete Feb 2017 #134

Thinking all blacks are lazy IS STUPID bravenak Feb 2017 #137

but it won't work. WE don't have the numbers to shame them out of existence. They have bubbles they JCanete Feb 2017 #138

They barely beat us electorally and did not beat us popularly bravenak Feb 2017 #139

As a white folk who used to be a dumbass, or far more dumbass than I am now if you like, I disagree JCanete Feb 2017 #140

Take too long and it too shame inducing for black folks to have to deal with bravenak Feb 2017 #141

Understood. Had another post going before reading this, but I think that even if people who don't JCanete Feb 2017 #144

Ok. I feel you. And yes, I do think it's your job. I'm tired. bravenak Feb 2017 #145

...and as an addendum, I don't know how to reconcile that with not making you feel sold out. That JCanete Feb 2017 #148

Thank you. I appreciate this post. Thank you for understanding. bravenak Feb 2017 #150

I am a communication scholar commenting on the act of communicating. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #122

Then give these lectures to those who promote hateful policies. bravenak Feb 2017 #126

The problem with this argument is that you dont' even think those people are reachable. JCanete Feb 2017 #142

Too much work to reach them bravenak Feb 2017 #143

To be clear, I am not advocating "reaching them" or anything of the sort. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #149

I get it, but.... bravenak Feb 2017 #151

It is hard. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #154

Thank you. I hope you are too and we win without losing our minds bravenak Feb 2017 #156

I bet you dont ever bother to answer my post bravenak Feb 2017 #109

I bet you're right, because it all really does seem always to come back to the same damn thing Maru Kitteh Feb 2017 #117

You are muthafuckin right about this bravenak Feb 2017 #119

I like the way you think, Maru Kitteh! WinkyDink Feb 2017 #120

Deplorables and their apologists are the biggest safe-space, delicate, precious snowflakes Maru Kitteh Feb 2017 #136

Just to be clear about how I feel about racism, sexism, etc. - I copy/pasted response 159 below. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #160

There's "understand" and "understand." LAS14 Feb 2017 #190

No where in the OP did it say to sympathize for those folks. And that wasn't the intent. KittyWampus Feb 2017 #127

It sure did judge the fuck out of us who think that deplorables are stupid as fuck bravenak Feb 2017 #130

I'm not in favor of eschewing labels for voting blocs. They self-identified. WinkyDink Feb 2017 #118

Sorry for my absence. I am recovering from a minor procedure today. RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #125

I'm sorry, but I seem to be all out fucks to give about Deplorables MrScorpio Feb 2017 #129

I agree. Crunchy Frog Feb 2017 #131

labels teslar Feb 2017 #161

Ignoring "just words" is not a tenable strategy for people who are not white men. Maru Kitteh Feb 2017 #162

Ah, yes. Another call to "reach out to" and "understand" Trump voters Orrex Feb 2017 #168

Do you mind copy/pasting the part of my OP that advocates "reaching out" and "understanding"? RadiationTherapy Feb 2017 #169

It's all of a piece Orrex Feb 2017 #175

Why would they post such stuff in DU? LAS14 Feb 2017 #189

Self-delete. Replied in the wrong spot. Orrex Feb 2017 #193

Did you respond to the wrong post? This doesn't seem directed at my question. LAS14 Feb 2017 #199

NO DAMMIT I'LL REPLY WHEREVER I WANT!!!!!1! Orrex Feb 2017 #200

Aren't they the ones doing that? treestar Feb 2017 #171

Why Democrats Need to Forget About "Reaching Out" Gothmog Feb 2017 #195

Understanding others' capabilities and/or limits and treating them accordingly is not dehumanizing Nwgirl503 Feb 2017 #201