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spin

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100. We currently have the most expensive but far from the best healthcare program in the world ...

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:01 PM

Jun 2012

It remains to be seen how "Obama care" will play out and how much it will cost but currently I feel that the system might well prove far more expensive than what we have today and it might actually provide less care.

It does appear that the insurance industry will benefit and will make even more profit off the illness of our citizens.

I hope that I am wrong but it does appear to me that today that the insurance companies won.

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Well, once again, we the people have lost. [View all] MadHound Jun 2012 OP

It is a tax now Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #1

HA! Then penalty is considered a tax. MadHound Jun 2012 #16

The tax goes to the government Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #22

Either you or I have misunderstood the ruling. I think it's you. Lionessa Jun 2012 #44

It's my understanding Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #62

and if you have no income shanti Jun 2012 #66

Yep - No income, no tax. cliffordu Jun 2012 #68

Of course you don't. Those with income below 133% of the poverty level will be eligible for Medicaid bornskeptic Jun 2012 #112

Increasing the number of medicaid patients Riftaxe Jun 2012 #212

How does this work? It used to be that those who were indigent were covered directly by sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #226

I have not read that portion of the law - Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #163

Actually, it *is* an income tax. Specifically, it is 1% of your taxable income for a few years. ieoeja Jun 2012 #249

Thanks. Now that you mention it - Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #259

And that tax does NOT get you health care or health insurance, it's strictly a penalty. Lionessa Jun 2012 #73

Pretty much. Especially if your state refuses to establish an exchange. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #89

Even if the tax assists the exchanges, it only means that after paying a tax, you still have to buy Lionessa Jun 2012 #165

So the money goes to the government and then what? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #54

If they do go bankrupt, then maybe Congress will have to give us single payer? nt freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #197

Or maybe they'll be deemed too big to fail. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #211

in theory. not in practice. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #219

Or.. you can realize that we're already paying a shitload of money to cover the uninsured already nt progressivebydesign Jun 2012 #67

We really aren't. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #159

+1. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #222

d'oh! BOG PERSON Jun 2012 #263

When did the Supreme Court allocate taxation? bahrbearian Jun 2012 #65

I believe there's a misunderstanding because USSC compared mandatory ins to a tax, which Lionessa Jun 2012 #85

I know , you know, but does the poster know. bahrbearian Jun 2012 #158

Not exactly. Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #168

That is correct Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #192

There are two options (not an "it") Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #217

Only the penalty is considered a tax, not the premiums SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #293

Nope ProSense Jun 2012 #2

+1 n/t southern_belle Jun 2012 #104

Hell yes klook Jun 2012 #199

Agreed! calimary Jun 2012 #301

Yes, it is. sinkingfeeling Jun 2012 #326

Welcome to NeoAmerica. nt woo me with science Jun 2012 #3

Scary stuff indeed. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2012 #84

+1 freshwest Jun 2012 #277

Key Provisions That Take Effect Immediately Swede Jun 2012 #4

And I guarantee you every single major insurance corporation MadHound Jun 2012 #20

And I guarantee that there are people working at blocking every one of those loopholes. Swede Jun 2012 #40

And who will win in that battle MadHound Jun 2012 #76

Ha. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #160

And let's not forget they had two years to hike them ridiculously in preparation. Lionessa Jun 2012 #48

Yes, I believe you're wrong. eomer Jun 2012 #77

I gather you're not a bookkeeper or accountant or anything that would allow you to Lionessa Jun 2012 #95

I'm an actuary, have worked mostly on retirement plans but also on health insurance. eomer Jun 2012 #121

You gave me no additional facts. That bit of subterfuge has been known from the beginning, Lionessa Jun 2012 #167

Google it eaglesfanintn Jun 2012 #200

Cool - so based on this, we the people are winning with this legislation, not losing. klook Jun 2012 #216

I never said they wouldn't get rebates, Lionessa Jun 2012 #218

I gather you've never been through a government audit looking for all those hidden/improper charges. Hoyt Jun 2012 #122

Yes, been audited (well the companies I worked for) for payroll, workmens' comp, and sales/use tax. Lionessa Jun 2012 #169

BTW, as a young accoutant I participated in auditing a very large TX company, Lionessa Jun 2012 #175

Some audits may be jokes. But, ask a hospital about Medicare/caid audits. Hoyt Jun 2012 #196

Yup, Paula Deen has nothing on an accountant when it comes to cooking. Zalatix Jun 2012 #321

i seem to recall reading that the 80-85% mandate was actually lower than current practice. if HiPointDem Jun 2012 #223

No they haven't. mzmolly Jun 2012 #117

The biggest savings to the Health Insurers is that there truedelphi Jun 2012 #235

Those with turnips for brains will fight this law just like the birthers and their insanity DainBramaged Jun 2012 #126

Who's got more turnips for brains, those who fight this law MadHound Jun 2012 #132

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz DainBramaged Jun 2012 #145

So what other Republican policy will you sleepwalk your way into supporting? n/t MadHound Jun 2012 #148

Ya know I'm sorry this has made you so hateful DainBramaged Jun 2012 #176

You're being hateful in calling people names, but accuse others of hatefulness. Classic you. Lionessa Jun 2012 #177

Join them, goodbye DainBramaged Jun 2012 #180

LOL, loved the graphics. freshwest Jun 2012 #188

Thank you thank you for my next trick I'll make a Republican dissappear DainBramaged Jun 2012 #194

Oooh! That would be marvelous! freshwest Jun 2012 #202

It's amazing this stinker is still going. DainBramaged Jun 2012 #243

Indeed... freshwest Jun 2012 #253

Can't debate on the merits and facts, MadHound Jun 2012 #195

You have the right idea, what a waste of time this thread is. freshwest Jun 2012 #171

Indeed Aerows Jun 2012 #261

Yes, it looks like Americans may yet unite in caring about each other. freshwest Jun 2012 #266

I believe so too, My friend Aerows Jun 2012 #270

Reminds me of this video: freshwest Jun 2012 #283

Only increases greater than 10% eridani Jun 2012 #322

I think this puts the Insurance companies on notice TeamPooka Jun 2012 #5

Maybe you should listen to the president speak. WilliamPitt Jun 2012 #6

The President nailed it Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #18

Well, duh, MadHound Jun 2012 #26

You'll have to wrest him from Carlyle or similar I imagine. -eom Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #35

Oh brother... I am tired of paying for uninsured people thru my taxes now. progressivebydesign Jun 2012 #72

Well then, I guess you would be against the only real solution then MadHound Jun 2012 #80

Oh brother... I am tired of hearing that bullshit. The government collects taxes from Autumn Jun 2012 #152

+1,000 freshwest Jun 2012 #204

+2000 madrchsod Jun 2012 #264

thank you. thank you. (took the words right out of my mouth - and then, some more! :) inna Jun 2012 #320

Ugh. What an ugly post. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #161

Sad to see "progressives" using sad Autumn Jun 2012 #265

You are aware that you get a huge discount because you have insurance Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #172

I thought that post was being sarcastic so I rec'd it. But thanks for the information. Very telling. freshwest Jun 2012 #242

Prior to this year Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #260

less than 5% of total costs. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #234

I have no problem paying for the uninsured poor. I do have a problem paying for the 38%... joshcryer Jun 2012 #268

Will, we both know that what the president says does not necessarily translate to what gets done xiamiam Jun 2012 #27

Why? His speeches and his actions seem to rarely line up. Lionessa Jun 2012 #55

I'm having almost as much sharp_stick Jun 2012 #7

Me too... SidDithers Jun 2012 #29

Not surprising that you identify with Cartman, MadHound Jun 2012 #33

Your bitter tears, when so many are rightly celebrating, are nectar to my soul...nt SidDithers Jun 2012 #38

My thoughts exactly. white_wolf Jun 2012 #51

See #38...nt SidDithers Jun 2012 #58

It is remarkably like a GOP presser, ain't it? It's hilarious to hear their reactions on the radio. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2012 #99

Broccoli ? I believe it said peas. Autumn Jun 2012 #157

Yeah, what strange bedfellows they keep. joshcryer Jun 2012 #269

not to 40 million uninsured people it isn't, and those with pre-exisiting conditions, and those still_one Jun 2012 #8

Key phrase, "least controls". MadHound Jun 2012 #32

They will not be forced to buy insurance Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #129

The government doesn't need to collect more revenue from the middle class.. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #164

Pretty regressive zipplewrath Jun 2012 #231

+1 n/t southern_belle Jun 2012 #110

well said maddezmom Jun 2012 #116

I'm not sold on the argument sadbear Jun 2012 #9

What we need is single payer UHC, MadHound Jun 2012 #37

No, I'm sorry, I don't agree... cynatnite Jun 2012 #10

And starting in 2014 millions more will be feeling the downside. MadHound Jun 2012 #39

And you think that the provision prohibiting raising premiums without justification... cynatnite Jun 2012 #52

No, I know that right now, MadHound Jun 2012 #63

Actually, no their not. Fawke Em Jun 2012 #86

Well, not to belittle you or what your husband does, MadHound Jun 2012 #93

Thanks for that insight. nt bananas Jun 2012 #147

Really it shouldn't take much inside trading to see what some money grubbers have in mind nolabels Jun 2012 #162

cut out the little guys; what's so surprising? they've been doing it for years -- there are fewer HiPointDem Jun 2012 #241

start to climb? you mean they havent been leftyohiolib Jun 2012 #142

Go take a nap catbyte Jun 2012 #11

Thanks, cat. elleng Jun 2012 #15

What you said X10 except no persons to mention... freshwest Jun 2012 #41

Ah, so because it benefits you immediately, it's all good. MadHound Jun 2012 #42

THere have been many such posts the past few weeks, "Obamacare helps ME, so..." Lionessa Jun 2012 #82

Who is out in the cold here? treestar Jun 2012 #305

You assume much, MadHound Jun 2012 #312

So now you do have health insurance treestar Jun 2012 #319

Actually, ACA does NOT benefit ME at all now, and NEVER will. It ain't about me. freshwest Jun 2012 #94

Was I addressing my comment to you? MadHound Jun 2012 #97

I agreed with her, and now you are here. Answer me. freshwest Jun 2012 #101

Gee, demanding aren't you. MadHound Jun 2012 #108

Our family has already benefitted. Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #233

BS. You have NO IDEA if you will benefit. n/t Dawgs Jun 2012 #120

BS. You have NO IDEA if I will benefit, as it's impossible for you to know. What nonsense. freshwest Jun 2012 #185

WRONG!! You are the one saying you will never benefit. I'm saying you have no idea. Dawgs Jun 2012 #186

More nonsensical insults. I understand that is all you have. EOM. freshwest Jun 2012 #189

You are fighting a losing battle Aerows Jun 2012 #244

start? They've already been doing it for over a decade hfojvt Jun 2012 #137

I think all of us know personally someone who has or will benefit from this. AngryOldDem Jun 2012 #107

He will still be choosing between bankruptcy and treatment eridani Jun 2012 #323

I agree with you completely, but I might take a nap too. Hoyt Jun 2012 #127

K&R. They will take their mandated trillions and crush every reform in the bill grahamhgreen Jun 2012 #12

Really? They couldn't kill the ACA with torrents of cash previous to this. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #43

Got that right... Why else would they scream so much? The ACA has provisions to hire the people who freshwest Jun 2012 #105

Why would they kill it? They wrote it! girl gone mad Jun 2012 #166

Those that assert, must first prove. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #170

When the bill passed, Baucus said: HiPointDem Jun 2012 #247

Why did Wellpoint then spend millions fighting it??? Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #272

Can you agree that they will lobby to increase that percentage? grahamhgreen Jun 2012 #198

Don't get it, eh? elleng Jun 2012 #13

More like refuses to get it. I'm done arguing with the snarks and RW talking points. freshwest Jun 2012 #187

Smart. elleng Jun 2012 #224

Yes, it is strange. Any good news for any Democrat and it's a war zone here. freshwest Jun 2012 #239

Hope so, fresh. elleng Jun 2012 #245

Hum, some aspirin and re-cutting the stems might help. Enjoy her birthday when she gets off! freshwest Jun 2012 #246

Thanks. Will try. elleng Jun 2012 #255

I disagree with you, MadHound - The penalty, er, tax for not buying insurance is so low... slackmaster Jun 2012 #14

And you don't think that will be changed?! MadHound Jun 2012 #50

You seem to think the tax get something akin to insurance or healthcare, it doesn't, so how does Lionessa Jun 2012 #184

You will be proven wrong over time. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #17

They keep talking about being forced to buy it treestar Jun 2012 #30

Those are Right Wing Talking Points parroted here by...wait a minute. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #57

Since when has adapting Republican policy ever been a step in the right direction? MadHound Jun 2012 #61

Premiums are now regulated by law. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #71

You know what my income is? MadHound Jun 2012 #87

Wow. Make your stupid accusations elsewhere, I'm not buying. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #280

You were the one who implied you knew what my income was, MadHound Jun 2012 #284

What a load of horse shit. phleshdef Jun 2012 #19

You and I don't agree often Aerows Jun 2012 #262

for many here, if anything Obama promotes wins.. it's the end of life as we know it. dionysus Jun 2012 #278

Who is this "we", you are talking about? NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #21

Wow, tell that to the millions helped. Disgusting! Logical Jun 2012 #23

Who does NOT NEED health insurance? treestar Jun 2012 #24

Most young people, MadHound Jun 2012 #70

Even if you are young, you could be struck with something treestar Jun 2012 #78

Tell that to my friends frazzled Jun 2012 #90

+1 aquart Jun 2012 #208

Aren't you the lucky one! Wait Wut Jun 2012 #236

I can't count the number of times I've heard a conservative make that argument. Codeine Jun 2012 #298

You sound like the Freepers. Arkana Jun 2012 #25

No, it is forcing millions to purchase a product that they may or may not need, MadHound Jun 2012 #74

Don't feed me that crap about "may or may not need". Arkana Jun 2012 #113

One of the things that does'nt get mentioned Puzzledtraveller Jun 2012 #115

So did you say the same when we HAD to pay for auto DiverDave Jun 2012 #28

If you don't drive, you don't have to pay for auto insurance. Zalatix Jun 2012 #34

Unlike breathing, which is not optional jsmirman Jun 2012 #47

Pretty much. Zalatix Jun 2012 #79

True, but lots DiverDave Jun 2012 #56

Two Sitting Dem Senators Won't Even Attend The National Convention This Year Yavin4 Jun 2012 #31

Insurance premiums... soccer1 Jun 2012 #36

Insurance premiums in MA are among the highest in the nation. n/t EFerrari Jun 2012 #49

Does Mass have a mandate to buy insurance.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #88

Um.. Yes they have "Romneycare" the pilot program for ACA /nt Dragonfli Jun 2012 #225

Wake up. Jankyn Jun 2012 #45

Well said... soccer1 Jun 2012 #53

So we should just feed the beast instead? MadHound Jun 2012 #102

I was not happy that health insurance companies had anything to do with it BBGC Jun 2012 #46

I'm really sorry you feel that way. I feel that this was a first step. jillan Jun 2012 #59

The mandate doesn't really have teeth, from my understanding ecstatic Jun 2012 #60

You got that right. randome Jun 2012 #83

I'm not sure.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #91

Look at this: ecstatic Jun 2012 #111

I believe the SC addressed this tax issue.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #123

Garnishing of wages.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #133

how will they be worse off? they don't have to pay for the care of anyone who doesn't buy their HiPointDem Jun 2012 #251

Because people like me, with tons of "pre-existing conditions" ecstatic Jun 2012 #254

i imagine that a lot of the scofflaws will be on the lower end of the income spectrum & thus more HiPointDem Jun 2012 #256

As a taxpayer and health care consumer, it's a victory for me. progressivebydesign Jun 2012 #64

It does NOT force anyone to buy anything. MrSlayer Jun 2012 #69

Where to begin? For one thing, it's not a "mandated monopoly" unless there is only one Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #75

+1 AtomicKitten Jun 2012 #81

+2 BlueCaliDem Jun 2012 #96

Most arguments are based on emotion Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #135

+3 treestar Jun 2012 #306

You sound like a Teabagger. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #92

Some people want everything or nothing. Period. BlueCaliDem Jun 2012 #103

Gee, I thought you were classier than that MadHound Jun 2012 #119

The Heritage foundation version did not include regulation and price controls. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #150

+1 Most people don't listen or view Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #155

No, but it did have the individual mandate MadHound Jun 2012 #220

Not to mention, if you don't pay the small penalty, you can't mzmolly Jun 2012 #125

And just how long do you think that will last? MadHound Jun 2012 #134

Madhound, insurance companies can't mzmolly Jun 2012 #138

Yeah, just like the Kock brothers can't overturn anything MadHound Jun 2012 #140

Supreme Court decisions Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #146

I don't like the Koch brothers, but they mzmolly Jun 2012 #154

Supreme Court made it clear today Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #141

Now you're just making stuff up. cottonseed Jun 2012 #149

We control the White House and the Senate. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #151

What law was ever perfect straight out of the gate? AngryOldDem Jun 2012 #98

We currently have the most expensive but far from the best healthcare program in the world ... spin Jun 2012 #100

I think so, too. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #174

That same thread title can be seen over at the conservative blog sites. DCBob Jun 2012 #106

I stopped reading at the second sentence... TroglodyteScholar Jun 2012 #109

. mzmolly Jun 2012 #114

Now that we have fused insurance corporations with government ... earthside Jun 2012 #118

or we nationalize them and then.... KurtNYC Jun 2012 #131

I disagree, my beautiful daughter disagrees, my beloved ex disagrees, all of us positively affected DainBramaged Jun 2012 #124

Some here appear to be as uneducated mzmolly Jun 2012 #128

Shoot from the mouth..... DainBramaged Jun 2012 #144

Nice that you got yours, MadHound Jun 2012 #136

That's absurd. mzmolly Jun 2012 #139

Whatever DainBramaged Jun 2012 #143

It is a joyous moment for those that benefit from the ACA Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #156

These people would disagree with you... liberal N proud Jun 2012 #130

Such a tiny victory. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #178

When I was in the 18-26 age group, I went to the doctor 3 times Art_from_Ark Jun 2012 #297

"We?" blue neen Jun 2012 #153

You don't even know what a monopoly is. Son of Gob Jun 2012 #173

The Health Insurance Industry wins big either way. At least with this ruling more people will have gateley Jun 2012 #179

I know where you're headed Madhound. Baitball Blogger Jun 2012 #181

Join the Republicans, Libertarians, Teabaggers & DevonRex Jun 2012 #182

Thanks for your OP. The thread is very informative. MineralMan Jun 2012 #183

Quite. Nt DevonRex Jun 2012 #190

... spanone Jun 2012 #191

That's classy, MadHound Jun 2012 #205

No matter how much they raise the prices, they only get to keep 20%... kentuck Jun 2012 #193

For now, MadHound Jun 2012 #201

What I mean is that if the 20% doubles with higher prices, their profits double... kentuck Jun 2012 #207

How does it ProSense Jun 2012 #203

You and I agree on few things Aerows Jun 2012 #250

Thanks... Ian David Jun 2012 #206

Another classy one MadHound Jun 2012 #209

Actually, ProSense Jun 2012 #214

I like single payer much more but . . . TomClash Jun 2012 #210

Those that are complaining Aerows Jun 2012 #248

It's a win for anyone 26 and younger Aerows Jun 2012 #213

Ah, is that what you're going to say to the middle class starting in 2014 MadHound Jun 2012 #215

I won't have to do so Aerows Jun 2012 #221

For now, MadHound Jun 2012 #228

Well then I guess it's a sad day for you Aerows Jun 2012 #237

what's past is prologue; what to come in yours and my discharge fishwax Jun 2012 #227

I agree on all counts, but pointing out the right wing victory here is frowned upon /nt Dragonfli Jun 2012 #229

Ego-inflated theatrics, it appears that the DU possibly is not healthy for some people.Ask yourself, patrice Jun 2012 #230

Another who can't argue on the facts and merits, MadHound Jun 2012 #232

No, just tired of wasting my time with close-minded demigogs. I have never seen patrice Jun 2012 #287

In short, who died and made you god? The inability to admit you're only talking about PROBABILITIY patrice Jun 2012 #290

Well, you answered that question, MadHound Jun 2012 #303

You have no authority to speak for the people, only yourself. And YOU are wrong. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #238

Oh enough already. We don't need the left's version of the Tea Party around here. RBInMaine Jun 2012 #240

I for one look forward to the day we are forced to eat broccoli Capt. Obvious Jun 2012 #252

woo woo AtomicKitten Jun 2012 #257

Single payer will follow, baby steps, unless that certain someone is on the payroll DainBramaged Jun 2012 #258

All you need to do is get a public option passed. joshcryer Jun 2012 #267

Would it be possible for you to post Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #271

Would it be possible for you to show why you think EFerrari Jun 2012 #274

On the contrary Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #285

So the answer is no, you can't. Thank you. n/t EFerrari Jun 2012 #289

No, my answer was as stated Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #294

Your answer was an attack on MadHound and did not speak to the question. EFerrari Jun 2012 #295

I responded very directly to the question. Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #296

MadHound is discussing the health insurance industry bail out. EFerrari Jun 2012 #307

Bwahahaha! Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #316

Gee, you seem to know a lot about me for somebody who's only been around since Dec. MadHound Jun 2012 #309

When someone goes to the default position of Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #314

MadHound's position has been consistently wrong. joshcryer Jun 2012 #318

Let's see, the alternate version, OK MadHound Jun 2012 #276

Oh, the old 'both parties are the same' BS Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #286

Well, that would be we the people MadHound Jun 2012 #299

It was I who asked you to explain Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #311

My niece who had cancer at 2, would beg to differ. JoePhilly Jun 2012 #273

Yeah, that's why health insurance company stocks dropped today. cbayer Jun 2012 #275

Oh, I'm sure that insurance stocks will rebound nicely, MadHound Jun 2012 #281

"from a for profit corporation." PoliticAverse Jun 2012 #279

I respectfully disagree DonCoquixote Jun 2012 #282

Well said! Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #288

No, after this decision, there will be little pressure on the insurance companies EFerrari Jun 2012 #292

And your point is? RegieRocker Jun 2012 #302

My point is the insurance companies are not in a bind EFerrari Jun 2012 #304

"we"? Is that you and the horse you rode in on? Who gave you authority to define "we"? nt patrice Jun 2012 #291

I disagree RegieRocker Jun 2012 #300

Then why did big insurance companies' stocks go down after the ruling in favor of mandate? jenmito Jun 2012 #308

Why did hospital stocks go up after the ruling? MadHound Jun 2012 #310

You think they like this?: jenmito Jun 2012 #313

Im a people and I dont feel I lost anything... DCBob Jun 2012 #315

Oh yay another one... one_voice Jun 2012 #317

A question: Should the whole thing be killed so we can start again? Kablooie Jun 2012 #324

The individual mandate should certainly be killed, MadHound Jun 2012 #325

The problem is.. Kablooie Jun 2012 #329

If it's going to be such a death knell for the insurance industry, MadHound Jun 2012 #330

The only thing that I have faith in is ... Kablooie Jun 2012 #333

Soooo chronically ill people are not "people" TZ Jun 2012 #327

And where did you get that from MadHound Jun 2012 #328

The fact that you said the "people lose" TZ Jun 2012 #331

So, in two, three years, when your insurance premiums are shooting through the roof MadHound Jun 2012 #332

You're Operating from a False Premise Yavin4 Jun 2012 #334