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freshwest

(53,661 posts)

101. I agreed with her, and now you are here. Answer me.

Reply to MadHound (Reply #97)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:02 PM

Jun 2012

Since I will get nothing. Will you lighten up on the rest of us who support the ACA but won't benefit?

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Well, once again, we the people have lost. [View all] MadHound Jun 2012 OP

It is a tax now Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #1

HA! Then penalty is considered a tax. MadHound Jun 2012 #16

The tax goes to the government Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #22

Either you or I have misunderstood the ruling. I think it's you. Lionessa Jun 2012 #44

It's my understanding Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #62

and if you have no income shanti Jun 2012 #66

Yep - No income, no tax. cliffordu Jun 2012 #68

Of course you don't. Those with income below 133% of the poverty level will be eligible for Medicaid bornskeptic Jun 2012 #112

Increasing the number of medicaid patients Riftaxe Jun 2012 #212

How does this work? It used to be that those who were indigent were covered directly by sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #226

I have not read that portion of the law - Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #163

Actually, it *is* an income tax. Specifically, it is 1% of your taxable income for a few years. ieoeja Jun 2012 #249

Thanks. Now that you mention it - Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #259

And that tax does NOT get you health care or health insurance, it's strictly a penalty. Lionessa Jun 2012 #73

Pretty much. Especially if your state refuses to establish an exchange. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #89

Even if the tax assists the exchanges, it only means that after paying a tax, you still have to buy Lionessa Jun 2012 #165

So the money goes to the government and then what? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #54

If they do go bankrupt, then maybe Congress will have to give us single payer? nt freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #197

Or maybe they'll be deemed too big to fail. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #211

in theory. not in practice. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #219

Or.. you can realize that we're already paying a shitload of money to cover the uninsured already nt progressivebydesign Jun 2012 #67

We really aren't. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #159

+1. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #222

d'oh! BOG PERSON Jun 2012 #263

When did the Supreme Court allocate taxation? bahrbearian Jun 2012 #65

I believe there's a misunderstanding because USSC compared mandatory ins to a tax, which Lionessa Jun 2012 #85

I know , you know, but does the poster know. bahrbearian Jun 2012 #158

Not exactly. Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #168

That is correct Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #192

There are two options (not an "it") Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #217

Only the penalty is considered a tax, not the premiums SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #293

Nope ProSense Jun 2012 #2

+1 n/t southern_belle Jun 2012 #104

Hell yes klook Jun 2012 #199

Agreed! calimary Jun 2012 #301

Yes, it is. sinkingfeeling Jun 2012 #326

Welcome to NeoAmerica. nt woo me with science Jun 2012 #3

Scary stuff indeed. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2012 #84

+1 freshwest Jun 2012 #277

Key Provisions That Take Effect Immediately Swede Jun 2012 #4

And I guarantee you every single major insurance corporation MadHound Jun 2012 #20

And I guarantee that there are people working at blocking every one of those loopholes. Swede Jun 2012 #40

And who will win in that battle MadHound Jun 2012 #76

Ha. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #160

And let's not forget they had two years to hike them ridiculously in preparation. Lionessa Jun 2012 #48

Yes, I believe you're wrong. eomer Jun 2012 #77

I gather you're not a bookkeeper or accountant or anything that would allow you to Lionessa Jun 2012 #95

I'm an actuary, have worked mostly on retirement plans but also on health insurance. eomer Jun 2012 #121

You gave me no additional facts. That bit of subterfuge has been known from the beginning, Lionessa Jun 2012 #167

Google it eaglesfanintn Jun 2012 #200

Cool - so based on this, we the people are winning with this legislation, not losing. klook Jun 2012 #216

I never said they wouldn't get rebates, Lionessa Jun 2012 #218

I gather you've never been through a government audit looking for all those hidden/improper charges. Hoyt Jun 2012 #122

Yes, been audited (well the companies I worked for) for payroll, workmens' comp, and sales/use tax. Lionessa Jun 2012 #169

BTW, as a young accoutant I participated in auditing a very large TX company, Lionessa Jun 2012 #175

Some audits may be jokes. But, ask a hospital about Medicare/caid audits. Hoyt Jun 2012 #196

Yup, Paula Deen has nothing on an accountant when it comes to cooking. Zalatix Jun 2012 #321

i seem to recall reading that the 80-85% mandate was actually lower than current practice. if HiPointDem Jun 2012 #223

No they haven't. mzmolly Jun 2012 #117

The biggest savings to the Health Insurers is that there truedelphi Jun 2012 #235

Those with turnips for brains will fight this law just like the birthers and their insanity DainBramaged Jun 2012 #126

Who's got more turnips for brains, those who fight this law MadHound Jun 2012 #132

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz DainBramaged Jun 2012 #145

So what other Republican policy will you sleepwalk your way into supporting? n/t MadHound Jun 2012 #148

Ya know I'm sorry this has made you so hateful DainBramaged Jun 2012 #176

You're being hateful in calling people names, but accuse others of hatefulness. Classic you. Lionessa Jun 2012 #177

Join them, goodbye DainBramaged Jun 2012 #180

LOL, loved the graphics. freshwest Jun 2012 #188

Thank you thank you for my next trick I'll make a Republican dissappear DainBramaged Jun 2012 #194

Oooh! That would be marvelous! freshwest Jun 2012 #202

It's amazing this stinker is still going. DainBramaged Jun 2012 #243

Indeed... freshwest Jun 2012 #253

Can't debate on the merits and facts, MadHound Jun 2012 #195

You have the right idea, what a waste of time this thread is. freshwest Jun 2012 #171

Indeed Aerows Jun 2012 #261

Yes, it looks like Americans may yet unite in caring about each other. freshwest Jun 2012 #266

I believe so too, My friend Aerows Jun 2012 #270

Reminds me of this video: freshwest Jun 2012 #283

Only increases greater than 10% eridani Jun 2012 #322

I think this puts the Insurance companies on notice TeamPooka Jun 2012 #5

Maybe you should listen to the president speak. WilliamPitt Jun 2012 #6

The President nailed it Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #18

Well, duh, MadHound Jun 2012 #26

You'll have to wrest him from Carlyle or similar I imagine. -eom Huey P. Long Jun 2012 #35

Oh brother... I am tired of paying for uninsured people thru my taxes now. progressivebydesign Jun 2012 #72

Well then, I guess you would be against the only real solution then MadHound Jun 2012 #80

Oh brother... I am tired of hearing that bullshit. The government collects taxes from Autumn Jun 2012 #152

+1,000 freshwest Jun 2012 #204

+2000 madrchsod Jun 2012 #264

thank you. thank you. (took the words right out of my mouth - and then, some more! :) inna Jun 2012 #320

Ugh. What an ugly post. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #161

Sad to see "progressives" using sad Autumn Jun 2012 #265

You are aware that you get a huge discount because you have insurance Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #172

I thought that post was being sarcastic so I rec'd it. But thanks for the information. Very telling. freshwest Jun 2012 #242

Prior to this year Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #260

less than 5% of total costs. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #234

I have no problem paying for the uninsured poor. I do have a problem paying for the 38%... joshcryer Jun 2012 #268

Will, we both know that what the president says does not necessarily translate to what gets done xiamiam Jun 2012 #27

Why? His speeches and his actions seem to rarely line up. Lionessa Jun 2012 #55

I'm having almost as much sharp_stick Jun 2012 #7

Me too... SidDithers Jun 2012 #29

Not surprising that you identify with Cartman, MadHound Jun 2012 #33

Your bitter tears, when so many are rightly celebrating, are nectar to my soul...nt SidDithers Jun 2012 #38

My thoughts exactly. white_wolf Jun 2012 #51

See #38...nt SidDithers Jun 2012 #58

It is remarkably like a GOP presser, ain't it? It's hilarious to hear their reactions on the radio. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2012 #99

Broccoli ? I believe it said peas. Autumn Jun 2012 #157

Yeah, what strange bedfellows they keep. joshcryer Jun 2012 #269

not to 40 million uninsured people it isn't, and those with pre-exisiting conditions, and those still_one Jun 2012 #8

Key phrase, "least controls". MadHound Jun 2012 #32

They will not be forced to buy insurance Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #129

The government doesn't need to collect more revenue from the middle class.. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #164

Pretty regressive zipplewrath Jun 2012 #231

+1 n/t southern_belle Jun 2012 #110

well said maddezmom Jun 2012 #116

I'm not sold on the argument sadbear Jun 2012 #9

What we need is single payer UHC, MadHound Jun 2012 #37

No, I'm sorry, I don't agree... cynatnite Jun 2012 #10

And starting in 2014 millions more will be feeling the downside. MadHound Jun 2012 #39

And you think that the provision prohibiting raising premiums without justification... cynatnite Jun 2012 #52

No, I know that right now, MadHound Jun 2012 #63

Actually, no their not. Fawke Em Jun 2012 #86

Well, not to belittle you or what your husband does, MadHound Jun 2012 #93

Thanks for that insight. nt bananas Jun 2012 #147

Really it shouldn't take much inside trading to see what some money grubbers have in mind nolabels Jun 2012 #162

cut out the little guys; what's so surprising? they've been doing it for years -- there are fewer HiPointDem Jun 2012 #241

start to climb? you mean they havent been leftyohiolib Jun 2012 #142

Go take a nap catbyte Jun 2012 #11

Thanks, cat. elleng Jun 2012 #15

What you said X10 except no persons to mention... freshwest Jun 2012 #41

Ah, so because it benefits you immediately, it's all good. MadHound Jun 2012 #42

THere have been many such posts the past few weeks, "Obamacare helps ME, so..." Lionessa Jun 2012 #82

Who is out in the cold here? treestar Jun 2012 #305

You assume much, MadHound Jun 2012 #312

So now you do have health insurance treestar Jun 2012 #319

Actually, ACA does NOT benefit ME at all now, and NEVER will. It ain't about me. freshwest Jun 2012 #94

Was I addressing my comment to you? MadHound Jun 2012 #97

I agreed with her, and now you are here. Answer me. freshwest Jun 2012 #101

Gee, demanding aren't you. MadHound Jun 2012 #108

Our family has already benefitted. Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #233

BS. You have NO IDEA if you will benefit. n/t Dawgs Jun 2012 #120

BS. You have NO IDEA if I will benefit, as it's impossible for you to know. What nonsense. freshwest Jun 2012 #185

WRONG!! You are the one saying you will never benefit. I'm saying you have no idea. Dawgs Jun 2012 #186

More nonsensical insults. I understand that is all you have. EOM. freshwest Jun 2012 #189

You are fighting a losing battle Aerows Jun 2012 #244

start? They've already been doing it for over a decade hfojvt Jun 2012 #137

I think all of us know personally someone who has or will benefit from this. AngryOldDem Jun 2012 #107

He will still be choosing between bankruptcy and treatment eridani Jun 2012 #323

I agree with you completely, but I might take a nap too. Hoyt Jun 2012 #127

K&R. They will take their mandated trillions and crush every reform in the bill grahamhgreen Jun 2012 #12

Really? They couldn't kill the ACA with torrents of cash previous to this. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #43

Got that right... Why else would they scream so much? The ACA has provisions to hire the people who freshwest Jun 2012 #105

Why would they kill it? They wrote it! girl gone mad Jun 2012 #166

Those that assert, must first prove. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #170

When the bill passed, Baucus said: HiPointDem Jun 2012 #247

Why did Wellpoint then spend millions fighting it??? Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #272

Can you agree that they will lobby to increase that percentage? grahamhgreen Jun 2012 #198

Don't get it, eh? elleng Jun 2012 #13

More like refuses to get it. I'm done arguing with the snarks and RW talking points. freshwest Jun 2012 #187

Smart. elleng Jun 2012 #224

Yes, it is strange. Any good news for any Democrat and it's a war zone here. freshwest Jun 2012 #239

Hope so, fresh. elleng Jun 2012 #245

Hum, some aspirin and re-cutting the stems might help. Enjoy her birthday when she gets off! freshwest Jun 2012 #246

Thanks. Will try. elleng Jun 2012 #255

I disagree with you, MadHound - The penalty, er, tax for not buying insurance is so low... slackmaster Jun 2012 #14

And you don't think that will be changed?! MadHound Jun 2012 #50

You seem to think the tax get something akin to insurance or healthcare, it doesn't, so how does Lionessa Jun 2012 #184

You will be proven wrong over time. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #17

They keep talking about being forced to buy it treestar Jun 2012 #30

Those are Right Wing Talking Points parroted here by...wait a minute. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #57

Since when has adapting Republican policy ever been a step in the right direction? MadHound Jun 2012 #61

Premiums are now regulated by law. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #71

You know what my income is? MadHound Jun 2012 #87

Wow. Make your stupid accusations elsewhere, I'm not buying. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #280

You were the one who implied you knew what my income was, MadHound Jun 2012 #284

What a load of horse shit. phleshdef Jun 2012 #19

You and I don't agree often Aerows Jun 2012 #262

for many here, if anything Obama promotes wins.. it's the end of life as we know it. dionysus Jun 2012 #278

Who is this "we", you are talking about? NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #21

Wow, tell that to the millions helped. Disgusting! Logical Jun 2012 #23

Who does NOT NEED health insurance? treestar Jun 2012 #24

Most young people, MadHound Jun 2012 #70

Even if you are young, you could be struck with something treestar Jun 2012 #78

Tell that to my friends frazzled Jun 2012 #90

+1 aquart Jun 2012 #208

Aren't you the lucky one! Wait Wut Jun 2012 #236

I can't count the number of times I've heard a conservative make that argument. Codeine Jun 2012 #298

You sound like the Freepers. Arkana Jun 2012 #25

No, it is forcing millions to purchase a product that they may or may not need, MadHound Jun 2012 #74

Don't feed me that crap about "may or may not need". Arkana Jun 2012 #113

One of the things that does'nt get mentioned Puzzledtraveller Jun 2012 #115

So did you say the same when we HAD to pay for auto DiverDave Jun 2012 #28

If you don't drive, you don't have to pay for auto insurance. Zalatix Jun 2012 #34

Unlike breathing, which is not optional jsmirman Jun 2012 #47

Pretty much. Zalatix Jun 2012 #79

True, but lots DiverDave Jun 2012 #56

Two Sitting Dem Senators Won't Even Attend The National Convention This Year Yavin4 Jun 2012 #31

Insurance premiums... soccer1 Jun 2012 #36

Insurance premiums in MA are among the highest in the nation. n/t EFerrari Jun 2012 #49

Does Mass have a mandate to buy insurance.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #88

Um.. Yes they have "Romneycare" the pilot program for ACA /nt Dragonfli Jun 2012 #225

Wake up. Jankyn Jun 2012 #45

Well said... soccer1 Jun 2012 #53

So we should just feed the beast instead? MadHound Jun 2012 #102

I was not happy that health insurance companies had anything to do with it BBGC Jun 2012 #46

I'm really sorry you feel that way. I feel that this was a first step. jillan Jun 2012 #59

The mandate doesn't really have teeth, from my understanding ecstatic Jun 2012 #60

You got that right. randome Jun 2012 #83

I'm not sure.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #91

Look at this: ecstatic Jun 2012 #111

I believe the SC addressed this tax issue.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #123

Garnishing of wages.... soccer1 Jun 2012 #133

how will they be worse off? they don't have to pay for the care of anyone who doesn't buy their HiPointDem Jun 2012 #251

Because people like me, with tons of "pre-existing conditions" ecstatic Jun 2012 #254

i imagine that a lot of the scofflaws will be on the lower end of the income spectrum & thus more HiPointDem Jun 2012 #256

As a taxpayer and health care consumer, it's a victory for me. progressivebydesign Jun 2012 #64

It does NOT force anyone to buy anything. MrSlayer Jun 2012 #69

Where to begin? For one thing, it's not a "mandated monopoly" unless there is only one Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #75

+1 AtomicKitten Jun 2012 #81

+2 BlueCaliDem Jun 2012 #96

Most arguments are based on emotion Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #135

+3 treestar Jun 2012 #306

You sound like a Teabagger. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #92

Some people want everything or nothing. Period. BlueCaliDem Jun 2012 #103

Gee, I thought you were classier than that MadHound Jun 2012 #119

The Heritage foundation version did not include regulation and price controls. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #150

+1 Most people don't listen or view Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #155

No, but it did have the individual mandate MadHound Jun 2012 #220

Not to mention, if you don't pay the small penalty, you can't mzmolly Jun 2012 #125

And just how long do you think that will last? MadHound Jun 2012 #134

Madhound, insurance companies can't mzmolly Jun 2012 #138

Yeah, just like the Kock brothers can't overturn anything MadHound Jun 2012 #140

Supreme Court decisions Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #146

I don't like the Koch brothers, but they mzmolly Jun 2012 #154

Supreme Court made it clear today Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #141

Now you're just making stuff up. cottonseed Jun 2012 #149

We control the White House and the Senate. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #151

What law was ever perfect straight out of the gate? AngryOldDem Jun 2012 #98

We currently have the most expensive but far from the best healthcare program in the world ... spin Jun 2012 #100

I think so, too. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #174

That same thread title can be seen over at the conservative blog sites. DCBob Jun 2012 #106

I stopped reading at the second sentence... TroglodyteScholar Jun 2012 #109

. mzmolly Jun 2012 #114

Now that we have fused insurance corporations with government ... earthside Jun 2012 #118

or we nationalize them and then.... KurtNYC Jun 2012 #131

I disagree, my beautiful daughter disagrees, my beloved ex disagrees, all of us positively affected DainBramaged Jun 2012 #124

Some here appear to be as uneducated mzmolly Jun 2012 #128

Shoot from the mouth..... DainBramaged Jun 2012 #144

Nice that you got yours, MadHound Jun 2012 #136

That's absurd. mzmolly Jun 2012 #139

Whatever DainBramaged Jun 2012 #143

It is a joyous moment for those that benefit from the ACA Harmony Blue Jun 2012 #156

These people would disagree with you... liberal N proud Jun 2012 #130

Such a tiny victory. girl gone mad Jun 2012 #178

When I was in the 18-26 age group, I went to the doctor 3 times Art_from_Ark Jun 2012 #297

"We?" blue neen Jun 2012 #153

You don't even know what a monopoly is. Son of Gob Jun 2012 #173

The Health Insurance Industry wins big either way. At least with this ruling more people will have gateley Jun 2012 #179

I know where you're headed Madhound. Baitball Blogger Jun 2012 #181

Join the Republicans, Libertarians, Teabaggers & DevonRex Jun 2012 #182

Thanks for your OP. The thread is very informative. MineralMan Jun 2012 #183

Quite. Nt DevonRex Jun 2012 #190

... spanone Jun 2012 #191

That's classy, MadHound Jun 2012 #205

No matter how much they raise the prices, they only get to keep 20%... kentuck Jun 2012 #193

For now, MadHound Jun 2012 #201

What I mean is that if the 20% doubles with higher prices, their profits double... kentuck Jun 2012 #207

How does it ProSense Jun 2012 #203

You and I agree on few things Aerows Jun 2012 #250

Thanks... Ian David Jun 2012 #206

Another classy one MadHound Jun 2012 #209

Actually, ProSense Jun 2012 #214

I like single payer much more but . . . TomClash Jun 2012 #210

Those that are complaining Aerows Jun 2012 #248

It's a win for anyone 26 and younger Aerows Jun 2012 #213

Ah, is that what you're going to say to the middle class starting in 2014 MadHound Jun 2012 #215

I won't have to do so Aerows Jun 2012 #221

For now, MadHound Jun 2012 #228

Well then I guess it's a sad day for you Aerows Jun 2012 #237

what's past is prologue; what to come in yours and my discharge fishwax Jun 2012 #227

I agree on all counts, but pointing out the right wing victory here is frowned upon /nt Dragonfli Jun 2012 #229

Ego-inflated theatrics, it appears that the DU possibly is not healthy for some people.Ask yourself, patrice Jun 2012 #230

Another who can't argue on the facts and merits, MadHound Jun 2012 #232

No, just tired of wasting my time with close-minded demigogs. I have never seen patrice Jun 2012 #287

In short, who died and made you god? The inability to admit you're only talking about PROBABILITIY patrice Jun 2012 #290

Well, you answered that question, MadHound Jun 2012 #303

You have no authority to speak for the people, only yourself. And YOU are wrong. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #238

Oh enough already. We don't need the left's version of the Tea Party around here. RBInMaine Jun 2012 #240

I for one look forward to the day we are forced to eat broccoli Capt. Obvious Jun 2012 #252

woo woo AtomicKitten Jun 2012 #257

Single payer will follow, baby steps, unless that certain someone is on the payroll DainBramaged Jun 2012 #258

All you need to do is get a public option passed. joshcryer Jun 2012 #267

Would it be possible for you to post Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #271

Would it be possible for you to show why you think EFerrari Jun 2012 #274

On the contrary Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #285

So the answer is no, you can't. Thank you. n/t EFerrari Jun 2012 #289

No, my answer was as stated Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #294

Your answer was an attack on MadHound and did not speak to the question. EFerrari Jun 2012 #295

I responded very directly to the question. Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #296

MadHound is discussing the health insurance industry bail out. EFerrari Jun 2012 #307

Bwahahaha! Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #316

Gee, you seem to know a lot about me for somebody who's only been around since Dec. MadHound Jun 2012 #309

When someone goes to the default position of Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #314

MadHound's position has been consistently wrong. joshcryer Jun 2012 #318

Let's see, the alternate version, OK MadHound Jun 2012 #276

Oh, the old 'both parties are the same' BS Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #286

Well, that would be we the people MadHound Jun 2012 #299

It was I who asked you to explain Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #311

My niece who had cancer at 2, would beg to differ. JoePhilly Jun 2012 #273

Yeah, that's why health insurance company stocks dropped today. cbayer Jun 2012 #275

Oh, I'm sure that insurance stocks will rebound nicely, MadHound Jun 2012 #281

"from a for profit corporation." PoliticAverse Jun 2012 #279

I respectfully disagree DonCoquixote Jun 2012 #282

Well said! Summer Hathaway Jun 2012 #288

No, after this decision, there will be little pressure on the insurance companies EFerrari Jun 2012 #292

And your point is? RegieRocker Jun 2012 #302

My point is the insurance companies are not in a bind EFerrari Jun 2012 #304

"we"? Is that you and the horse you rode in on? Who gave you authority to define "we"? nt patrice Jun 2012 #291

I disagree RegieRocker Jun 2012 #300

Then why did big insurance companies' stocks go down after the ruling in favor of mandate? jenmito Jun 2012 #308

Why did hospital stocks go up after the ruling? MadHound Jun 2012 #310

You think they like this?: jenmito Jun 2012 #313

Im a people and I dont feel I lost anything... DCBob Jun 2012 #315

Oh yay another one... one_voice Jun 2012 #317

A question: Should the whole thing be killed so we can start again? Kablooie Jun 2012 #324

The individual mandate should certainly be killed, MadHound Jun 2012 #325

The problem is.. Kablooie Jun 2012 #329

If it's going to be such a death knell for the insurance industry, MadHound Jun 2012 #330

The only thing that I have faith in is ... Kablooie Jun 2012 #333

Soooo chronically ill people are not "people" TZ Jun 2012 #327

And where did you get that from MadHound Jun 2012 #328

The fact that you said the "people lose" TZ Jun 2012 #331

So, in two, three years, when your insurance premiums are shooting through the roof MadHound Jun 2012 #332

You're Operating from a False Premise Yavin4 Jun 2012 #334