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Time for change

(13,737 posts)
40. Palast brings up some excellent points
Fri Jun 29, 2012, 10:06 AM
Jun 2012

I believe the main issues he brings up are mostly important for our future rather than for the 2004 election per se. Nearly 250 thousand uncounted votes is unacceptable in a democracy, especially when most of those uncounted votes are distributed among our most vulnerable citizens. It should provide a lesson for us for the future, to use methods that produce accurate results.

What effect those ballots would have had on the 2004 election is another question. Florida had a comparable number of spoiled ballots (undervotes and overvotes) in 2000, approximately 175 thousand. 64,248 were undervotes. Of these, approximately half of them had no marks on them at all, so could not have been counted for either candidate. Another few thousand contained votes for third party candidates, were found to be overvotes rather than undervotes when they were examined, or contained marks in places that were not adjacent to candidates' names. That left approximately 27 thousand that were counted for Bush or Gore in the Miami Herald's investigation. From that count, Gore came up with a net advantage of 1,314 votes over Bush -- plenty enough to make up his deficit of 537 votes in Florida (though the Herald spun its own results differently, to de-emphasize that point), but nowhere near enough to overcome a deficit of the nature of 119 thousand votes, which was the case for Kerry in Ohio in 2004.

There were also about 110 thousand overvotes in Florida in 2004. A statistical analysis of who those votes were meant for indicated that Gore probably would have had a net advantage over Bush of about 50 thousand votes. This calculation is made by assuming (reasonably) that the vast majority of overvotes that contained one vote for Gore or Bush and one vote for a third party candidate were actually meant for the major party candidate. However, courts have not allowed that kind of analysis to be used to allocate votes. The only definitive evidence of voter intent which probably would have been used to allocate votes (had the Gore team requested it in 2004) was a write in for the candidate on the ballot. Had that analysis been performed in Florida in 2000, Gore would have picked up an additional 873 net votes -- again, plenty enough to carry Florida, but way short of what Kerry needed in Ohio in 2004.

The provisional ballots are another story. Palast notes 155 thousand provisional ballots in Ohio in 2004 that were not counted. He is no doubt correct that the good majority of these would have probably been for Kerry. But keep in mind that it is not at all clear how many of those provisional ballots would have been found to be legal had the case been taken to court. The ballots are called "provisional" because it was not clear at the time they voted whether the voter was eligible to vote.

Let's say Kerry pushed the matter and demanded that it be settled in court. Suppose he picked up 3 thousand additional votes from a count of the spoiled ballots (which the Florida experience in 2000 would approximately predict), thereby reducing his deficit to 116 thousand. In that case, even if all 155 thousand provisional ballots had been counted, he would have had to have won that count by an overwhelming margin to win -- approximately 136 thousand to 19 thousand. With Blackwell overseeing the process, I think it's highly unlikely that there would be a ruling to allow nearly all of the 155 thousand provisional ballots to be counted. So I think that all these factors went through Kerry's mind, and he realized that it would be such an uphill battle that he had almost no chance of winning. And that's why he conceded.

I do believe strongly that Kerry was cheated out of Ohio in 2004, and I'll make that point more concretely in other chapters, especially chapter 5, which discusses the voter purging. But I do not believe that insisting upon a count of the spoiled ballots and provisional ballots would have succeeded in goving the election to Kerry. As for the voter purging, that could theoretically have been used to give the election to Kerry. But there was not clear evidence of that available at the time.

As for New Mexico, I do believe that Kerry was cheated out of New Mexico too. But New Mexico's electoral votes would not have been enough for Kerry to win the election.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I Believe OH Iggy Jun 2012 #1
I would like to hear your theory (nt) bigwillq Jun 2012 #16
Greg Palast said it was Ohio and New Mexico: Rhiannon12866 Jun 2012 #36
Good work -if anything of the U.S. survives in decades ahead, perhaps some of this "actual history" villager Jun 2012 #2
Of course it was.... Rosco T. Jun 2012 #3
Yes nobodyspecial Jun 2012 #4
K&R DJ13 Jun 2012 #5
Pope...Catholic. Bear...woods. WinkyDink Jun 2012 #6
Great information. Thanks. crazylikafox Jun 2012 #7
Yes Dragonfli Jun 2012 #8
yes. barbtries Jun 2012 #9
A horrific thing to realize ailsagirl Jun 2012 #20
Yes but the gop did it by releasing the exit polls early, giving Kerry a win early in the day applegrove Jun 2012 #10
The GOP didn't release the exit polls, and neither they nor their lackies in the Time for change Jun 2012 #13
Conspiracy my ass CountAllVotes Jun 2012 #14
I am so buying this book. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #11
It was rigged. I watched and I remember it well. lindysalsagal Jun 2012 #12
If there are archives you can search Doremus Jun 2012 #15
Thank you. Time for change Jun 2012 #47
the right wing movement is a giant paper tiger... all fluff fascisthunter Jun 2012 #17
Of course it was. Blue_In_AK Jun 2012 #18
Definitely ailsagirl Jun 2012 #19
Yes, the 2004 elections were stolen. tabatha Jun 2012 #21
Yes. I cover that in Chapter 4, Time for change Jun 2012 #41
Yep Eddie Haskell Jun 2012 #46
What a crock! Do your research and check your facts. Coyotl Jul 2012 #66
Yes it was...and many here said it back then. zeemike Jun 2012 #22
Don Siegelman mentioned the 2000 election theft, around 2002 I believe. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #34
Agreed ...that is what must be done. zeemike Jun 2012 #38
I've said much the same thing about the absurdity of allowing private corporations to Time for change Jun 2012 #42
They need to organize then, and plan a virtual blitz of attacks on those machines sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #44
Wasn't Ohio Blackwell's gift to George Bush? He did promise to deliver it.. if you recall. n/t progressivebydesign Jun 2012 #23
That was Walden O'Dell, the CEO of Diebold Time for change Jun 2012 #25
Yes it was. Ohio flipped all of a sudden. Zoeisright Jun 2012 #24
screen shots that caught vote switching in Cincinnati & Toledo Botany Jun 2012 #26
Nothing concrete but ... slipslidingaway Jun 2012 #27
The writing was on the wall. Rember that one? Ellipsis Jun 2012 #28
Are you talking about the Hocking County technician? Time for change Jun 2012 #45
The one working on the Triad machines? Time for change Jun 2012 #49
Based on the last 12 years, I'm going to guess EVERY election will have accusations... progress2k12nbynd Jun 2012 #29
I think it discredits Mitovsky's report not to have included this fact: sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #30
God only knows! To give him the benefit of the doubt, it was a very poorly written and sloppy report Time for change Jun 2012 #32
Or he doesn't want to lose his job as exit pollster to the masses . . . nt MrTwister Jun 2012 #43
YESSSSSSSSS! burrowowl Jun 2012 #31
Cleveland friends who worked the polls talked of massive numbers. knitter4democracy Jun 2012 #33
I believe there is good evidence that this was the most important trick used to steal Time for change Jun 2012 #37
That's really all I have, but sure. knitter4democracy Jun 2012 #63
The trick was too simple to believe, just move the punch card ballots to the next precinct and Kerry Coyotl Jul 2012 #67
Greg Palast published this 11/4/04: Rhiannon12866 Jun 2012 #35
Palast brings up some excellent points Time for change Jun 2012 #40
I witnessed a DRE flipping votes in Florida in 2004... Sancho Jun 2012 #39
. CleanLucre Jun 2012 #48
Short answer, yes. Of course. MrSlayer Jun 2012 #50
Except that I believe there's a lot we can learn from it -- Time for change Jun 2012 #54
No doubt. MrSlayer Jun 2012 #57
This information is critical - imo there's no point in bothering... polichick Jun 2012 #51
It has long been a mystery to me why the Democratic Party hasn't tried more to counteract this Time for change Jun 2012 #58
I don't know, but their acceptance of election "irregularities" and receipt-free voting... polichick Jun 2012 #62
I've written a lot about the 2004 election and issues with elections. stevenleser Jun 2012 #52
Thank you -- I will take a look at them Time for change Jun 2012 #59
An excellent piece of scholarship... joycejnr Jun 2012 #53
Thank you Time for change Jun 2012 #60
K&R. It certainly was. I remember being right here as it happened. Overseas Jun 2012 #55
Yes, if you've ever taken a statistics course, it's screamingly obvious it was systematically stolen diane in sf Jun 2012 #56
Remember election night? Bush summoned the press up to the residence DefenseLawyer Jun 2012 #61
Has Kerry ever called it a stolen election? Marzupialis Jun 2012 #64
Yes. n/t Greybnk48 Jun 2012 #65
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