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Occulus

(20,599 posts)

73. His response was about their perceptions. Not yours.

Fri Mar 10, 2017, 01:17 PM

Mar 2017

See, this is part of why we lost: we were so buried in our own certainty about the "real meaning" behind their "real reasons" for voting for Trump that we never ever considered even once that these people genuinely believed what they were saying about their perceptions of him.

We did nothing at all to counter that. We instead insisted, often to their faces, they they didn't really think what they said they thought, that they were lying about their own inner racism/sexism/hatred, that they knew they were lying about, etc., etc., etc.

I'm sure in some cases that was true. It was not anywhere close to universal.

Insisting someone's lying to you about their motives when they themselves do not believe they are doing so will only turn them off and drive them away.

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Why have some decided the only way to improve the party [View all] BainsBane Mar 2017 OP

two words - "Reagan Democrat" TXCritter Mar 2017 #1

Reagan democrats are dixiecrats JI7 Mar 2017 #4

It also refers to places like McComb county Michigan BainsBane Mar 2017 #16

Yep. I lived in Macomb County for nine years. Not "Dixiecrats". Freethinker65 Mar 2017 #55

Good for them. But they voted for Trump. They are not the lowest hanging fruit for us. Squinch Mar 2017 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Freethinker65 Mar 2017 #136

Yeah...but they voted for Obama twice too... Chitown Kev Mar 2017 #147

Right now the Democratic Party has seats that haven been this low since 1920 yeoman6987 Mar 2017 #87

Why is it, yeoman6987, that so many of your posts Kingofalldems Mar 2017 #100

Let's see. . . . Jake Stern Mar 2017 #118

Gee, doesn't everyone know that's how you motivate people? kcr Mar 2017 #168

Good point about Reagan Democrats BainsBane Mar 2017 #17

It sounds like this has to be an either/or decision. Why not both? jalan48 Mar 2017 #2

I addresses that point in my OP BainsBane Mar 2017 #3

Lets do both. We have lost almost all the state governments to Republicans, we need a strategy jalan48 Mar 2017 #5

And at the same time denying why they support trump JI7 Mar 2017 #6

Despite surveys showing BainsBane Mar 2017 #10

I believe that overcoming voter suppression is a HUGE opportunity. SharonAnn Mar 2017 #119

I agree and because voting is controlled at the state level we need to focus our efforts there. jalan48 Mar 2017 #124

More important get the red out Mar 2017 #7

I think she addressed that - but JustAnotherGen Mar 2017 #39

This.++++++++ littlemissmartypants Mar 2017 #45

That is who I meant get the red out Mar 2017 #114

If we focus so much on the presidency BainsBane Mar 2017 #112

THANK YOU!!! of course POC votes were down in voter suppression states!!!!! uponit7771 Mar 2017 #8

I don't get it either JHan Mar 2017 #9

They've been told that's what matters BainsBane Mar 2017 #13

Thing is.. JHan Mar 2017 #14

+1000nt iluvtennis Mar 2017 #43

Yeah and our best JustAnotherGen Mar 2017 #40

I am a white male Cosmocat Mar 2017 #49

The thing most Democrats don't get is that saying exactly what they believe without world wide wally Mar 2017 #11

"Like it is" BainsBane Mar 2017 #15

His response was about their perceptions. Not yours. Occulus Mar 2017 #73

Eloquently said, Bains! I reject that plea Cha Mar 2017 #12

We need them to win Congress back. nt geek tragedy Mar 2017 #18

But not the far more numerous black voters? BainsBane Mar 2017 #21

1) the swing districts don't have a lot of African-Americans geek tragedy Mar 2017 #35

What would you be willing to 'give up' JustAnotherGen Mar 2017 #42

As one of the infamous liberal coastal elites, I'd be willing to have the party geek tragedy Mar 2017 #113

...and since 2010 those "wwc" have put in Republicans in delisen Mar 2017 #105

not everyone who voted for Obama in 2008 (or in 2012) were madly in love geek tragedy Mar 2017 #115

But they warmed up to Donald "stiffing the working Charles Bukowski Mar 2017 #121

How is converting Republicans "clear eyed."? BainsBane Mar 2017 #146

We've won the House twice since 1992. geek tragedy Mar 2017 #161

Black voters tend to be concentrated in urban and Surburban areas. Blue_true Mar 2017 #132

People who think this are white kcr Mar 2017 #19

A good point BainsBane Mar 2017 #22

They're the same ones who buy the myth that Trump voters switched from Obama kcr Mar 2017 #97

That's not a myth... Chitown Kev Mar 2017 #149

I wasn't clear. Obviously there were some actual voters who flipped. kcr Mar 2017 #167

Yes.. Chitown Kev Mar 2017 #148

+1 betsuni Mar 2017 #164

What concerns me is that we have someone in charge of so-called "Outreach".... George II Mar 2017 #20

We do have to change BainsBane Mar 2017 #23

Dude. We lost to DFT. truebluegreen Mar 2017 #44

The thing is I've seen lots of criticism, but very few specific, positive recommendations.... George II Mar 2017 #84

It keeps coming up ismnotwasm Mar 2017 #24

Answer: because they voted for us before brooklynite Mar 2017 #25

Excellent post, Brooklynite! True Dough Mar 2017 #31

Whereas punishing the majority of Americans BainsBane Mar 2017 #123

I think generalizing is part of the problem here True Dough Mar 2017 #125

Question re this: JustAnotherGen Mar 2017 #46

You people keep bringing liquid diamond Mar 2017 #59

Those voters of color voted for Democrats before too BainsBane Mar 2017 #65

How is it you imiagine Democrats are "discriminating" by reaching out to White male voters? brooklynite Mar 2017 #67

Decrying identity politics means abandoning those issues BainsBane Mar 2017 #82

A more accurate and relevant translation being... LanternWaste Mar 2017 #69

Name the policies Clinton campaigned on... brooklynite Mar 2017 #106

She talked policy @ debates and at rallies emulatorloo Mar 2017 #134

Sensible, informative, rejection of foolish bias. Hortensis Mar 2017 #139

Several points. Stonepounder Mar 2017 #26

First BainsBane Mar 2017 #47

I agree. Stonepounder Mar 2017 #50

Well said. delisen Mar 2017 #27

I think the point is to reclaim the obama voters we lost. Parmenides72 Mar 2017 #28

We lost very few Obama voters to DT. That is a misconception. n/t pnwmom Mar 2017 #32

Yes. Hortensis Mar 2017 #138

You mean like this guy? klook Mar 2017 #29

I'm totally on board with looking forward BainsBane Mar 2017 #34

Fuck some. (n/t) Iggo Mar 2017 #30

For some reason many like to pretend that whites are the future of our party. wcast Mar 2017 #33

I agree in principle BainsBane Mar 2017 #37

Fuck many. (n/t) Iggo Mar 2017 #48

The white male Trump voters I know will never vote for a Democrat. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2017 #36

No, and those who make that argument BainsBane Mar 2017 #38

YEP Cosmocat Mar 2017 #52

Except a few voters switched from voting for Obama 2x. So you are wrong. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #58

I am talking about men who have NEVER voted Democratic. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2017 #60

Thanks or setting me straight on your post. Have a good weekend! KittyWampus Mar 2017 #63

You're welcome. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2017 #68

Well said! iluvtennis Mar 2017 #41

As a white male I can attest to the prevailing mindset of white male entitlement. gordianot Mar 2017 #51

Lack of empathy liquid diamond Mar 2017 #53

Agreed Cosmocat Mar 2017 #54

How to activate the base? NCDem777 Mar 2017 #56

I haven't seen much of what you allege... we should "cater to white male Republican voters". KittyWampus Mar 2017 #57

I've seen OPs about softening our support for abortion... also posts about immigration bettyellen Mar 2017 #102

Great post! NastyRiffraff Mar 2017 #61

Cutting into Trump's largest voting bloc is a good enough idea. Orsino Mar 2017 #62

Some good marketing people can come up with stuff that might work. And with data analysis KittyWampus Mar 2017 #64

Or just normal outreach Bradical79 Mar 2017 #98

The "everyone except me is racist/sexist" attitude that is seeping from this post is why we lost. redgreenandblue Mar 2017 #66

I asked questions BainsBane Mar 2017 #74

We don't have to cater to the worst elements of voters' personalities. lagomorph777 Mar 2017 #70

That can be part of a message BainsBane Mar 2017 #71

We have to select issues that appeal to the most people, and are the most important. lagomorph777 Mar 2017 #72

And that attitude is a problem BainsBane Mar 2017 #78

OK I think you need to list some positions that Dems should take, despite them being lagomorph777 Mar 2017 #120

HRC did that in her campaign mcar Mar 2017 #109

Bravenak liquid diamond Mar 2017 #75

Why does everyone think we have to do one or the other? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #76

Why don't you read my post? BainsBane Mar 2017 #80

Why don't you read your post? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #91

that is not the argument she was making. JHan Mar 2017 #101

Quote BainsBane Mar 2017 #141

Rigid arguments Dem2 Mar 2017 #77

If the point is to treat all groups of Americans with equal respect BainsBane Mar 2017 #85

Seems like a voter Democrats feel like they should have done better with? Dem2 Mar 2017 #99

The problem is there has been no attention on to disenfranchisement BainsBane Mar 2017 #117

HOLY SHIT LET ME RECOMMEND THIS 50 TIMES! Orrex Mar 2017 #79

The point that the party needs to focus more on BainsBane Mar 2017 #86

No, only white working class males matter. Didn't you get the memo? Orrex Mar 2017 #93

I so agree with you Orrex. nt irisblue Mar 2017 #137

The governor of Pa. is Democratic iamateacher Mar 2017 #81

But there was a Republican BainsBane Mar 2017 #83

The last governor Tom Corbett, repub iamateacher Mar 2017 #89

Okay, I'm wrong on that BainsBane Mar 2017 #96

Dems need to stand up for poor, oppressed, environment, unions and working class people lark Mar 2017 #88

Yes!! iamateacher Mar 2017 #92

White people are saying that. nt LexVegas Mar 2017 #90

It's disturbing to see no one talk about getting more women- which would make more sense to me.... bettyellen Mar 2017 #94

The Democratic Party cannot win over Trump voters and the future is in the diverse base of the party Gothmog Mar 2017 #95

I think the future of Dem party is South delisen Mar 2017 #108

As someone who is working hard to turn Texas blue, I agree Gothmog Mar 2017 #129

K&R mcar Mar 2017 #103

because white lives have always mattered more than the rest of ours La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2017 #104

And here is the thread winner! brer cat Mar 2017 #127

yup La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2017 #128

Same tired bullshit melman Mar 2017 #107

The issue is what they have said BainsBane Mar 2017 #143

There are not enough people in the House of Representatives ymetca Mar 2017 #110

People of color and women live in red states too BainsBane Mar 2017 #111

More representatives in each state ymetca Mar 2017 #116

A lot of POC in some rural areas Chitown Kev Mar 2017 #151

K&R Jamaal510 Mar 2017 #122

Focus should be on the working class, period Fiendish Thingy Mar 2017 #126

How do you define working class? BainsBane Mar 2017 #142

k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2017 #130

K&R sheshe2 Mar 2017 #131

Then there are these people JustAnotherGen Mar 2017 #135

You don't understand BainsBane Mar 2017 #145

Bains JustAnotherGen Mar 2017 #158

String-us-up theory BainsBane Mar 2017 #159

A triangulating party tries to cater to white republican votes. Our party has a history of doing JCanete Mar 2017 #140

Are you prepared to tell Bernie and his supporters BainsBane Mar 2017 #144

I just might write an essay like that Chitown Kev Mar 2017 #152

I look forward to seeing your essay. BainsBane Mar 2017 #155

They are not. They are focusing on the class warfare being waged on all of us. Yes, the white middle JCanete Mar 2017 #154

I didn't think so BainsBane Mar 2017 #160

Who is telling rather than listening? You are doing a lot of conflating and straw-manning here. JCanete Mar 2017 #166

Kicked and recced because Chitown Kev Mar 2017 #150

they are intrinsically tied together. there is no reason to sacrifice one in favor of the other. JCanete Mar 2017 #157

Elizabeth Warren thinks we can do both...if we have a clear message brooklynite Mar 2017 #153

cool! nt JCanete Mar 2017 #156

K&R betsuni Mar 2017 #162

I agree with you, and I am sick to death of hearing about working class white men. Why not go after Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #163

That's exactly what I want to know BainsBane Mar 2017 #165