General Discussion

BCBacon

(11 posts)

24. I think he will have some conflicts to work out though.

Tue Mar 14, 2017, 08:52 AM

Mar 2017

Christianity and Objectivism are fundamentally opposed at the metaphysical layers, as well as ethics.

There could be some wiggle room however for him in the Christian anarchist camp of thought - which honestly, if one is a Christian, makes a good deal of sense. The central theme being that only God has authority over man, which implies man can't have authority over man.

Many people toss out the fact Jesus said "Render under Caesar"... but that never implied Caesar was actually owed anything. It could have been very clever wordplay to avoid him having to state that taxes were immoral, which would have been an instant death sentence for him.

Very good article here supporting the idea that Jesus was an anarchist.
http://anti-state.com/redford/redford4.html

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Paul Ryan is a practicing Catholic. How can he lionize Ayn Rand, an avowed atheist? [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 OP

Because neither believers or unbelievers have a monopoly on morality? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #1

Maybe he attends Mass, but he doesn't actually "practice" the religion. SharonAnn Mar 2017 #21

No True Scotsman? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #45

He doesn't believe in or practice the teachings of the religion he claims to follow. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #82

So "real" Catholicism is incompatible with greed, then. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #92

More that it's incompatible with Randian Objectivism. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #98

One would think, although in reality- particularly US political reality for the past few decades- Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #102

Do you suggest the Vatican become as ISIS and the Taliban, and destroy these artistic treasures?? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #118

I'm suggesting the underlying premise here that believers are inherently more moral than unbelievers Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #140

Excuse me, but you are confusing "Catholicism" (as in, a religion with tenets) with its WinkyDink Mar 2017 #142

well, the vatican could take some of that scratch and feed the world's poor, couldn't they? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #144

Oh, brother. See my post above about the destruction of priceless art. Secondly, I MARRIED AN WinkyDink Mar 2017 #152

Agnosticism is great, as a general approach to everything. However, I suspect most "agnostics" Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #156

I don't think anyone is saying otherwise... whathehell Mar 2017 #158

Here's another point. Christianity didn't invent selflessness or "do unto others" Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #160

One can certainly claim to be Catholic, and claim to "practice" the rites... Orsino Mar 2017 #132

Ryan is not Catholic because whathehell Mar 2017 #161

Yeah. Orsino Mar 2017 #169

I think he will have some conflicts to work out though. BCBacon Mar 2017 #24

very good argument here supporting the idea that Jesus was an entirely fictional entity Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #43

So what's your point? Based on a historic figure or not (Yeah, yeah: Mithras; Dionysus; whoever), WinkyDink Mar 2017 #145

This is a discussion board, not a church. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #154

This came up a few years ago, and Ryan disavowed Ayn Rand and professed his Catholic Faith. TheBlackAdder Mar 2017 #41

Yep. During the 2012 Presidential campaign Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2017 #61

Rand wasn't just an atheist. Adrahil Mar 2017 #62

And a lot of very devout believers in magic sky wizards are reprehensible people, too. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #63

See below.... Thanks! Adrahil Mar 2017 #88

I second Warren, what is an anti-theist? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #75

It is what you think it is.... Adrahil Mar 2017 #87

In general religion is anti-atheist Lordquinton Mar 2017 #94

I'm pretty sure that believers in Ayn Rand have no morality at all. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #83

You are ignoring the word "practicing." If that is how Ryan perceives himself, then he is a sinner WinkyDink Mar 2017 #143

The RCC forbids masturbation and the use of birth control. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #157

Unfortunately, the same way Christians can pretend that Trump is a God fearing man. wcast Mar 2017 #2

Jesus wasn't white. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #5

It is fun to tell Christians in my rural area that. wcast Mar 2017 #8

Different Book erpowers Mar 2017 #19

You must be fun at parties. WinkyDink Mar 2017 #146

A Long haired, dark-skinned liberal JDC Mar 2017 #12

A long haired, dark-skinned liberal who tacitly approved of slavery... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #65

ha JDC Mar 2017 #70

I do - without question. demosincebirth Mar 2017 #71

Make that "Socialist." WinkyDink Mar 2017 #147

Jesus wasn't anything. There's simply no reasonable evidence he is anything but myth. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #20

Moses did not exist. Prototypes of Jesus and Muhammad 'might' have existed Ruy Lopez Mar 2017 #25

I'm an amateur, of course... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #34

I'm not sure we'll ever know now Ruy Lopez Mar 2017 #165

It is certainly doubtful... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #166

Are you intimating that the very real historic figure of Mohammed might be fiction? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #148

There is growing evidence of large discrepancies in the 'story' of 'Muhammad' Ruy Lopez Mar 2017 #164

yes, along with his flying horse LOL snooper2 Mar 2017 #167

Not the point though, the believers think he did and yet the Ryan's of the world Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #55

Weren't there a fair number of itinerant preachers with small groups of followers Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #86

Yes! EXACTLY! Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #67

Nor was He Christian! WinkyDink Mar 2017 #119

I'm a foreign language teacher. lapucelle Mar 2017 #153

The idea that morality is synonymous with "God Fearing" is itself bullshit. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #46

He's a Cino. Christian in name only. n/t Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #3

No True Scotsmen running wild in this thread Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #47

I'm not sure what you mean. Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #85

No True Scotsman Fallacy: Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #93

I'm not sure this fallacy applies here. Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #121

At some point we need to acknowledge the on the ground reality, though. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #141

Being a GOP Congresscritter means ignoring cognitive dissonance for money. Orsino Mar 2017 #4

I think you mean "exploiting" not ignoring... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #35

Well, both... Orsino Mar 2017 #37

Meh. One can be religious and tolerant of other faiths at the same time. DetlefK Mar 2017 #6

postcard mail out date is March 15th tomorrow bdamomma Mar 2017 #7

I'll tell you about my selective Catholicism after I slough off this condom Kolesar Mar 2017 #9

Because even practicing Catholics are rarely religious extremists HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #10

Ryan requires a highly structured religion and rules to Ilsa Mar 2017 #11

As Ayn Rand would say --- vlyons Mar 2017 #13

Ayn Rand' work is oversimplified, poorly written garbage sharedvalues Mar 2017 #14

"There are two novels that can change Mendocino Mar 2017 #50

yup sharedvalues Mar 2017 #96

George Orwell said it concisely Vogon_Glory Mar 2017 #15

Hitler was Catholic . check out some past popes lunasun Mar 2017 #16

Born Catholic; practicing Occultist. WinkyDink Mar 2017 #120

That's his problem! atreides1 Mar 2017 #17

It's all about "religion of convenience." People don't really believe in their religion...they just nikibatts Mar 2017 #18

Except that I think that Tim Kaine actually practices his Catholicism. SharonAnn Mar 2017 #22

Tim Kaine is not a GOP politician... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #36

Indeed nycbos Mar 2017 #54

Because he is a hypocrite .. coco22 Mar 2017 #23

Yup. We need look no further for complex explanations. Squinch Mar 2017 #29

Fake Catholic for appearance only. democratisphere Mar 2017 #26

He'd better practice some more. 3catwoman3 Mar 2017 #27

You say that like athiests are bad and catholics are good Tom the Mechanic Mar 2017 #28

Agree on all lunasun Mar 2017 #32

He is a sociopath. GoCubsGo Mar 2017 #30

Maybe He is Not a Practicing Catholic erpowers Mar 2017 #31

Because he doesn't understand either the Catholic religion or Ayn Rand's work Johonny Mar 2017 #33

+1000 smirkymonkey Mar 2017 #104

Ayn Rand was not just an Atheist. Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #38

We should be taking pro-death Catholics to the same woodshed they take pro-choice Catholics to LaydeeBug Mar 2017 #39

If you've gotten over your acne, and still admire Ayn Rand, you're permanently puerile... NNadir Mar 2017 #40

+1 dalton99a Mar 2017 #44

Dorothy Parker on "Atlas Shrugged": hatrack Mar 2017 #123

Well, as a chronic insomniac, I can say that the book had a certain therapeutic... NNadir Mar 2017 #162

Well, as Alice Roosevelt asked when informed when Calvin Coolidge had died . . . hatrack Mar 2017 #163

Because Ryan worships wealth, not God or Jesus. no_hypocrisy Mar 2017 #42

Mammon. WinkyDink Mar 2017 #122

You don't actually take his religious protestations seriously, do you? MrScorpio Mar 2017 #48

Ayn Rand is exactly as indicative of the moral caliber of "all" Atheists Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #49

He may 'practice,' but I don't think he's got it down yet. elleng Mar 2017 #51

Paul Ryan is a practicing shit bag. And he practices a LOT! pangaia Mar 2017 #52

I wonder if he ever goes to confession? The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2017 #53

I really disagree the premise Progressive dog Mar 2017 #56

Yeah Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #73

Pope Francis said it is better to be an atheist than a bad Christian. still_one Mar 2017 #57

Yea, that was a huge insult to Atheists, actually. Lordquinton Mar 2017 #74

I took it differently, that a moral and ethical person who is an atheist, is better than a christian still_one Mar 2017 #76

I don't give him the benefit of the doubt Lordquinton Mar 2017 #79

He's as dumb as a brick, and lacks humanity to boot Dem2 Mar 2017 #58

Hi Democratic Underground straightarrow Mar 2017 #59

Wow! Well done! Rhiannon12866 Mar 2017 #99

Thanks straightarrow Mar 2017 #125

republicans piss on Bible teachings, embrace Mammon Achilleaze Mar 2017 #60

Because "practicing Catholics" and "avowed atheists" can have no common ground? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #64

Atheists are bad people, mmmmkay? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #69

Pretty much the impression I get. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #90

Did the seminal poster argue that atheists and theists can not be friends ? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #100

Yes, they did. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #105

Joe said he is a vegan. Why did he invite me to Mortons for dinner? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #106

Because he ejoys your company. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #107

That escalated quickly. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #108

I have a medical condition. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #109

" Admiration is not dependent upon a congruity of belief" ? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #110

I already gave you one example in the previous post. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #111

You said a socialist could lionize the founder of Austrian Economics because he admired his beard... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #112

Oh, for fuck's sake. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #113

"Oh, for ----'s sake. I'm talking about this: " DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #115

Maybe they do. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #116

If lapses in logic were gold you would be King Midas. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #117

Can't tell if you're serious... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #137

" If you feel especially compelled to reply, feel free to pretend I read it. " DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #138

How come when I use the bathroom a woman at a Toyota plant drops her impact gun? snooper2 Mar 2017 #168

No I think they are only saying for Lyan Ryan treestar Mar 2017 #130

"...let alone the vast difference between her moral system and the one Jesus promoted..." DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #131

That's a good one to throw at them treestar Mar 2017 #133

The early Christians were primitive communists. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #134

A man cannot serve two masters, for he will love one and hate Drahthaardogs Mar 2017 #66

Koch $$$ QED Mar 2017 #68

He Clearly Needs More Practice Verbose Matthias Mar 2017 #72

Paul Ryan is no christian. C_U_L8R Mar 2017 #77

He's practicing, all right . . . not actually doing anything Christ-like, just practicing hatrack Mar 2017 #78

I wish your title said something like this instead... manicraven Mar 2017 #80

The catholics need a boogeyman. yortsed snacilbuper Mar 2017 #95

And the Protestants, Jews, and Muslims don't? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #149

All Rand proves is that atheists can be assholes too . . . hatrack Mar 2017 #124

The social justice group NETWORK (aka Nuns on a Bus) lapucelle Mar 2017 #81

He worships money and power Bettie Mar 2017 #84

So what does that make him, then? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #114

A guy who believes in his own god Bettie Mar 2017 #135

So, he literally worships money? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #136

You've heard of Mammon? Or are you just being a literalist pedant? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #151

I'm not being pedantic. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #155

he's also a Practicing Plutocrat Stargleamer Mar 2017 #89

He has two sets of mental furniture milestogo Mar 2017 #91

If Ryan is a "practicing Catholic," he needs more practice... GReedDiamond Mar 2017 #97

The way I think Ayn Rand should have been "lionized" The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2017 #101

lol JHan Mar 2017 #103

Quietly. n/t Orsino Mar 2017 #126

Ayn Rand argued there was no such thing as other directed acts. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #127

No journalist willing to demand he reconcile two opposing philosophies... Orsino Mar 2017 #128

I once saw a great debate between a small c conservative and a libertarian on Firing Line. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #129

Who cares what she thought? Do people care anymore about what Madame Blavatsky thought? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #150

He's a sociopath DefenseLawyer Mar 2017 #139

He's only "practicing" being Catholic. Yavin4 Mar 2017 #159