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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

27. I'm a "reformed smoker" where "Espionage Eddy" Snowden is concerned.

Tue Mar 14, 2017, 09:04 AM

Mar 2017

I was a resolute supporter of Assange and Snowden up until 5 months ago. I realized last November that many leftists (me included) had been flim-flammed by the FSB. They leveraged our desire and ability to find fault with American institutions of authority, especially those in the Intelligence Community. That mindset made us incapable of critical thinking as both Assange and Snowden stroked our pre-existing biases.

Now Wikileaks has been definitively outed as a Russian disinfo operation, and the same thing is happening with Snowden. The FSB smokescreen is being pierced.

The bullet points at the top of the article below were what finally turned me around about Snowy the Spy. Plus the fact that he's still comfortable in Moscow - along with the fact that every time I lift another rock in this sordid affair, there's a Russian under it. I have no proof that Snowden went in dirty, but the Ecuadorean angle represents strong circumstantial evidence to me.

https://heatst.com/politics/assange-doc-suggests-russia-knew-in-advance-ed-snowden-would-spy-on-nsa/

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Malcome Nance to Edward Snowdon..... [View all] riversedge Mar 2017 OP

Did you see the John Oliver interview with Edward Snowden? nilesobek Mar 2017 #1

I bet Snowden helped Russian put Trump in power. Maraya1969 Mar 2017 #2

That seems unlikely. Even if he was coerced or was willing to help the effort, I'm still wondering JCanete Mar 2017 #11

This makes no logical sense, quid pro quo work exactly as described uponit7771 Mar 2017 #18

actually neither of us know what happened, except that our government was being fucking shady. I JCanete Mar 2017 #28

I aso am curious about the authoritarian streak on DU regarding this issue. delisen Mar 2017 #99

Please... FarPoint Mar 2017 #127

Our government was lying to us and potentially undermining our democracy, but you go ahead and JCanete Mar 2017 #128

Absolutely correct! FarPoint Mar 2017 #126

Since when does being witty and humorous have anything to do with being a traitor? pnwmom Mar 2017 #3

I dunno about that. But I would trust Sanders. nilesobek Mar 2017 #5

I am NOT calling for his "execution and incarceration." But since he isn't willing pnwmom Mar 2017 #8

we ....DO... know about "that" and so does Nance and it's why Snowden is a traitor uponit7771 Mar 2017 #19

Has anyone been killed or harmed as a result of his actions? nilesobek Mar 2017 #108

Yes America's democracy uponit7771 Mar 2017 #112

I sense that there may indeed have been a murder or two... FarPoint Mar 2017 #129

On the other hand, his being held as a Tin God to so many seems rather Lord Haw Haw-ian. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #114

AFAIK Sanders did not help other NSA whistleblowers delisen Mar 2017 #6

None of those cases was comparable. Nobody divulged info to Sen. Sanders, Warren, pnwmom Mar 2017 #9

What did you think Sanders or Warren would have done? delisen Mar 2017 #13

Given Snowden true wb status for unveiling new info on laws being broke uponit7771 Mar 2017 #20

How does a senator give an employee of the executive branch whistleblower delisen Mar 2017 #25

It's called the whistle blowers Protection act of 1988... msanthrope Mar 2017 #30

The question is would he have gotten it. It's hard to begrudge someone who doesn't trust the JCanete Mar 2017 #33

Why wouldn't he? If he had taken he time to consult with an actual lawyer, as msanthrope Mar 2017 #35

as others have pointed out here, whistleblowers have been screwed before. Your trust in government JCanete Mar 2017 #41

Sorry, but no one said patriotism was easy. One cannot draw a salary from the government msanthrope Mar 2017 #46

the law of the land, or the law that contradicts it? You know they are sworn to follow the law of JCanete Mar 2017 #51

They are sworn to follow the Constitution. There's a difference. Patriots stay and fight for the msanthrope Mar 2017 #54

As is your faith in Tin Gods. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #115

Actually one can flee "justice" and claim it through negotiation. delisen Mar 2017 #67

No....under the 6th amendment, you cannot both flee Justice and msanthrope Mar 2017 #71

Plea bargain. done all the time. delisen Mar 2017 #85

Yes....once you show up for your arraignment. Let us know when Snowden gets brave enough. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #92

Actually some fugitives make arrangements prior to showing up nt delisen Mar 2017 #133

Name a federal fugitive who made a pre-cusrodial please deal. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #134

Yes and why did it not protect the NSA whistleblowers before him who went to delisen Mar 2017 #66

Who went to Congress? nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #70

Drake, Binney and Wiebe:Ignored the Retaliated Against delisen Mar 2017 #88

Thank you for proving my point.....these brave men didn't run, and were vindicated. Snowden took msanthrope Mar 2017 #90

I did not prove your point. They were punished, shamed and delisen Mar 2017 #102

Patriotism isn't easy. You really think any of those men are happy with Snowden's collusion msanthrope Mar 2017 #105

Ellsberg has said in no unclear terms that Snowden is a Patriot and hero for what he did. JCanete Mar 2017 #121

Others Before Snowden went to Congress and suffered vicious retaliation. Snowden knew their fate. delisen Mar 2017 #23

That's because he is a criminal Renew Deal Mar 2017 #16

Was Daniel Ellsberg a criminal? delisen Mar 2017 #26

Yes....and would have been convicted but for the skullduggery of the FBI. msanthrope Mar 2017 #36

but we should be there to support them goddammit. They shouldn't have to pay that price if we JCanete Mar 2017 #42

Snowden didn't wait for support. He fled. That's what cowards do. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #45

um...no. Cowards don't throw their lives in turmoil and risk the consequence of prison. JCanete Mar 2017 #49

Nope.....Snowden is living on the Russian government's dime, evading charges. Coward. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #55

That is just such slight analysis. You could not apply it to any other circumstance and you know it. JCanete Mar 2017 #57

He gambled, and got a Russian payout. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #60

so now he gambled...before he was a coward. What is your game? nt JCanete Mar 2017 #62

He is a traitor who took Putin money. Like Michael Flynn. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #63

I just appreciate that you've given up the coward crap. That's progress. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #65

Oh no.....he's a coward. And a traitor. Same funding source as Flynn. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #74

so very cohesive! Not contradictory at all. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #75

Same funding source as Michael Flynn. Think about that. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #77

I will when I'm thinking about an entirely different claim that you are making. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #78

guilt by association delisen Mar 2017 #86

you can't prevent anything you are on a random message board snooper2 Mar 2017 #79

public sentiment matters. Attempting to erode support for whistleblowers in the court of public JCanete Mar 2017 #80

I too often pretend the opinions of others is merely an attempt to erode faith LanternWaste Mar 2017 #116

well that was convincing. I'm not calling Snowden a god, and I'm shy of calling him a hero JCanete Mar 2017 #118

Was Chelsea Manning? Renew Deal Mar 2017 #52

It's not just what you think of him but what he did. Renew Deal Mar 2017 #15

Wikileaks has a Russian based server address uponit7771 Mar 2017 #17

Do you deny.... Adrahil Mar 2017 #109

No denial that he exposed operations that were lied about in hearings under oath. nilesobek Mar 2017 #113

Just another treasonous bastard.. denbot Mar 2017 #4

I think Snowden was a whistleblower, not a traitor. delisen Mar 2017 #7

This is false... Snowden could've done similar to assange but went to Russia via China as a primary uponit7771 Mar 2017 #21

Facts? Snowden wanted asylum elsewhere-couldn't get it-US prevented. delisen Mar 2017 #24

He went to the Russian embassy in Hong Kong. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #38

That was a month after his arrival and his options had narrowed. delisen Mar 2017 #69

Had his 30th birthday party in the Russian embassy in Hong Kong. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #56

That was a month after he arrived and lived with refugees.nt delisen Mar 2017 #68

You also dramatically lack any objective evidence supporting your own premise. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #117

He also released info on... Adrahil Mar 2017 #110

I like nance, but that is fucking lame. Our government was betraying us. Frankly, that is traitorous JCanete Mar 2017 #10

We needed to know what was going on. delisen Mar 2017 #14

We already knew what was going on Obama told us one month before Snowden leak uponit7771 Mar 2017 #22

bull. That just isn not true. Clapper literally came out and told a load of horseshit. The JCanete Mar 2017 #29

The government hid its spying on the people from the people delisen Mar 2017 #89

Clapper lied Obama didn't, he did not... why do the Snowden detractors continue to act like uponit7771 Mar 2017 #100

Who said anything about Obama????? Are you confusing my post with someone else's? delisen Mar 2017 #103

Betraying us how? By getting FISA warrants? By being forbidden from spying within our borders? randome Mar 2017 #31

Collecting data on US citizens in contravention of the 4th amendment maybe...and lying about it. JCanete Mar 2017 #32

Um.....no. Care to cite your claim? nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #37

that's what you've got? come on. Phone records from our phone companies...almost all of Verizon's... JCanete Mar 2017 #40

You do realize that phone records do not require a warrant of any kind? Not for 40 years? nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #44

courts sign off on that information as they pertain to gaining evidence to build a specific case. JCanete Mar 2017 #47

Um, no. The police do not need a court or warrant to obtain your phone records. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #48

they have to show in retrospect that it was relevant to an ongoing investigation. They can't JCanete Mar 2017 #50

No, they don't. msanthrope Mar 2017 #53

It did not rule on the constitutionality. I'll go with the ACLU on that one. It ruled that it was JCanete Mar 2017 #64

That's the claim. Let us know how it turns out. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #73

jesus, how the fuck do you feel about it, and if you don't have a problem with it, why? nt JCanete Mar 2017 #76

I don't have a problem with Smith v. Maryland. msanthrope Mar 2017 #82

Phone records belong to the company that maintains them, not to individuals. randome Mar 2017 #59

The government could demand those phone records and expect compliance. Same with PRISM. what they JCanete Mar 2017 #61

No company can refuse to hand over your phone records. Been settled law for 40 years. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #72

You think that is bad, the government knows how many Snickers you bought last year snooper2 Mar 2017 #81

Is that intended to be snarky or just funny? Frankly, it is fucked up. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #83

I know it is fucked up, my Social Security statement had an amendment showing BIG MACS! snooper2 Mar 2017 #87

A PRISM 'demand' is done with a warrant. randome Mar 2017 #84

First, there is a problem there, but if you want to say the NSA did nothing new, fine, except that JCanete Mar 2017 #94

The 'evidence' that PRISM is not copying the Internet on a daily basis... randome Mar 2017 #96

but that much data would be pretty pointless....for a little longer anyway. having dragnetted JCanete Mar 2017 #98

Yeah, I've been following him for awhile Blue_Tires Mar 2017 #12

I'm a "reformed smoker" where "Espionage Eddy" Snowden is concerned. GliderGuider Mar 2017 #27

Snowden... Linc13 Mar 2017 #34

Snowden isn't staying alive for "free". He is owned. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #39

Perhaps we shouldn't have been breaking the law. I'm sure he's not happy where he is. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #43

I don't see the proof of that. He is in a bad position. He delisen Mar 2017 #97

No. Linc13 Mar 2017 #135

Snowden is KGB all the way! he does not want clemency his home. stonecutter357 Mar 2017 #58

Actually he wants to return-just doesn't want the Manning treatment. delisen Mar 2017 #91

Bull crap Snowden is a Russian tool just like Assange. stonecutter357 Mar 2017 #93

I don't see evidence of that. these are 2 distinct people delisen Mar 2017 #95

2 distinct people with aims that mirrors putin/trump. stonecutter357 Mar 2017 #104

I have not seen evidence that they have the same aim, not some assertions. delisen Mar 2017 #107

+1, I'm wondering who the fuck is arguing that this guy didn't proper fuck America good uponit7771 Mar 2017 #101

LCP's/ Low count posters. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #106

That's nonsense, and dismissive using reasons entirely devoid of content. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #119

I'm sure more Americans agree with Malcolm than agree with Snowden. Last poll I saw showed Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #111

Well that means something, given than the American public has never been wrong about shit before. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #120

It means exactly what Malcolm says it means: "Snowden's a traitor". Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #122

the American public's opinion absolutely does not mean that. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #123

Your circular argument style doesn't phase me. I am not the one. Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #124

I don't care. When Oliver's crew asked people on the street who Snowden was, the results were JCanete Mar 2017 #125

What's actually terrifying is that you're here defending a traitor. That scares me more than a poll. Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #130

I'm refusing to entertain that conversation with anybody who first whitewashes JCanete Mar 2017 #131

And his previous proclamation, under Bush/Cheney that "leakers should be shot in the balls"? Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #132