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Greybnk48

(10,674 posts)

38. Ayn Rand was not just an Atheist.

Reply to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Tue Mar 14, 2017, 09:51 AM

Mar 2017

An atheist, by definition, is someone who is without a religious belief system. Nothing more, nothing less. The word literally means "without religion."

Ayn Rand was an avid crusader against religion; and anti-religion zealot in her writing on the "Virtue of Selfishness."

She was a clumsy thinker who failed to distinguish between actual selfishness and enlightened self-interest, which is not selfishness. Clumsy thinkers like Ryan who read her, fail to make this distinction as well, and think, gleefully, that it's rational and moral to be a selfish prick. Even Hobbes rejected that thinking as self-defeating in Leviathan.

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Paul Ryan is a practicing Catholic. How can he lionize Ayn Rand, an avowed atheist? [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 OP

Because neither believers or unbelievers have a monopoly on morality? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #1

Maybe he attends Mass, but he doesn't actually "practice" the religion. SharonAnn Mar 2017 #21

No True Scotsman? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #45

He doesn't believe in or practice the teachings of the religion he claims to follow. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #82

So "real" Catholicism is incompatible with greed, then. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #92

More that it's incompatible with Randian Objectivism. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #98

One would think, although in reality- particularly US political reality for the past few decades- Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #102

Do you suggest the Vatican become as ISIS and the Taliban, and destroy these artistic treasures?? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #118

I'm suggesting the underlying premise here that believers are inherently more moral than unbelievers Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #140

Excuse me, but you are confusing "Catholicism" (as in, a religion with tenets) with its WinkyDink Mar 2017 #142

well, the vatican could take some of that scratch and feed the world's poor, couldn't they? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #144

Oh, brother. See my post above about the destruction of priceless art. Secondly, I MARRIED AN WinkyDink Mar 2017 #152

Agnosticism is great, as a general approach to everything. However, I suspect most "agnostics" Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #156

I don't think anyone is saying otherwise... whathehell Mar 2017 #158

Here's another point. Christianity didn't invent selflessness or "do unto others" Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #160

One can certainly claim to be Catholic, and claim to "practice" the rites... Orsino Mar 2017 #132

Ryan is not Catholic because whathehell Mar 2017 #161

Yeah. Orsino Mar 2017 #169

I think he will have some conflicts to work out though. BCBacon Mar 2017 #24

very good argument here supporting the idea that Jesus was an entirely fictional entity Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #43

So what's your point? Based on a historic figure or not (Yeah, yeah: Mithras; Dionysus; whoever), WinkyDink Mar 2017 #145

This is a discussion board, not a church. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #154

This came up a few years ago, and Ryan disavowed Ayn Rand and professed his Catholic Faith. TheBlackAdder Mar 2017 #41

Yep. During the 2012 Presidential campaign Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2017 #61

Rand wasn't just an atheist. Adrahil Mar 2017 #62

And a lot of very devout believers in magic sky wizards are reprehensible people, too. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #63

See below.... Thanks! Adrahil Mar 2017 #88

I second Warren, what is an anti-theist? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #75

It is what you think it is.... Adrahil Mar 2017 #87

In general religion is anti-atheist Lordquinton Mar 2017 #94

I'm pretty sure that believers in Ayn Rand have no morality at all. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #83

You are ignoring the word "practicing." If that is how Ryan perceives himself, then he is a sinner WinkyDink Mar 2017 #143

The RCC forbids masturbation and the use of birth control. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #157

Unfortunately, the same way Christians can pretend that Trump is a God fearing man. wcast Mar 2017 #2

Jesus wasn't white. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #5

It is fun to tell Christians in my rural area that. wcast Mar 2017 #8

Different Book erpowers Mar 2017 #19

You must be fun at parties. WinkyDink Mar 2017 #146

A Long haired, dark-skinned liberal JDC Mar 2017 #12

A long haired, dark-skinned liberal who tacitly approved of slavery... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #65

ha JDC Mar 2017 #70

I do - without question. demosincebirth Mar 2017 #71

Make that "Socialist." WinkyDink Mar 2017 #147

Jesus wasn't anything. There's simply no reasonable evidence he is anything but myth. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #20

Moses did not exist. Prototypes of Jesus and Muhammad 'might' have existed Ruy Lopez Mar 2017 #25

I'm an amateur, of course... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #34

I'm not sure we'll ever know now Ruy Lopez Mar 2017 #165

It is certainly doubtful... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #166

Are you intimating that the very real historic figure of Mohammed might be fiction? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #148

There is growing evidence of large discrepancies in the 'story' of 'Muhammad' Ruy Lopez Mar 2017 #164

yes, along with his flying horse LOL snooper2 Mar 2017 #167

Not the point though, the believers think he did and yet the Ryan's of the world Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #55

Weren't there a fair number of itinerant preachers with small groups of followers Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #86

Yes! EXACTLY! Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #67

Nor was He Christian! WinkyDink Mar 2017 #119

I'm a foreign language teacher. lapucelle Mar 2017 #153

The idea that morality is synonymous with "God Fearing" is itself bullshit. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #46

He's a Cino. Christian in name only. n/t Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #3

No True Scotsmen running wild in this thread Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #47

I'm not sure what you mean. Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #85

No True Scotsman Fallacy: Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #93

I'm not sure this fallacy applies here. Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #121

At some point we need to acknowledge the on the ground reality, though. Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #141

Being a GOP Congresscritter means ignoring cognitive dissonance for money. Orsino Mar 2017 #4

I think you mean "exploiting" not ignoring... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #35

Well, both... Orsino Mar 2017 #37

Meh. One can be religious and tolerant of other faiths at the same time. DetlefK Mar 2017 #6

postcard mail out date is March 15th tomorrow bdamomma Mar 2017 #7

I'll tell you about my selective Catholicism after I slough off this condom Kolesar Mar 2017 #9

Because even practicing Catholics are rarely religious extremists HoneyBadger Mar 2017 #10

Ryan requires a highly structured religion and rules to Ilsa Mar 2017 #11

As Ayn Rand would say --- vlyons Mar 2017 #13

Ayn Rand' work is oversimplified, poorly written garbage sharedvalues Mar 2017 #14

"There are two novels that can change Mendocino Mar 2017 #50

yup sharedvalues Mar 2017 #96

George Orwell said it concisely Vogon_Glory Mar 2017 #15

Hitler was Catholic . check out some past popes lunasun Mar 2017 #16

Born Catholic; practicing Occultist. WinkyDink Mar 2017 #120

That's his problem! atreides1 Mar 2017 #17

It's all about "religion of convenience." People don't really believe in their religion...they just nikibatts Mar 2017 #18

Except that I think that Tim Kaine actually practices his Catholicism. SharonAnn Mar 2017 #22

Tim Kaine is not a GOP politician... Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #36

Indeed nycbos Mar 2017 #54

Because he is a hypocrite .. coco22 Mar 2017 #23

Yup. We need look no further for complex explanations. Squinch Mar 2017 #29

Fake Catholic for appearance only. democratisphere Mar 2017 #26

He'd better practice some more. 3catwoman3 Mar 2017 #27

You say that like athiests are bad and catholics are good Tom the Mechanic Mar 2017 #28

Agree on all lunasun Mar 2017 #32

He is a sociopath. GoCubsGo Mar 2017 #30

Maybe He is Not a Practicing Catholic erpowers Mar 2017 #31

Because he doesn't understand either the Catholic religion or Ayn Rand's work Johonny Mar 2017 #33

+1000 smirkymonkey Mar 2017 #104

Ayn Rand was not just an Atheist. Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #38

We should be taking pro-death Catholics to the same woodshed they take pro-choice Catholics to LaydeeBug Mar 2017 #39

If you've gotten over your acne, and still admire Ayn Rand, you're permanently puerile... NNadir Mar 2017 #40

+1 dalton99a Mar 2017 #44

Dorothy Parker on "Atlas Shrugged": hatrack Mar 2017 #123

Well, as a chronic insomniac, I can say that the book had a certain therapeutic... NNadir Mar 2017 #162

Well, as Alice Roosevelt asked when informed when Calvin Coolidge had died . . . hatrack Mar 2017 #163

Because Ryan worships wealth, not God or Jesus. no_hypocrisy Mar 2017 #42

Mammon. WinkyDink Mar 2017 #122

You don't actually take his religious protestations seriously, do you? MrScorpio Mar 2017 #48

Ayn Rand is exactly as indicative of the moral caliber of "all" Atheists Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #49

He may 'practice,' but I don't think he's got it down yet. elleng Mar 2017 #51

Paul Ryan is a practicing shit bag. And he practices a LOT! pangaia Mar 2017 #52

I wonder if he ever goes to confession? The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2017 #53

I really disagree the premise Progressive dog Mar 2017 #56

Yeah Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #73

Pope Francis said it is better to be an atheist than a bad Christian. still_one Mar 2017 #57

Yea, that was a huge insult to Atheists, actually. Lordquinton Mar 2017 #74

I took it differently, that a moral and ethical person who is an atheist, is better than a christian still_one Mar 2017 #76

I don't give him the benefit of the doubt Lordquinton Mar 2017 #79

He's as dumb as a brick, and lacks humanity to boot Dem2 Mar 2017 #58

Hi Democratic Underground straightarrow Mar 2017 #59

Wow! Well done! Rhiannon12866 Mar 2017 #99

Thanks straightarrow Mar 2017 #125

republicans piss on Bible teachings, embrace Mammon Achilleaze Mar 2017 #60

Because "practicing Catholics" and "avowed atheists" can have no common ground? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #64

Atheists are bad people, mmmmkay? Warren DeMontague Mar 2017 #69

Pretty much the impression I get. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #90

Did the seminal poster argue that atheists and theists can not be friends ? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #100

Yes, they did. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #105

Joe said he is a vegan. Why did he invite me to Mortons for dinner? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #106

Because he ejoys your company. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #107

That escalated quickly. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #108

I have a medical condition. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #109

" Admiration is not dependent upon a congruity of belief" ? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #110

I already gave you one example in the previous post. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #111

You said a socialist could lionize the founder of Austrian Economics because he admired his beard... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #112

Oh, for fuck's sake. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #113

"Oh, for ----'s sake. I'm talking about this: " DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #115

Maybe they do. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #116

If lapses in logic were gold you would be King Midas. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #117

Can't tell if you're serious... Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #137

" If you feel especially compelled to reply, feel free to pretend I read it. " DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #138

How come when I use the bathroom a woman at a Toyota plant drops her impact gun? snooper2 Mar 2017 #168

No I think they are only saying for Lyan Ryan treestar Mar 2017 #130

"...let alone the vast difference between her moral system and the one Jesus promoted..." DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #131

That's a good one to throw at them treestar Mar 2017 #133

The early Christians were primitive communists. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #134

A man cannot serve two masters, for he will love one and hate Drahthaardogs Mar 2017 #66

Koch $$$ QED Mar 2017 #68

He Clearly Needs More Practice Verbose Matthias Mar 2017 #72

Paul Ryan is no christian. C_U_L8R Mar 2017 #77

He's practicing, all right . . . not actually doing anything Christ-like, just practicing hatrack Mar 2017 #78

I wish your title said something like this instead... manicraven Mar 2017 #80

The catholics need a boogeyman. yortsed snacilbuper Mar 2017 #95

And the Protestants, Jews, and Muslims don't? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #149

All Rand proves is that atheists can be assholes too . . . hatrack Mar 2017 #124

The social justice group NETWORK (aka Nuns on a Bus) lapucelle Mar 2017 #81

He worships money and power Bettie Mar 2017 #84

So what does that make him, then? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #114

A guy who believes in his own god Bettie Mar 2017 #135

So, he literally worships money? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #136

You've heard of Mammon? Or are you just being a literalist pedant? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #151

I'm not being pedantic. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #155

he's also a Practicing Plutocrat Stargleamer Mar 2017 #89

He has two sets of mental furniture milestogo Mar 2017 #91

If Ryan is a "practicing Catholic," he needs more practice... GReedDiamond Mar 2017 #97

The way I think Ayn Rand should have been "lionized" The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2017 #101

lol JHan Mar 2017 #103

Quietly. n/t Orsino Mar 2017 #126

Ayn Rand argued there was no such thing as other directed acts. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #127

No journalist willing to demand he reconcile two opposing philosophies... Orsino Mar 2017 #128

I once saw a great debate between a small c conservative and a libertarian on Firing Line. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2017 #129

Who cares what she thought? Do people care anymore about what Madame Blavatsky thought? WinkyDink Mar 2017 #150

He's a sociopath DefenseLawyer Mar 2017 #139

He's only "practicing" being Catholic. Yavin4 Mar 2017 #159