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msanthrope

(37,549 posts)

46. Sorry, but no one said patriotism was easy. One cannot draw a salary from the government

Reply to JCanete (Reply #41)

Tue Mar 14, 2017, 10:24 AM

Mar 2017

and then complain when they are expected to follow the law.

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Malcome Nance to Edward Snowdon..... [View all] riversedge Mar 2017 OP

Did you see the John Oliver interview with Edward Snowden? nilesobek Mar 2017 #1

I bet Snowden helped Russian put Trump in power. Maraya1969 Mar 2017 #2

That seems unlikely. Even if he was coerced or was willing to help the effort, I'm still wondering JCanete Mar 2017 #11

This makes no logical sense, quid pro quo work exactly as described uponit7771 Mar 2017 #18

actually neither of us know what happened, except that our government was being fucking shady. I JCanete Mar 2017 #28

I aso am curious about the authoritarian streak on DU regarding this issue. delisen Mar 2017 #99

Please... FarPoint Mar 2017 #127

Our government was lying to us and potentially undermining our democracy, but you go ahead and JCanete Mar 2017 #128

Absolutely correct! FarPoint Mar 2017 #126

Since when does being witty and humorous have anything to do with being a traitor? pnwmom Mar 2017 #3

I dunno about that. But I would trust Sanders. nilesobek Mar 2017 #5

I am NOT calling for his "execution and incarceration." But since he isn't willing pnwmom Mar 2017 #8

we ....DO... know about "that" and so does Nance and it's why Snowden is a traitor uponit7771 Mar 2017 #19

Has anyone been killed or harmed as a result of his actions? nilesobek Mar 2017 #108

Yes America's democracy uponit7771 Mar 2017 #112

I sense that there may indeed have been a murder or two... FarPoint Mar 2017 #129

On the other hand, his being held as a Tin God to so many seems rather Lord Haw Haw-ian. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #114

AFAIK Sanders did not help other NSA whistleblowers delisen Mar 2017 #6

None of those cases was comparable. Nobody divulged info to Sen. Sanders, Warren, pnwmom Mar 2017 #9

What did you think Sanders or Warren would have done? delisen Mar 2017 #13

Given Snowden true wb status for unveiling new info on laws being broke uponit7771 Mar 2017 #20

How does a senator give an employee of the executive branch whistleblower delisen Mar 2017 #25

It's called the whistle blowers Protection act of 1988... msanthrope Mar 2017 #30

The question is would he have gotten it. It's hard to begrudge someone who doesn't trust the JCanete Mar 2017 #33

Why wouldn't he? If he had taken he time to consult with an actual lawyer, as msanthrope Mar 2017 #35

as others have pointed out here, whistleblowers have been screwed before. Your trust in government JCanete Mar 2017 #41

Sorry, but no one said patriotism was easy. One cannot draw a salary from the government msanthrope Mar 2017 #46

the law of the land, or the law that contradicts it? You know they are sworn to follow the law of JCanete Mar 2017 #51

They are sworn to follow the Constitution. There's a difference. Patriots stay and fight for the msanthrope Mar 2017 #54

As is your faith in Tin Gods. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #115

Actually one can flee "justice" and claim it through negotiation. delisen Mar 2017 #67

No....under the 6th amendment, you cannot both flee Justice and msanthrope Mar 2017 #71

Plea bargain. done all the time. delisen Mar 2017 #85

Yes....once you show up for your arraignment. Let us know when Snowden gets brave enough. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #92

Actually some fugitives make arrangements prior to showing up nt delisen Mar 2017 #133

Name a federal fugitive who made a pre-cusrodial please deal. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #134

Yes and why did it not protect the NSA whistleblowers before him who went to delisen Mar 2017 #66

Who went to Congress? nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #70

Drake, Binney and Wiebe:Ignored the Retaliated Against delisen Mar 2017 #88

Thank you for proving my point.....these brave men didn't run, and were vindicated. Snowden took msanthrope Mar 2017 #90

I did not prove your point. They were punished, shamed and delisen Mar 2017 #102

Patriotism isn't easy. You really think any of those men are happy with Snowden's collusion msanthrope Mar 2017 #105

Ellsberg has said in no unclear terms that Snowden is a Patriot and hero for what he did. JCanete Mar 2017 #121

Others Before Snowden went to Congress and suffered vicious retaliation. Snowden knew their fate. delisen Mar 2017 #23

That's because he is a criminal Renew Deal Mar 2017 #16

Was Daniel Ellsberg a criminal? delisen Mar 2017 #26

Yes....and would have been convicted but for the skullduggery of the FBI. msanthrope Mar 2017 #36

but we should be there to support them goddammit. They shouldn't have to pay that price if we JCanete Mar 2017 #42

Snowden didn't wait for support. He fled. That's what cowards do. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #45

um...no. Cowards don't throw their lives in turmoil and risk the consequence of prison. JCanete Mar 2017 #49

Nope.....Snowden is living on the Russian government's dime, evading charges. Coward. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #55

That is just such slight analysis. You could not apply it to any other circumstance and you know it. JCanete Mar 2017 #57

He gambled, and got a Russian payout. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #60

so now he gambled...before he was a coward. What is your game? nt JCanete Mar 2017 #62

He is a traitor who took Putin money. Like Michael Flynn. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #63

I just appreciate that you've given up the coward crap. That's progress. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #65

Oh no.....he's a coward. And a traitor. Same funding source as Flynn. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #74

so very cohesive! Not contradictory at all. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #75

Same funding source as Michael Flynn. Think about that. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #77

I will when I'm thinking about an entirely different claim that you are making. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #78

guilt by association delisen Mar 2017 #86

you can't prevent anything you are on a random message board snooper2 Mar 2017 #79

public sentiment matters. Attempting to erode support for whistleblowers in the court of public JCanete Mar 2017 #80

I too often pretend the opinions of others is merely an attempt to erode faith LanternWaste Mar 2017 #116

well that was convincing. I'm not calling Snowden a god, and I'm shy of calling him a hero JCanete Mar 2017 #118

Was Chelsea Manning? Renew Deal Mar 2017 #52

It's not just what you think of him but what he did. Renew Deal Mar 2017 #15

Wikileaks has a Russian based server address uponit7771 Mar 2017 #17

Do you deny.... Adrahil Mar 2017 #109

No denial that he exposed operations that were lied about in hearings under oath. nilesobek Mar 2017 #113

Just another treasonous bastard.. denbot Mar 2017 #4

I think Snowden was a whistleblower, not a traitor. delisen Mar 2017 #7

This is false... Snowden could've done similar to assange but went to Russia via China as a primary uponit7771 Mar 2017 #21

Facts? Snowden wanted asylum elsewhere-couldn't get it-US prevented. delisen Mar 2017 #24

He went to the Russian embassy in Hong Kong. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #38

That was a month after his arrival and his options had narrowed. delisen Mar 2017 #69

Had his 30th birthday party in the Russian embassy in Hong Kong. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #56

That was a month after he arrived and lived with refugees.nt delisen Mar 2017 #68

You also dramatically lack any objective evidence supporting your own premise. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #117

He also released info on... Adrahil Mar 2017 #110

I like nance, but that is fucking lame. Our government was betraying us. Frankly, that is traitorous JCanete Mar 2017 #10

We needed to know what was going on. delisen Mar 2017 #14

We already knew what was going on Obama told us one month before Snowden leak uponit7771 Mar 2017 #22

bull. That just isn not true. Clapper literally came out and told a load of horseshit. The JCanete Mar 2017 #29

The government hid its spying on the people from the people delisen Mar 2017 #89

Clapper lied Obama didn't, he did not... why do the Snowden detractors continue to act like uponit7771 Mar 2017 #100

Who said anything about Obama????? Are you confusing my post with someone else's? delisen Mar 2017 #103

Betraying us how? By getting FISA warrants? By being forbidden from spying within our borders? randome Mar 2017 #31

Collecting data on US citizens in contravention of the 4th amendment maybe...and lying about it. JCanete Mar 2017 #32

Um.....no. Care to cite your claim? nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #37

that's what you've got? come on. Phone records from our phone companies...almost all of Verizon's... JCanete Mar 2017 #40

You do realize that phone records do not require a warrant of any kind? Not for 40 years? nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #44

courts sign off on that information as they pertain to gaining evidence to build a specific case. JCanete Mar 2017 #47

Um, no. The police do not need a court or warrant to obtain your phone records. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #48

they have to show in retrospect that it was relevant to an ongoing investigation. They can't JCanete Mar 2017 #50

No, they don't. msanthrope Mar 2017 #53

It did not rule on the constitutionality. I'll go with the ACLU on that one. It ruled that it was JCanete Mar 2017 #64

That's the claim. Let us know how it turns out. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #73

jesus, how the fuck do you feel about it, and if you don't have a problem with it, why? nt JCanete Mar 2017 #76

I don't have a problem with Smith v. Maryland. msanthrope Mar 2017 #82

Phone records belong to the company that maintains them, not to individuals. randome Mar 2017 #59

The government could demand those phone records and expect compliance. Same with PRISM. what they JCanete Mar 2017 #61

No company can refuse to hand over your phone records. Been settled law for 40 years. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #72

You think that is bad, the government knows how many Snickers you bought last year snooper2 Mar 2017 #81

Is that intended to be snarky or just funny? Frankly, it is fucked up. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #83

I know it is fucked up, my Social Security statement had an amendment showing BIG MACS! snooper2 Mar 2017 #87

A PRISM 'demand' is done with a warrant. randome Mar 2017 #84

First, there is a problem there, but if you want to say the NSA did nothing new, fine, except that JCanete Mar 2017 #94

The 'evidence' that PRISM is not copying the Internet on a daily basis... randome Mar 2017 #96

but that much data would be pretty pointless....for a little longer anyway. having dragnetted JCanete Mar 2017 #98

Yeah, I've been following him for awhile Blue_Tires Mar 2017 #12

I'm a "reformed smoker" where "Espionage Eddy" Snowden is concerned. GliderGuider Mar 2017 #27

Snowden... Linc13 Mar 2017 #34

Snowden isn't staying alive for "free". He is owned. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #39

Perhaps we shouldn't have been breaking the law. I'm sure he's not happy where he is. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #43

I don't see the proof of that. He is in a bad position. He delisen Mar 2017 #97

No. Linc13 Mar 2017 #135

Snowden is KGB all the way! he does not want clemency his home. stonecutter357 Mar 2017 #58

Actually he wants to return-just doesn't want the Manning treatment. delisen Mar 2017 #91

Bull crap Snowden is a Russian tool just like Assange. stonecutter357 Mar 2017 #93

I don't see evidence of that. these are 2 distinct people delisen Mar 2017 #95

2 distinct people with aims that mirrors putin/trump. stonecutter357 Mar 2017 #104

I have not seen evidence that they have the same aim, not some assertions. delisen Mar 2017 #107

+1, I'm wondering who the fuck is arguing that this guy didn't proper fuck America good uponit7771 Mar 2017 #101

LCP's/ Low count posters. KittyWampus Mar 2017 #106

That's nonsense, and dismissive using reasons entirely devoid of content. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #119

I'm sure more Americans agree with Malcolm than agree with Snowden. Last poll I saw showed Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #111

Well that means something, given than the American public has never been wrong about shit before. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #120

It means exactly what Malcolm says it means: "Snowden's a traitor". Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #122

the American public's opinion absolutely does not mean that. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #123

Your circular argument style doesn't phase me. I am not the one. Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #124

I don't care. When Oliver's crew asked people on the street who Snowden was, the results were JCanete Mar 2017 #125

What's actually terrifying is that you're here defending a traitor. That scares me more than a poll. Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #130

I'm refusing to entertain that conversation with anybody who first whitewashes JCanete Mar 2017 #131

And his previous proclamation, under Bush/Cheney that "leakers should be shot in the balls"? Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #132