General Discussion

eridani

(51,907 posts)

86. Apparently it isn't possible to cheer for a tactical victory without

Fri Jun 29, 2012, 06:19 PM

Jun 2012

--also cheering for the vicious amoral value system on which that victory rests. I mean the value system that says people with money are Real People, and those without are disposable human garbage. The value system that divides us into Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze people, and a not specified Lead or Dirt category for people over 50 who will have to pay three times as much for underinsurance. The value system that says if you are 25 and your parents have insurance that you deserve insurance too, but if your parents don't (or can't afford to add you) then you don't.

Granted, there is a substantial opposition consisting of people who are basically sociopathic thugs, and thugs get to vote too. Maybe given that fact ACA is the best that we can do at the moment. But why implicity endorse their thuggish values?

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Let's see......a couple of anonymous DU'ers---- or............... [View all] trumad Jun 2012 OP

Love Stacey Canfield's message RockaFowler Jun 2012 #1

Who is she? Quantess Jun 2012 #44

I believe it's Natoma Canfield and reporter Stacey Frey Kennah Jun 2012 #110

The anonymous DU'ers see this victory as a stumbling block to The Glorius Revolution. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #2

1917 Russia not happening treestar Jun 2012 #3

Millions dead. No one I knew, so it's all good. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #11

Now THIS is offensive. maddiemom Jun 2012 #35

I think it is an honest assessment of a mindset found sometimes on DU. Skidmore Jun 2012 #54

I agree--it's all MY way or the highway. No nuance, no understanding, no maturity. MADem Jun 2012 #79

Theyd say the same about you.. iamthebandfanman Jun 2012 #111

You're truly making no sense... trumad Jun 2012 #149

perfectly stated ! Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2012 #140

Yep, exactly. TheWraith Jun 2012 #62

Einstein advocated for the end of capitalism and was a communist. white_wolf Jun 2012 #76

He was also a pacifist that abhorred violence. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #90

And anyone who advocates for continuation of the status quo Doctor_J Jun 2012 #153

"Just because you're blazingly smart does not mean you have political acumen" Capn Sunshine Jul 2012 #229

this is the most hateful thing seen here yet CleanLucre Jun 2012 #64

It's an ironic statement. That's obvious if you read the comment contextually. nt MADem Jun 2012 #80

not beginning with #2 and your #79 CleanLucre Jun 2012 #83

I don't agree. MADem Jun 2012 #104

In a week?...nt SidDithers Jun 2012 #180

That is the craziest thing I ever saw on DU. Where on earth do you get that stuff from? robinlynne Jun 2012 #65

Ikonoklast got that argument from the Heritage Foundation and the right wing think tanks Zalatix Jun 2012 #116

The right wing think tanks are against health care for all. joshcryer Jun 2012 #123

The Heritage Foundation actually was the first to propose the Individual Mandate. Zalatix Jun 2012 #125

Yes, I'm well aware of this bullshit spin. joshcryer Jun 2012 #126

And you respond with bullshit spin. Zalatix Jun 2012 #128

They're extremely different. joshcryer Jun 2012 #129

"Mandates are necessary. Single Payer will require mandates, etc." Zalatix Jun 2012 #130

Because they both are going to cost you. joshcryer Jun 2012 #131

"Because they both are going to cost you"? If you think this is anyone's beef with the mandate Zalatix Jun 2012 #134

I don't think it, I know it. You even make the argument. joshcryer Jun 2012 #142

The problem here is that you "know" so many things that are simply not true. Zalatix Jun 2012 #144

Yes, they take a disproportionate piece of the pie. joshcryer Jun 2012 #146

Apologies for the disparaging remark. Zalatix Jun 2012 #147

You remove the mandate you take away the biggest pressure to improve it. joshcryer Jun 2012 #148

Well, I am not sure how credible this following claim is, but I keep hearing it. Zalatix Jun 2012 #150

It's all about choice perception. joshcryer Jun 2012 #185

But then 30 corporations called Obama's bluff and got him to back down. Zalatix Jun 2012 #189

So no one will argue that this is Romneycare? DirkGently Jun 2012 #174

RomneyCare is not the same as HeritageFoundationCare. joshcryer Jun 2012 #186

+1,000! Zalatix Jun 2012 #190

Act for the relief of sick and disabled seamen, 1789 Major Nikon Jun 2012 #136

Yes, you had to be an employer of sailors in that case. Zalatix Jun 2012 #137

The mandate was for the sailors themselves Major Nikon Jun 2012 #138

Yes, and you could avoid it by not being a sailor. How will you avoid this? Zalatix Jun 2012 #139

The ACA mandate doesn't pertain to "being alive" Major Nikon Jun 2012 #141

I think you misunderstand. The reason many of us are against the mandate to purchase from robinlynne Jun 2012 #165

To be clear, I hate a mandate without a public option. joshcryer Jun 2012 #187

there NEEDS to be! We really need socialized medicine. period. robinlynne Jun 2012 #191

Ironically, they appear to be bourgeoisie themselves. joshcryer Jun 2012 #121

treestar Diclotican Jun 2012 #84

That is an absolute bullshit lie and you know it. Zalatix Jun 2012 #115

You haven't been on DU nearly as long as I have treestar Jun 2012 #151

Sure you have. Zalatix Jun 2012 #152

Not specifically right now treestar Jun 2012 #154

Oh I see what your problem is. Zalatix Jun 2012 #155

Riots in Europe caused their safety nets to develop? treestar Jun 2012 #156

In France Zalatix Jun 2012 #164

I heard about the riots in England treestar Jun 2012 #167

Hell yeah I condone it. The French handled their business. Nobody got the guillotine. Zalatix Jun 2012 #171

You condone kidnapping and cops getting burned. At least we've established that. treestar Jul 2012 #198

Peaceful protesters get shot and beaten and pepper sprayed. Enjoy. Zalatix Jul 2012 #210

Perhaps that is more extreme treestar Jul 2012 #212

“Those who make peaceful protest impossible make violent protest inevitable" Zalatix Jul 2012 #213

Kidnapping is a CRIME treestar Jul 2012 #214

"Neither the US nor France prohibits peaceful protest" BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Zalatix Jul 2012 #217

All the time? treestar Jul 2012 #218

From all the knee slapper level errors you've posted it's apparent you haven't seen Occupy. Zalatix Jul 2012 #219

What are you raving on about? Are you unaware that the Occupy people treestar Jul 2012 #222

Wow, so much ignorance in your post. You really don't get it, do you? Zalatix Jul 2012 #226

I am sorry u don't believe treestar, however I have seen the same post hes talking about NavyDavy Jul 2012 #201

Why is it always "I can't point them out" or "I can't even find any now"? but yet Zalatix Jul 2012 #211

I found some and listed them in this post - 205 treestar Jul 2012 #215

Exactly Davy, it is a general mindset on DU treestar Jul 2012 #216

who are they? why are you talking about a they that does not exist? robinlynne Jun 2012 #192

Throughout the years there have been such posts treestar Jul 2012 #197

I agree treestar some will not believe you even if u post the post that ur referring to, NavyDavy Jul 2012 #202

I can't even find any now, because it is such a general impression treestar Jul 2012 #205

Who died and made you Joe McCarthy? Comrade Grumpy Jun 2012 #14

Stop hyperventilating. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #17

The ACA is an advance, but doesn't go nearly far enough. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2012 #25

Says a lot about people who side with Scalia over Ginsburg too Major Nikon Jun 2012 #36

The problem is, by the nature liberalhistorian Jun 2012 #45

Correct. See: Canada, history of health care. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #55

Yes, because the history of Canada mirrors the history of the US. progressoid Jun 2012 #58

Well it does in many ways treestar Jun 2012 #70

it may be DonCoquixote Jun 2012 #114

No one thought single payer rudycantfail Jun 2012 #175

true. robinlynne Jun 2012 #193

Slap that baby for not taking a big enough first step! Scootaloo Jun 2012 #46

The problem is private insurance, not incremental steps eridani Jul 2012 #228

Social Security is far different from when it was first passed. LiberalFighter Jun 2012 #53

Since when was Social Security ever a mandate to purchase retirement plans eridani Jun 2012 #85

I did not reply on the issue of mandates LiberalFighter Jun 2012 #87

I replied on the differing basic foundations of the two problems eridani Jul 2012 #227

right on! robinlynne Jun 2012 #194

It is a great victory treestar Jun 2012 #67

That's just BS - TBF Jun 2012 #56

Does the CPUSA endorse the ACA? treestar Jun 2012 #71

Here - TBF Jun 2012 #74

I think our official position is to fight for eventual Single Payer Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #102

The "Leftists want to get rid of the ACA" meme is mostly myth. Zalatix Jun 2012 #119

You are imagining things, to begin with. I have never seen a poster who wants choas, and does not ca robinlynne Jun 2012 #69

Yes. There's a lot dishonest spinning here. DirkGently Jun 2012 #172

Can't get much more "socialist" than the only one in the Senate!!! MADem Jun 2012 #82

Who died and made you Joe McCarthy? Zalatix Jun 2012 #117

One of the most voracious anti-ACA posters even admitted as much. joshcryer Jun 2012 #122

No kidding, Comrade. tblue Jun 2012 #30

Thank-you. weird stuff spilling out there. robinlynne Jun 2012 #66

Its not "wierd stuff". bvar22 Jun 2012 #88

ok. lol robinlynne Jun 2012 #93

+1 limpyhobbler Jun 2012 #68

half baked is better than no baked, IMHO.....and you have to start somewhere.....sorry ur NavyDavy Jul 2012 #203

and the anonymous alerter failed to get your post hidden snooper2 Jun 2012 #34

I was voting on Treestar's quote above, by mistake. maddiemom Jun 2012 #37

I have a fan club, or so it would seem. Ikonoklast Jun 2012 #41

Throw a rock into a pack of dogs,the one that yelps is the one you hit. Swede Jun 2012 #49

And when all the dogs get pissed off and bite you for offending one of their pack, then what? Zalatix Jun 2012 #118

What a terrible thing to say or think! robinlynne Jun 2012 #195

Throw a rock into a pack of dogs and I hope your ass is arrested for cruelty. robinlynne Jun 2012 #196

Reverend Al Sharpton made the saying famous. Swede Jul 2012 #224

disgusting. And I do like the reverend very much. I have cared for abused dogs. robinlynne Jul 2012 #230

u r wrong heaven05 Jun 2012 #50

Wrong thread? bornskeptic Jun 2012 #96

Then again.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #63

The Tea Party doesn't have a monopoly on Teh Stoopid... chervilant Jun 2012 #158

It's not that people are stupid Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #182

hmm... chervilant Jun 2012 #184

Oh come on Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #188

SOME of the people chervilant Jul 2012 #199

I don't buy that. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #204

I'm not surprised chervilant Jul 2012 #206

Luckily I live in California. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #207

Unfortunately, chervilant Jul 2012 #208

Funny, isn't it how in the South you can disagree about everything Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #209

This should be up for DUzy iamthebandfanman Jun 2012 #112

That's a fair enough observation. joshcryer Jun 2012 #120

RW radicals want the government to fail to bring in their glorious new order. freshwest Jun 2012 #135

Wow! Really? nt Zorra Jun 2012 #179

k&r... spanone Jun 2012 #4

after listening to thom hartmann yesterday i'm changing my position nashville_brook Jun 2012 #5

Thom can always be counted on for providing a much-needed dose of reason. GoCubsGo Jun 2012 #24

plus 1 chknltl Jun 2012 #51

I have always said, RoccoR5955 Jun 2012 #39

agreed - and, I'd add, the meme that those critical of this approach were pining for Single Payer nashville_brook Jun 2012 #170

I'm laughing my head off at ... frazzled Jun 2012 #143

so, hey Frazzled -- I'm laughing my head off at your ludicrous (wrong, of course) nashville_brook Jun 2012 #168

"Business" & corporatist ownership of healthcare are a wee bit different DirkGently Jun 2012 #169

The anonymous DU'ers... TZ Jun 2012 #6

And you won't.. trumad Jun 2012 #7

It was. WilliamPitt Jun 2012 #8

Yep---you are directly affected. trumad Jun 2012 #9

heck yes its scary TZ Jun 2012 #10

A friend is a cancer survivor. xmas74 Jun 2012 #61

There was a time when this would have helped me tremendously loyalsister Jun 2012 #73

Don't forget.. Looking for political purity nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #12

And have good insurance to begin with. RiffRandell Jun 2012 #18

Presente. Oh, and I'm not anonymous, either. EFerrari Jun 2012 #40

I am a Type 2 diabetic. I keep very close control. I have a job that provides good insurance. Raster Jun 2012 #98

I love you trumad. n/t cali Jun 2012 #13

DU rec...nt SidDithers Jun 2012 #15

This is a BFD!! Greybnk48 Jun 2012 #16

ZING! These people put there names and reputations on the line, unlike anonymous internet posters. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #19

Did you tell us your name? tblue Jun 2012 #31

Me? Just a hard-working blue collar Union member who doesn't get enough airtime. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #59

k & r HappyMe Jun 2012 #20

K&R! nt Chorophyll Jun 2012 #21

Are they agaist the ACA because it is good for business? Rain Mcloud Jun 2012 #22

They all pretty much say this is a first step in the right direction.. annabanana Jun 2012 #23

Thanks. Give ACA a chance. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #26

Why have a thread denouncing DUers? Just celebrate and stop putting others down. tblue Jun 2012 #27

indeed ibegurpard Jun 2012 #91

+100. nt Mojorabbit Jun 2012 #103

It is as Moore says, a mandate for action.... Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #28

Well Done! bvar22 Jun 2012 #89

We agree, mirabile dictu! MineralMan Jun 2012 #29

I didn't like the way the law turned out, but I was still glad it was upheld yurbud Jun 2012 #32

You said it best... MrMickeysMom Jun 2012 #105

Kudos... a la izquierda Jun 2012 #33

K&R Raffi Ella Jun 2012 #38

Excellent OP. nt msanthrope Jun 2012 #42

Thx! Great post. RegieRocker Jun 2012 #43

Great company to keep with!! Thanks, trumad. freshwest Jun 2012 #47

Hear Hear, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2012 #48

Ding ding we have a winner malaise Jun 2012 #52

So long as we dont have to agree with MM & DK on anything else. Dr Fate Jun 2012 #57

Some of those quotes are taken slightly out of context. limpyhobbler Jun 2012 #60

But you do notice,,,, trumad Jun 2012 #160

From Sanders' quote, rudycantfail Jun 2012 #177

Trumad -- how optimistic of you! This deserves a big ol' K&R! pacalo Jun 2012 #72

LOL...this will really annoy the ones who want to be pissed about good news! Logical Jun 2012 #75

K&R, trumad Auggie Jun 2012 #77

Trumad, well done! I feel the very same way! nt MADem Jun 2012 #78

Senator Sanders said that from day 1 of the PP & ACA, TTE, it's not what he had wanted but it IS patrice Jun 2012 #81

Apparently it isn't possible to cheer for a tactical victory without eridani Jun 2012 #86

+1 CleanLucre Jun 2012 #95

That amoral values system you speak of, wasn't created by the Affordable care act Hippo_Tron Jun 2012 #106

Yes, that's very true. ACA is probably the best we can get as long as eridani Jun 2012 #107

I understand, but I'm mostly a utiltarian when it comes to governing philosophy Hippo_Tron Jun 2012 #109

+1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000. Please, please consider turning coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #132

yes, the McCarthyites are out en masse in this thread Doctor_J Jun 2012 #162

I come to DU to hear anonymous people Enrique Jun 2012 #92

I agree with those famous people in this case Enrique Jun 2012 #94

The inventor of the wheel is an anonymous person. athenasatanjesus Jun 2012 #97

heh, heh.... fascisthunter Jun 2012 #99

Nice post Trumad! CreekDog Jun 2012 #100

Well! Hrmph! Michael Moore, Krugman, Sanders and Kucinich are all just DLC/Blue Dog sellouts! bluestateguy Jun 2012 #101

I agree. nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #108

maybe if ya tell them to 'go fuck themselves' iamthebandfanman Jun 2012 #113

K&R SunSeeker Jun 2012 #124

Get this to the greatest page!! DonCoquixote Jun 2012 #127

A reasonble argument in the OP, JoeyT Jun 2012 #133

THANK YOU for starting this thread! PBass Jun 2012 #145

Thanks trumad. Baitball Blogger Jun 2012 #157

You might want to add this malaise Jun 2012 #159

This message was self-deleted by its author Doctor_J Jun 2012 #161

YES!! BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2012 #163

Of course, every single one of those people know we need universal healthcare DirkGently Jun 2012 #166

I wouldn't call pre-sexisting conditions a modest change. trumad Jun 2012 #173

Would you call it the solution? DirkGently Jun 2012 #176

I don't know what "pre-sextisting conditions" you have, but mine require modesty. nashville_brook Jun 2012 #178

Im like what are you talking about. trumad Jun 2012 #181

I don't know how it will play out, I'm not sure anyone does Autumn Jun 2012 #183

K & R Scurrilous Jul 2012 #200

Let's see... a DU poster who admits he's here merely to stir shit, or anything else in the world.... LanternWaste Jul 2012 #220

It's 5pm somewhere. trumad Jul 2012 #221

No, see, those people only have credibility when they're criticizing Obama. Arkana Jul 2012 #223

Boy, did this thread stir up a hornets nest NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #225