General Discussion

RainDog

(28,784 posts)

88. I beg to differ

Sat Jun 30, 2012, 03:43 AM

Jun 2012

it is very different.

my ex is from a European country and I still have contact with ex-in-laws there and the right wing movements in Northern European nations have no where near the ability to influence - or even the desire to change much of the social democratic legislation that is part of the fabric of life there.

I can't speak for what's going in Southern Europe - but I know people in about 4 different countries in Northern Europe who are politically active - and there's no comparison to what goes on here with working people supporting policies against their best interests.

It's not just unions - tho, yes, they do get people out. Students come out in support of unions and so do others who have no association with unions.

Voting is mandatory.

Television news is not a constant stream of right wing bullshit.

Those things make a big difference.

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Conservative Southern Values Revived: How a Brutal Strain of American Aristocrats Have Come to Rule [View all] xchrom Jun 2012 OP

"They hate us for our freedoms" was a bush message that spoke to the evangelicals Kolesar Jun 2012 #1

I don't think they were off-topic at all nxylas Jun 2012 #5

Jeb Stuart never saw a Predator drone...eom Kolesar Jul 2012 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author nxylas Jul 2012 #125

Bush family are carpetbaggers RobertEarl Jun 2012 #29

The Bushes are carpetbaggers in the original post-Civil War era sense Ken Burch Jun 2012 #66

the bushes have some southerners in their family tree. HiPointDem Jul 2012 #108

This article is not "southern bashing " eom Kolesar Jul 2012 #120

You miss the point RainDog Jul 2012 #123

oh yeah, i'm sure bush senior was horrified, absolutely horrified. fucking incubator babies anyone? HiPointDem Jun 2012 #69

"They hate us for our freedoms" was the truest example of kestrel91316 Jul 2012 #105

+1 bemildred Jun 2012 #2

An excellent article. Do you "wish you were in Dixie"? Guess what? annabanana Jun 2012 #3

A lot of states . . . ananda Jun 2012 #21

K & R . . . an important passage from this article: HughBeaumont Jun 2012 #4

That paragraph NAILS it Tsiyu Jun 2012 #16

They should be labeled for what they are: American Terrorists! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #39

No, I don't really think that has much to do with how many southern conservatives became that way. antigone382 Jun 2012 #19

Slavery by Another Name mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2012 #20

Wow. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2012 #61

PBS did a video: Slavery By Another Name RainDog Jun 2012 #67

"americans" generally are little different from germans, french, mexicans or anyone else. if they HiPointDem Jun 2012 #70

we're all complicit RainDog Jun 2012 #77

you don't see it in europe as much because they're more populated than the us -- and because HiPointDem Jun 2012 #79

true RainDog Jun 2012 #80

people who live in western cities don't personally exploit others (unless they do). what you mean HiPointDem Jun 2012 #83

by saying it's not personal choices RainDog Jun 2012 #84

collective action has nothing to do with personal shopping choices. and the "average person is HiPointDem Jun 2012 #85

I see that people get out in the street RainDog Jun 2012 #86

in general, it's not that significant there either. in france (the country i'm most familiar with) HiPointDem Jun 2012 #87

I beg to differ RainDog Jun 2012 #88

i said "on the ascendant". perhaps you haven't been following recent elections. the error is to HiPointDem Jun 2012 #89

think what you will RainDog Jun 2012 #95

It's not what I or they "know" it's what the hard evidence demonstrates: votes such as the HiPointDem Jun 2012 #96

As evil as slavery was and is, it is NOT America's original sin. What Europeans coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #114

The Europeans who came to the American continent were not Americans RainDog Jul 2012 #118

I understand your point and agree with it. I would merely point out that slavery began coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #119

The southern colonies were founded by Normans seeking to expand the British Empire. ieoeja Jun 2012 #23

In my younger days, bvar22 Jun 2012 #57

Are you contradicting me? Tsiyu Jun 2012 #59

lol, well maybe.. antigone382 Jul 2012 #99

Oh. A READER are ya? Tsiyu Jul 2012 #109

We had a storm last night...doubt it will do much except raise the humidity. antigone382 Jul 2012 #110

I kept watching the radar last night Tsiyu Jul 2012 #113

among the folks extracting profits in appalachia = bouvier ancestors of jackie kennedy. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #68

Yep... antigone382 Jul 2012 #100

no argument here. HiPointDem Jul 2012 #107

Just out of curiosity, what's your take on John Brown? Today, he coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #116

I sorta thought this line was key - sadly enough hfojvt Jun 2012 #41

Lincoln was wrong when he said "malice towards none". Dawson Leery Jun 2012 #51

And whether the promise was true or not of '40 acres and a mule' the plantations should have been... freshwest Jun 2012 #65

wow - my friend and I were just discussion this topic. Thanks for posting. myrna minx Jun 2012 #6

If you want to know why the working-class whites prefer "Massa's plantation" DinahMoeHum Jun 2012 #7

The early Barbados connection with South Carolina JohnyCanuck Jun 2012 #8

The brutal culture that was the first to secede in the Civil War Kolesar Jun 2012 #17

50,000 "Redleg" Irish Slaves were deported to Barbados by Cromwell from 1649-1660 leveymg Jun 2012 #44

who knew? grasswire Jul 2012 #106

Excellent points to discuss northoftheborder Jun 2012 #9

k&r Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #10

In other words TomClash Jun 2012 #11

Excellent article. aaaaaa5a Jun 2012 #12

A pretty devastating summary of American policy right now: woo me with science Jun 2012 #13

Well said!!! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #40

Good G*d, what a load of self-serving crap. mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2012 #14

Odd that they would put WW in that list. He was Southern-born and -raised: eppur_se_muova Jun 2012 #47

that should clue us in that the author hasn't taken much trouble with her article. just bs. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #72

Woodrow "History written in lightning" Wilson was a notorious racist Tom Ripley Jul 2012 #102

The Roosevelts made their first fortune in sugar -- using slave workers. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #71

Seems to be a tad bit of an oversimplification mmonk Jun 2012 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #22

I really take issue with the argument that the problem is the wrong set of elites taking power. antigone382 Jun 2012 #25

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #31

It's easy to be one when you can't drink the water in your own community... antigone382 Jun 2012 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #34

The fundamental premise of the article is that the wrong elites are in power. antigone382 Jun 2012 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #36

The problem is with elites. Period. antigone382 Jun 2012 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #46

I grew up here. Do you want to tell me you know more about it than I do? antigone382 Jun 2012 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #52

Exactly. n/t antigone382 Jun 2012 #53

looking at the elites in power (the ones who let us see them, at any rate), they seem a pretty HiPointDem Jun 2012 #75

Is there a wrong elite? Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2012 #94

In a way the wrong elites are in power. There should be no elites in power. Sirveri Jun 2012 #60

+1 antigone382 Jul 2012 #101

+1. it's because the northern elites exploited first and exploited more thoroughly that they got HiPointDem Jun 2012 #73

I was thinking the same thing. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2012 #93

I agree. The Northern elites were nothing to write home about either. bemildred Jun 2012 #37

Yes, that's really my only complaint about this whole article. antigone382 Jun 2012 #45

I'm thinking... DocMac Jun 2012 #55

There ya go. bemildred Jun 2012 #58

I don't know how people remember her, DocMac Jun 2012 #62

"Only the little people pay taxes..." nt bemildred Jun 2012 #63

bush 1 simply had better manners than bush 2; he was every bit as brutal. cia, gulf war, HiPointDem Jun 2012 #74

Fantastic post. I love how the bigotry, racism and ignorance of the North are somehow minimized Number23 Jul 2012 #104

C. Vann Woodward's seminal "The Strange Career of Jim Crow" (1955) notes coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #115

Because we let them. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2012 #91

General Sherman didn't burn enough, it seems. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #18

Outside South Carolina Sherman may have not burned anything (or very little). ieoeja Jun 2012 #24

Everything I've read says Sherman wanted to destroy the Planter Aristocracy Odin2005 Jun 2012 #64

It's not just about the elites SpartanDem Jun 2012 #26

The problem I have with such simplifications malthaussen Jun 2012 #27

Yep, and MTR pretty much turns your entire town into one big coal mine... antigone382 Jun 2012 #30

A variation on the "Cowboy Capitalists versus the Eastern Establishment" analysis of the 1960s. leveymg Jun 2012 #28

+1 Junkdrawer Jun 2012 #92

This is a fantastic article Aerows Jun 2012 #33

Interesting points. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2012 #38

KICK. NT Phhhtttt Jun 2012 #42

Remnants of the Great Awakening, as well. RainDog Jun 2012 #48

The old Yankee establishment, as a whole, did hifiguy Jun 2012 #49

Interesting article treestar Jun 2012 #54

This ties into Rmoney saying people should get the education they can afford: treestar Jun 2012 #56

An intriguing analysis. This bit summed it up for me... Beartracks Jun 2012 #76

riiight. the nice yankees who gave us the ludlow massacre, among others. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #90

The Old Guard in South Carolina long for the plantation days. Lint Head Jun 2012 #78

And the irony is that most of them would have been staring at the ass end of a mule from sunup to... Tom Ripley Jul 2012 #103

The author makes some mighty big leaps of logic in this article. Bette Noir Jun 2012 #81

Evangelicals are strongest in Riverside and Orange Counties, altho coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #117

I hate Southern GOP assh*les as much as anyone DonCoquixote Jun 2012 #82

Reminds me of a different article... backscatter712 Jun 2012 #97

Found it - the Scots-Irish roots of fundamentalism! backscatter712 Jul 2012 #111

Slightly racist XemaSab Jul 2012 #124

Slavery may have been abolished but not the slave owner's mindset. moondust Jun 2012 #98

I don't know about this. It looks like Wall Street is blaming the south again. I don't buy it. yardwork Jul 2012 #112

and there isn't much that is conservative about fascists fascisthunter Jul 2012 #122