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GarroHorus

(1,055 posts)

4. All that needed to happen in early Spetember, 1862, is for a courier to not loose Special Order 191

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:21 AM

Jul 2012

On September 9, 1862, General Robert E. Lee drafted special order 191. This was the order of battle for the Army of Virgina's invasion of Maryland.

A courier lost a copy of special order 191 wrapped around three cigars. Corporal Barton W. Mitchell of the 27th Indiana Volunteers found it and it ended up in General McClellan's hands. This lead to the Battle of Antietem and that battle lead to Lincoln issuing Emancipation Proclamation which kept England and France from recognizing the Confederacy as a nation.

That single document guaranteed the South would lose.

In his Timeline 191 series, Harry Turtledove speculates on how history would have turned had a confederate corporal seen the courier lose the document and handed it back to him. The entire series covers through the end of the Second World War.

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If the Confederate Army had invaded the Union more than in July 1863, [View all] raccoon Jul 2012 OP

I'm not sure but I saw this documentary last night that proved that they were vampires and mucifer Jul 2012 #1

I thought it was interesting that AsahinaKimi Jul 2012 #9

(uhh...Lincoln was 16th.........) eom lastlib Jul 2012 #10

whoops you are right.. AsahinaKimi Jul 2012 #12

Understandable. After all, James Monroe was a werewolf... JHB Jul 2012 #14

Howls!!! AsahinaKimi Jul 2012 #15

The Monroe Doctrine... JHB Jul 2012 #28

THESE are censored TIME magazine images of motherfucking "Ladybird" Johnson: Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #27

Happens all the time bongbong Jul 2012 #33

Teddy Roosevelt was the Zombie Killer. Throckmorton Jul 2012 #39

Any President who'd take on both vampires and (especially) zombies is OK in my book. Buns_of_Fire Jul 2012 #52

two doors down they're having a party over in - Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #2

Guess I should've posted in American History --maybe in a week or so I'd get a response.nt raccoon Jul 2012 #3

I'm sorry. My response to your post really belongs in the DU lounge. mucifer Jul 2012 #18

All that needed to happen in early Spetember, 1862, is for a courier to not loose Special Order 191 GarroHorus Jul 2012 #4

Britain and France weren't about to recognize the Confederacy Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #7

if McClellen had not had acces to special order 191, Lee woud have surrounded DC GarroHorus Jul 2012 #8

Only if the Union had surrendered and recognized Confederate independence Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #22

It's been a while since I read the first book of that series... JHB Jul 2012 #11

Loss of Washington would not have crippled the Union FarCenter Jul 2012 #17

If they took Washington, New York would have likely been the interim capital. ronwelldobbs Jul 2012 #46

Possibly New York would have been the permanent capital FarCenter Jul 2012 #47

I think as long as the North stayed committed to the fight they could have taken 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #21

If D.C. would have the war was over much the same as Richmond as thinking at that time goes. gordianot Jul 2012 #5

France and England were a real threat to the blockade GarroHorus Jul 2012 #6

I don't think the UK were particularly close to recognising the CSA Anarcho-Socialist Jul 2012 #13

Your subject line is unclear demwing Jul 2012 #16

Ha-ha-ha. One could say the war was over when P.G.T. Beauregard fired coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #26

Lee did not have to invest or capture Washington, D.C. to achieve coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #19

Both sides were operating on a "slice and dice" theory of warfare. Laelth Jul 2012 #20

Laeith, I have to disagree strongly with your assessment of coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #23

There can be little doubt that Lee's principal goals were political. Laelth Jul 2012 #24

I shall do likewise later today and tomorrow (when library is open here in LA). I only coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #25

After some brief research ... Laelth Jul 2012 #31

I actually believe you are more correct than I as to Lee's coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #35

Excellent. Thanks for the insight from McPherson. Laelth Jul 2012 #49

As an aside, Tim Smith says the "shoe supply" theory is a myth. Laelth Jul 2012 #32

both of Lee's invasions were disasters for the AoNV. KG Jul 2012 #29

Invading the North in 1863 was an act of desperation for the Confederacy. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #30

If Lee had been as smart as his hagiographers would have him, he coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #34

Yep. And, Lee knew it. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #36

The French had a problem in Mexico with Juarez nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #37

Yes. And, they needed the Brits to back them up. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #40

Juarez was far more of an issue nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #45

Well, I think had his orders not been discovered by a Union soldier, Lee coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #38

McClellan did his damndest to lose. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #42

Let's give McClellan his due. He was a great organizer and I think it's coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #44

While we're giving credit ... Laelth Jul 2012 #50

It ain't just the Army of the Potomac that coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #54

Hehe. Well said. n/t Laelth Jul 2012 #55

Lee was a military general exboyfil Jul 2012 #51

Lee was an inspirational leader, but he also took extraordinary risks. Laelth Jul 2012 #56

I agree with you about Longsteet exboyfil Jul 2012 #57

you mean besides Lawrence, Kansas hfojvt Jul 2012 #41

I'll have to google that...not familiar with it. nt raccoon Jul 2012 #48

Boston, New York... Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #43

While Lee was trying to invade the Union TexasProgresive Jul 2012 #53