General Discussion

treestar

(82,383 posts)

41. There are many issues to campaign on

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 01:25 PM

Jul 2012

The Obama campaign is capable of positive spin on the health care plan.

Rs would say Obama is raising taxes anyway. They say that every four years.

A Pyrrhic victory (/ˈpɪrɪk/) is a victory with such a devastating cost that it carries the implication that another such victory will ultimately lead to defeat. Someone who wins a "Pyrrhic victory" has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll and/or the detrimental consequences negates any sense of achievement or profit. There is, therefore, no reason to celebrate.
Contents [hide]
1 Origin
2 Examples
3 See also
4 References

How anyone can say the law being upheld is a pyrrhic victory is beyond all. So it would have been better to have it knocked down? The average voter sees a "winner" here and that is better than the Rs being able to say there is a tax hike under a Democrat (something they would have said anyway).

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

134 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Can the President still say that the mandate is not a "tax"?? [View all] kentuck Jul 2012 OP

How can it be Pyrrhic when the ACA stays in effect? treestar Jul 2012 #1

The Chief Justice ruled that it was constitutional only because... kentuck Jul 2012 #6

Except when this gets out BumRushDaShow Jul 2012 #7

I'm going to find that link and save it to my phone... Volaris Jul 2012 #64

A Pyrrhic victory is one in name only treestar Jul 2012 #18

I think that calling it a "Pyrrhic" victory means that it may have a negative effect razorman Jul 2012 #25

There are many issues to campaign on treestar Jul 2012 #41

You have a point. Of course, both sides will try to "spin" to their best advantage. razorman Jul 2012 #134

"Its positive attributes can be touted." - in today's "liberally-biased media"??? zbdent Jul 2012 #34

No argument from me on the media carrying water for Rs treestar Jul 2012 #42

Well Dems really need to start touting loudly and often. n/t Beartracks Jul 2012 #76

If I don't get health insurance and pay the tax what do I get? You just stated: kelly1mm Jul 2012 #39

A health insurance policy? treestar Jul 2012 #72

No, I don't get a health insurance policy by paying the tax. By definition you only pay the tax if kelly1mm Jul 2012 #74

Then get the insurance policy treestar Jul 2012 #109

This is the first I've heard of the catastrophic loss coverage. drm604 Jul 2012 #106

that is what insurance policies are for! treestar Jul 2012 #110

I understand what insurance policies are for. I'm not stupid. drm604 Jul 2012 #111

The only people who will pay the penalty are treestar Jul 2012 #114

I understand that. drm604 Jul 2012 #116

No, paying the penalty would mean no coverage treestar Jul 2012 #124

It's a tax on a behavior? girl gone mad Jul 2012 #62

Well, that's what the Court said treestar Jul 2012 #71

If you can't afford it, government subsidies are available. drm604 Jul 2012 #104

One Justice says it is a tax Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #2

Explain tax break for 99 percent Broderick Jul 2012 #3

Actually, it's projected to be 98% Wounded Bear Jul 2012 #9

That seems like an unrealistic projection. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #63

The tax/penalty will only be on 1 or 2 percent of the population. Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #16

Well that might go higher as people drop coverages. Broderick Jul 2012 #30

Have you tried the Wa Po calculator? Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #40

thanks for the link Broderick Jul 2012 #125

How can they possibly project those percentages? B2G Jul 2012 #46

That is the rate in MA where they have a similar system. Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #55

Good points. kentuck Jul 2012 #8

I don't think he can, and along those lines hughee99 Jul 2012 #4

The decision says it is not a penalty treestar Jul 2012 #45

The President won the battle for legislation he tacked his presidency on, but Roberts gave... Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #5

"There's a certain type of diabolic brilliance..." kentuck Jul 2012 #12

Some legal scholars suggest Roberts produced an essentially conservative opinion with a... Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #17

Thanks PB! kentuck Jul 2012 #28

It is a penalty affecting a small number of people who could afford to buy health insurance but Skidmore Jul 2012 #10

The IRS does not administer DMV fines. David__77 Jul 2012 #105

This tax is going to impact the middle class the most B2G Jul 2012 #11

Bullshit. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #58

Bull. The middle class can afford insurance Arkana Jul 2012 #117

The Mandate isn't a tax. The Penalty is. If you follow the law, you incur no tax. MjolnirTime Jul 2012 #13

Good description n/t ChazII Jul 2012 #68

Because one out of the nine Justices says it's a tax, Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #14

Because he wrote the majority opinion... kentuck Jul 2012 #15

That was still only his opinion. Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #19

So the President can say that it is only CJ Roberts' decision? kentuck Jul 2012 #22

Yep. Five Justices said ACA was fine, Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #33

But it ProSense Jul 2012 #21

Interesting that Roberts may be too clever by half... kentuck Jul 2012 #24

Democrats ProSense Jul 2012 #27

I would agree but still... kentuck Jul 2012 #29

To add... rufus dog Jul 2012 #32

The Chief Justice based his decision on the White House's own arguments. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #65

The Solicitor General argued before the SCOTUS that it was a tax zoechen Jul 2012 #20

Thanks for the clarification... kentuck Jul 2012 #26

The spin will be interesting 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #23

Again, while five Justices said it was constitutional, only one said it was a tax. Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #37

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." A tax by any other name would smell as... Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #31

I think Dems best response is - "Huge tax increase"? Fearmongering hyperbole. Check the facts... pinto Jul 2012 #35

It is a tax and your health insurance premiums are now taxes. dkf Jul 2012 #36

Insurance premiums are NOT taxes B2G Jul 2012 #44

We didn't choose. The government forced us to buy it. dkf Jul 2012 #53

Got it...and I agree B2G Jul 2012 #54

+1 Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #59

You aren't forced to buy anything. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #60

He can, he is and he will. lonestarnot Jul 2012 #38

Whatever they call it, 40 millon uninsured will now be covered still_one Jul 2012 #43

It's all about informing people about how they will save $ flamingdem Jul 2012 #50

17 million were supposed to be covered under expansion of Medicaid. dkf Jul 2012 #56

Ask Romney. nt BootinUp Jul 2012 #47

I stand by Justice Ginsburg ashling Jul 2012 #48

To your final question .... The people who now get coverage won. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #49

Why are you looking gift horse in the mouth. pennylane100 Jul 2012 #51

Simply stated. kentuck Jul 2012 #52

I support fair taxation. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #57

No. I think taxes are necessary for the society that we want. kentuck Jul 2012 #61

You are a brave person; your op is spot on (if it looks like a tax, quacks like a tax, and walks sad sally Jul 2012 #70

This is a very regressive tax. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #67

why is it regressive? Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #69

It's regressive in that a .001% upper income will pay the same as a 10% upper income.. Fumesucker Jul 2012 #77

They say that anyway, truth be damned. PotatoChip Jul 2012 #66

It's like a cigarette tax Life Long Dem Jul 2012 #73

And the Repubs are now saying... kentuck Jul 2012 #75

why are you ignoring the interpretations of the other affirming Justices bigtree Jul 2012 #80

Yes it's a tax. So what? bluestateguy Jul 2012 #78

Absolutely right. kentuck Jul 2012 #85

A sovereign currency government does not need to increase taxes to spend. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #100

why can't he refer to more than just the one Justice who claims it's a tax? bigtree Jul 2012 #79

But then, it would have failed and you would have something else to complain about. kentuck Jul 2012 #81

I don't understand why is this such a problem to understand. zoechen Jul 2012 #83

It was not just "one Justice". former9thward Jul 2012 #82

Must have been a very persuasive argument? kentuck Jul 2012 #84

It is about one word zoechen Jul 2012 #87

he says that IF they view it as a tax, they have an obligation to leave the law alone bigtree Jul 2012 #88

So I don't understand what you point is zoechen Jul 2012 #89

so the Justices that didn't recognize the tax argument were just swiss cheese? bigtree Jul 2012 #90

The fact of the matter is zoechen Jul 2012 #92

I think you are right. kentuck Jul 2012 #94

that doesn't make the tax element some overriding part of the mandate bigtree Jul 2012 #98

It says it (taxation) was the "heart" of his argument. former9thward Jul 2012 #118

it affects about2% of the population, mostly affluent folks opting out bigtree Jul 2012 #121

So Obama's lawyer lied to the court. former9thward Jul 2012 #122

no, that's just a distortion of what was said and the facts of the law bigtree Jul 2012 #128

social security and medicare are mandated taxes madrchsod Jul 2012 #86

There's a difference between a tax, and a penalty imposed under the authority to tax markpkessinger Jul 2012 #91

The administrations own Council General argued zoechen Jul 2012 #93

If they had not made that argument... kentuck Jul 2012 #95

That's what I'm saying zoechen Jul 2012 #96

What is at issue now is not what the Solicitor argued, but what the Court actually held n/t markpkessinger Jul 2012 #97

Ok zoechen Jul 2012 #99

In other words, would it have been better to have the entire bill declared unconstitutional? kentuck Jul 2012 #101

I agree zoechen Jul 2012 #102

The Solicitor made two parallel arguments . . . markpkessinger Jul 2012 #107

Right, I have already commented on this before zoechen Jul 2012 #108

Well, it is a "tax" by all reasonable measures... David__77 Jul 2012 #103

It's a penalty paid as a tax.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #115

No, it's not a tax, it's a .... soccer1 Jul 2012 #130

the supreme court confirmed that he can call it whatever he wants. unblock Jul 2012 #112

Nnnnnnope cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #113

No. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #119

Romney agrees with the President... kentuck Jul 2012 #120

yes. it is a penalty. spanone Jul 2012 #123

Pyrrhic? Not in the slightest. It ENERGIZED Obama, if anything. MADem Jul 2012 #126

It is not a tax; it is a penalty to be paid only by free-riders. NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #127

tell em bigtree Jul 2012 #129

I don't understand by people want to echo the current RW talk radio rant about "new taxes"... NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #133

"penalty to be paid only by free-riders" girl gone mad Jul 2012 #131

Hey, why don't you just take it up with Nancy Pelosi, who used the term last week? NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #132