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In reply to the discussion: When did so many (not all) "christians" become hateful psychopaths? [View all]Zorra
(27,670 posts)107. +1. IMO, too many people mistake selfishness, and ruthlessness, as signs of good leadership skills.
"Fundamentalism is the triumph of Paul over Christ."--Will Durant
(Caveat: I do not consider myself to be a Christian, but I'm quite sure that I genuinely understand far more about essential Christianity than any RW fundamentalist christian.)
In the history of Christianity, we see instance after instance, ad nauseum, of murderous, evil, authoritarian sociopaths gaining control of people's minds and actions.
It's basic group dynamics.
Authoritarians take power and control over groups by being selfish, aggressive, and ruthless. Too many people are cowed by by bullies. Instead of standing up to them, they submit. Far too many people are insecure and under confident, and frightened by bullies, and are afraid to challenge their authority. That's why Christ has been usurped by Paul, and why most Democrats won't stand with Occupy to remove the 1% from power. (Occupy recognizes that individual authoritarians will eventually assume control of Occupy if not prevented from doing so. Our fail-safe mechanism for preventing this is our non-wavering insistence on collective leadership. And this is also why so many Democrats have a problem with the collective leadership ideal of Occupy. They need an authority figure, a queen or king, to shepherd them, and cannot conceive of living life without an authoritarian leader.)
IMO, it's the same with fundy Christians, when viewed in the context of material reality vs. the reality of the Christ Consciousness. Instead of recognizing their own metaphysical leadership of the collective, of what is often called the "Body of Christ" ("I am the Vine, you are the Branches"
, the connection with the Christ consciousness (being "Born Again of the Spirit"
that exists in each member of the Body, they delegate authority over their beliefs to an authoritarian person, most often a male, - ie Paul, an authoritarian Pope, a Pastor, a Bishop, whatever, and give up their faith and belief in the Spirit of Christ and any possibility of genuine real time interaction with a Living Deity to the authority of flawed, often very egotistical, men, and the Bible. They abandon the "Love of Christ" for the authoritarian material precepts and approval of Saul of Tarsus and his modern day representatives, the interpretation of Paul's words respective to their sect, and what has primarily become Paul's doctrine, the book known as the Christian Bible.
Anyway, that's only my very humble and incomplete POV on this, as someone with maybe too much time on their hands and who has always been interested in history, politics, theology, and metaphysics, as vehicles for attempting to gain a better perspective on the conditions that exist today, and those that may exist in the future.
"For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous." (1 John 3:11-12).
Historical Quotes Concerning Paul and his doctrines from Historians, Philosophers and Theologians:
<<<
>>>

(Caveat: I do not consider myself to be a Christian, but I'm quite sure that I genuinely understand far more about essential Christianity than any RW fundamentalist christian.)
In the history of Christianity, we see instance after instance, ad nauseum, of murderous, evil, authoritarian sociopaths gaining control of people's minds and actions.
It's basic group dynamics.
Authoritarians take power and control over groups by being selfish, aggressive, and ruthless. Too many people are cowed by by bullies. Instead of standing up to them, they submit. Far too many people are insecure and under confident, and frightened by bullies, and are afraid to challenge their authority. That's why Christ has been usurped by Paul, and why most Democrats won't stand with Occupy to remove the 1% from power. (Occupy recognizes that individual authoritarians will eventually assume control of Occupy if not prevented from doing so. Our fail-safe mechanism for preventing this is our non-wavering insistence on collective leadership. And this is also why so many Democrats have a problem with the collective leadership ideal of Occupy. They need an authority figure, a queen or king, to shepherd them, and cannot conceive of living life without an authoritarian leader.)
IMO, it's the same with fundy Christians, when viewed in the context of material reality vs. the reality of the Christ Consciousness. Instead of recognizing their own metaphysical leadership of the collective, of what is often called the "Body of Christ" ("I am the Vine, you are the Branches"
Anyway, that's only my very humble and incomplete POV on this, as someone with maybe too much time on their hands and who has always been interested in history, politics, theology, and metaphysics, as vehicles for attempting to gain a better perspective on the conditions that exist today, and those that may exist in the future.
Why Nice Guys Don't Make It to the Top
The first two experiments found that selfishness and displays of 'out-group hate' - unnecessarily depriving the members of another group - boosted dominance but decreased respect and admiration from others. In contrast, showing in-group love - generously sharing resources with fellow group members - increased respect and admiration but decreased dominance.
The third experiment found that "universalism" - that is, sharing one's resources with both in-group members and outsiders - had the most dire net outcomes on a person's status. The researchers discovered that universal generosity decreased perceptions of both prestige and dominance compared with those who shared resources only with members of their group.
In short, being generous can boost prestige if an individual is selectively generous to his or her own group; this increases respect and admiration from others. However, being selfish or belligerent (unnecessarily harming members of another group) decreases respect and admiration from others but it increases perceptions of personal dominance.
The intriguing consequence is that dominant individuals were more likely than prestigious individuals to be elected as a representative for the group in a mock competition with another group. Thus, being too nice can have negative consequences for leadership.
The first two experiments found that selfishness and displays of 'out-group hate' - unnecessarily depriving the members of another group - boosted dominance but decreased respect and admiration from others. In contrast, showing in-group love - generously sharing resources with fellow group members - increased respect and admiration but decreased dominance.
The third experiment found that "universalism" - that is, sharing one's resources with both in-group members and outsiders - had the most dire net outcomes on a person's status. The researchers discovered that universal generosity decreased perceptions of both prestige and dominance compared with those who shared resources only with members of their group.
In short, being generous can boost prestige if an individual is selectively generous to his or her own group; this increases respect and admiration from others. However, being selfish or belligerent (unnecessarily harming members of another group) decreases respect and admiration from others but it increases perceptions of personal dominance.
The intriguing consequence is that dominant individuals were more likely than prestigious individuals to be elected as a representative for the group in a mock competition with another group. Thus, being too nice can have negative consequences for leadership.
"For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous." (1 John 3:11-12).
Historical Quotes Concerning Paul and his doctrines from Historians, Philosophers and Theologians:
<<<
>>>
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When did so many (not all) "christians" become hateful psychopaths? [View all]
NightWatcher
Jul 2012
OP
not all but a large majority are Anglo, sorry if people can't accept that but its backed up by
NavyDavy
Jul 2012
#106
The title of this OP strains to make the distnction between 'so many' and 'all'. Yet the post I
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2012
#115
Personally, I'm not greatly fond of religion itself either, so I understand more than most.
Tigress DEM
Jul 2012
#298
There are precise, obvious and relevant differences between both the classical and the contemporary
LanternWaste
Feb 2014
#325
I don't think he's quite THAT old, but he was with Hitler's Youth Patrols.
Tigress DEM
Jul 2012
#291
You have the correct view. There's no use looking into the past for a period when
dimbear
Jul 2012
#287
Really? So then Americans are completely bad because of everything we've done too.
Tigress DEM
Jul 2012
#300
Right, but it's still fictional. I didn't say that "I" thought all Americans are bad.
Tigress DEM
Jul 2012
#305
You and I aren't very far apart, really. I intentionally misunderstood you because you
dimbear
Jul 2012
#310
A habit so strong, so old, so ALL pervasive that they are almost completely unaware of it,
patrice
Jul 2012
#285
I think aethia is referring to in general, on average and you are referring to one specific case/you
patrice
Jul 2012
#280
Part of the difficulty is the Right/Wrong concept itself. There is a middle too.
Tigress DEM
Jul 2012
#306
Reads as though you may be like me, in love with the mystery that we Catholics used to call the
patrice
Jul 2012
#308
Agree, on average. The last emotion to disappear from a living brain/nervous system is Fear.
patrice
Jul 2012
#281
I think about that original Rollerball a lot, too. It doesn't get enough credit...
villager
Jul 2012
#47
They have to be a little careful to protect their tax-exempt status. Not much, but a little.
yardwork
Jul 2012
#147
That was what I was going to say. All warped to stay/get rich, idolizing the rich. Saw it up close.
freshwest
Jul 2012
#108
+1. IMO, too many people mistake selfishness, and ruthlessness, as signs of good leadership skills.
Zorra
Jul 2012
#107
The way I interpret the NT tells me there was a helluva power struggle going on
malthaussen
Jul 2012
#250
1970s. The Republicans figured out a way to stay in power by coopting churches.
yardwork
Jul 2012
#9
Exactly!!! The "faithful" will blindly follow, it attracts a lemming type personality IMO. n/t
RKP5637
Jul 2012
#105
That's a good point in that differentiation. Wow, there are really 38,000 Christian denominations ..
RKP5637
Jul 2012
#324
Spot on. The Right's "Southern Strategy" pales in comparison to their "Christian Strategy."
SunSeeker
Jul 2012
#141
Ive have partied with some former UW grads many years ago and I can only imagine.
DCBob
Jul 2012
#55
Problem is, when they read such, they see THEMSELVES, not others as the blessed ones...
Moonwalk
Jul 2012
#69
But there's more! like how do they explain this in relation to their relentless search for wealth
Ghost of Huey Long
Jul 2012
#162
They have no explanation for their 'praying' in public, applauding themselves for being so 'holy'
Ghost of Huey Long
Jul 2012
#163
I thought that was why they are against campaign contribution transparency.
Tigress DEM
Jul 2012
#319
It's interesting that your post appeared right after #12 because those were land grabs!
yardwork
Jul 2012
#16
and the church in the dark/middle ages creating the modern marriage was for gaining land....
NavyDavy
Jul 2012
#110
Bwa-ha-ha. Great Mormon story. I would have said I hoped to return as a flea
coalition_unwilling
Jul 2012
#21
Why just pick on Christians? Many Muslims and Jews are just as bad. It's a thing about all
totodeinhere
Jul 2012
#43
Your statement is in the right direction, Muslim are considered as ultra conserative
Thinkingabout
Jul 2012
#57
because Christians are always attacking other religions for the things the Christian say are hateful
NavyDavy
Jul 2012
#112
I don't think that Christinas have a monoploy on that sort of thing either. n/t
totodeinhere
Jul 2012
#134
The "mean" ones are also seems to be very anti-abortion but against taking care of children
Thinkingabout
Jul 2012
#49
But it is primarily a discussion of the religous right, and how the perversion of a
Zorra
Jul 2012
#138
You touched on what I've thought for some time now, the desire by some christians
RKP5637
Jul 2012
#135
no its in the right place.....its not about theology its a discussion about behavior of a certain
NavyDavy
Jul 2012
#116
Well, now I know where YouTube posters hang out when they're not there.
I Love a Mystery
Jul 2012
#215
The problem with religious fantatacism isn't the religion. It's the fanatacism.
rocktivity
Jul 2012
#67
Good post. The social justice people left and the angry/scared took over the leadership
uppityperson
Jul 2012
#113
Well said. I have absolutely no use for religion anymore. I left years ago. Today to
RKP5637
Jul 2012
#83
Four events triggered this: Civil rights, roe vs. wade, Jerry Falwell and Raygun.
jwirr
Jul 2012
#87
Some people accept their religious lifestyle with grace...others have a problem because...
Tikki
Jul 2012
#96
I became judgmental when I started getting religious laws forced down my throat.
Shadowflash
Jul 2012
#111
the oped did not state all Christians, show me some proof that food stamps are being used by most
NavyDavy
Jul 2012
#124
"the halcyon (as imagined by us old farts) days of the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
Occulus
Jul 2012
#222
True, but IF the conversation can result in more tolerance on both sides, it's worth it.
Tigress DEM
Jul 2012
#292
You can do and say anything and be a Christian. The label is meaningless.
Manifestor_of_Light
Jul 2012
#132
Maybe they should be called Levicites since they are more interested in old Bible Laws
ErikJ
Jul 2012
#148
My neighbors go to church every sunday to the cool and groovy born again mega church..
progressivebydesign
Jul 2012
#151
I would suggest some hateful psychopaths use religion as a front for their hate....
Thor_MN
Jul 2012
#169
when?, sometime between 1977 and 1980 as far as mainstream American Evangelicals are concerned
Douglas Carpenter
Jul 2012
#174
This is bullshit moderators! If someone posted this same shit about Muslims or Hindus it would be
nonoxy9
Jul 2012
#175
I wouldn't worry. Assuming Christianity is true, I think it said somewhere in the Bible
Proles
Jul 2012
#180
Fortunately, there are many Christians who are not like that. Barack Obama, Joe Biden, the Clintons,
Nye Bevan
Jul 2012
#187
Agree. LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964. The southern white churches mostly were
SDjack
Jul 2012
#283
The "pain" you feel over being "attacked" (which you yourself are not) is as nothing compared to
Occulus
Jul 2012
#239
Would you be happy if Obama, Biden, the Kennedys, and Jimmy Carter renounced their Christianity? nt
Nye Bevan
Jul 2012
#220
Yep. If you start a "why do so many Muslims believe that they will be rewarded with 72 virgins
Nye Bevan
Jul 2012
#212
Funny, I've never felt "persecuted" by Christians such as Obama, Biden, the Kennedys, the Clintons,
Nye Bevan
Jul 2012
#219
There have ALWAYS been strong currents of right-wing Christianity in the United States....
YoungDemCA
Jul 2012
#240
imho, you are referencing the pagan/neopagan demonic crew that has been with US ever since Creation.
bobthedrummer
Jul 2012
#242
Please elaborate on this "unstability" in the natural sciences. I'm curious.
2ndAmForComputers
Jul 2012
#257
About the same time that many humans (not all) became hateful psychopaths.
LanternWaste
Jul 2012
#245
When the KKK stopped being a powerful force in our culture, they went Religious Right n/t
arcane1
Jul 2012
#278
Agree. I'd bet there is a high probability that the dominant trait(s) are negative. nt
patrice
Jul 2012
#286
The ironic thing is, the Christian Right has lost a lot of power in society at large....
YoungDemCA
Jul 2012
#320