General Discussion

sarisataka

(22,364 posts)

53. Thank you

Sat Apr 1, 2017, 02:09 PM

Apr 2017

My architectural knowledge is about nil.

I was trying so calculate some force of impact equations, ill remembered from long ago physics classes. It doesn't take much of a drop to get a lot of newtons.

Even from my very rough calculations I can see the structural capacity would have to be many time the basic load to withstand the force of even a single floor falling onto the one immediately below.

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For anyone who still doesnt think 160,000 lbs of jet fuel can make a bldg collapse [View all] 7962 Apr 2017 OP

Conspiracy theory stuff goes in the Creative Speculation Group. MineralMan Apr 2017 #1

But what about conspiracy debunking? NightWatcher Apr 2017 #2

There has been a long tradition on DU of not posting 9/11 arguments MineralMan Apr 2017 #4

Creative speculation belongs in creative speculation. kcr Apr 2017 #8

You were right... genxlib Apr 2017 #59

That was my first thought as well. cwydro Apr 2017 #3

The impact of fire on steel structures isn't a conspiracy, it's engineering reality. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #15

Exactly. Heat DOES affect steel. Someone tell Rosie& the others. 7962 Apr 2017 #39

Heat also dramatically weakens reinforced concrete. nt Blue_true Apr 2017 #85

Maybe it's time to honor science and factual arguments. yardwork Apr 2017 #22

+1000 nt NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #23

9/11 - another massive republican FAIL Achilleaze Apr 2017 #26

apples and oranges. librechik Apr 2017 #5

I'm an Engineer... genxlib Apr 2017 #12

In layman's terms the planes brought em down. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2017 #13

OK genxlib Apr 2017 #19

I knew I could count on at least ONE engineer to show!! Thank you. 7962 Apr 2017 #40

Mechanical Engineer. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #49

For Pete's sake, I'm a drummer and even I get it.. pangaia Apr 2017 #101

The highway pancaked once and hit the ground. The buildings each librechik Apr 2017 #27

You are misunderstanding the physics genxlib Apr 2017 #37

In a large building sarisataka Apr 2017 #38

It is risky to ask a nerd a technical question... genxlib Apr 2017 #51

Thank you sarisataka Apr 2017 #53

Your welcome genxlib Apr 2017 #57

Great posts. Except for one thing... DanTex Apr 2017 #60

That's OK genxlib Apr 2017 #63

You're doing just fine Warpy Apr 2017 #76

Tanks for pointing that out. Another forgotten point. Or ignored. 7962 Apr 2017 #80

That and a little learning being a dangerous thing Warpy Apr 2017 #90

Thanks for the explanation. Hadn't thought about all that. /nt. Mean Gene Apr 2017 #61

What this exchange tells me is that some people will choose ideology over facts and physics no stevenleser Apr 2017 #95

Well said GulfCoast66 Apr 2017 #97

Once again, even this dumb drummer even gets it. DUH !! pangaia Apr 2017 #102

Depends on the building, really Warpy Apr 2017 #108

Interesting. I always learn new things here. pangaia Apr 2017 #111

Here's a nicely succinct rebuttal that I found a few years back Orrex Apr 2017 #126

Generally Speaking... ProfessorGAC Apr 2017 #116

Thanks, Prof. I learned even more.... pangaia Apr 2017 #117

Whole Tone Music ProfessorGAC Apr 2017 #138

One small (?) change to what you said that I rarely see acknowledged. WillowTree Apr 2017 #103

You are correct genxlib Apr 2017 #119

Even more genxlib Apr 2017 #54

Thanks Dem2 Apr 2017 #78

"I know, it was 800 gallons of kerosene!" No, it was 10,000 gallons of jet fuel... EX500rider Apr 2017 #73

I'm an engineer Dem2 Apr 2017 #77

excuse me, what made the rest of the 100 plus floors not touched by fire fall?? librechik Apr 2017 #31

Its called physics. 7962 Apr 2017 #41

except force doesn't increase as it hits obstacles like steel reinforced concrete floors librechik Apr 2017 #52

Please see post 54 genxlib Apr 2017 #55

More to your point genxlib Apr 2017 #64

This is why stupid consipiracy theory crap is relegated to the dungeon snooper2 Apr 2017 #120

But steel doesn't melt! Steel has never melted in all of recorded history! Aristus Apr 2017 #6

There are people who actually think steel doesn't melt? Laffy Kat Apr 2017 #10

Who the fuck knows? Aristus Apr 2017 #16

That is mind boggling! yardwork Apr 2017 #20

THANK YOU!!! I was never aware of a "steel beam mine" nt 7962 Apr 2017 #42

Steel melts, IIRC, at 1600 degrees F. At 1200 degrees F (the maximum temperature KingCharlemagne Apr 2017 #11

actually it melts at 2750 degrees if you are talking Farehrenheit librechik Apr 2017 #34

And it retains all strength and rigidity right up until it reaches 2750 degrees? Orrex Apr 2017 #127

Steel doesn't need to reach melting temperature to become soft. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #17

I agree. Aristus Apr 2017 #18

My sarcasm meter is a bit broken today. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #21

247 times--all the way down all three WTC buildings librechik Apr 2017 #29

Overload. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #36

steel doesn't melt at 860 degrees, the hottest jet fuel gets without a furnace to help librechik Apr 2017 #28

Sorry, but jet fuel can burn up to 1500F. Google is your friend 7962 Apr 2017 #44

I thought about the 911 Troofers too Hokie Apr 2017 #7

The engineering involved in the two is so different that it's comparing a dog to a tree. KittyWampus Apr 2017 #9

Fire weakens structure. Structure collapses. kcr Apr 2017 #14

What brought the other building down? panader0 Apr 2017 #24

Most likely it was the plane that hit the second tower JimGinPA Apr 2017 #47

Both buildings were hit by a plane near the building top. Blue_true Apr 2017 #86

Three buildings fell. One was not hit by anything. panader0 Apr 2017 #89

What makes you think it wasn't hit by anything? EX500rider Apr 2017 #132

If you look closely below, you can see the steel I beams that support the deck. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #25

One possible difference genxlib Apr 2017 #43

You're right. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #45

Burning jet fuel has a specific temperature. It does not reach that sufficient to turn REINFORCED WinkyDink Apr 2017 #30

Complete nonsense Major Nikon Apr 2017 #65

Even the compromised "Popular Mechanics" only goes as far as claiming the steel columns would WinkyDink Apr 2017 #92

No doubt PM is part of the conspiracy Major Nikon Apr 2017 #93

you must be kidding me?? GulfCoast66 Apr 2017 #96

Yeah, Popular Mechanics sold out a LONG time ago- 1936! snooper2 Apr 2017 #121

And the NYT printed that Saddam had WMD's. Your point? WinkyDink Apr 2017 #136

What's "REINFORCED steel"? EX500rider Apr 2017 #74

There are many grades of steel. Blue_true Apr 2017 #87

My father worked for Bethlehem Steel. Titanium, e.g., is added to strengthen steel. WinkyDink Apr 2017 #91

WTF is reinforced steel? GulfCoast66 Apr 2017 #98

Just for fun... genxlib Apr 2017 #128

It does reach a temperature sufficient to soften it Warpy Apr 2017 #109

For anyone who still swallows the official republican Fake News talking points Achilleaze Apr 2017 #32

lol--so true. librechik Apr 2017 #33

What I don't get is why you need it all to be a lie. Kentonio Apr 2017 #62

I don't fucking "need" anything but the facts. librechik Apr 2017 #66

Engineers keep giving you the facts. Kentonio Apr 2017 #69

Brilliant & right to the point. Thanks nt 7962 Apr 2017 #83

I will stick with my source thank you...... whistler162 Apr 2017 #88

But you're choosing "fake facts" over actual FACT. 7962 Apr 2017 #70

here, I will help you out: EX500rider Apr 2017 #75

Any fact that doesnt support the theory is said to be "faked by the CIA" 7962 Apr 2017 #81

Go rewatch the South Park episode Jonny Appleseed Apr 2017 #105

28 pages showed Saudi intel agents helped and funded hijackers yurbud Apr 2017 #35

You dont have to be a republican to understand physics. 7962 Apr 2017 #46

The Democratic Party is supposed to support science. NutmegYankee Apr 2017 #50

That AT-AT is like ten times taller than the normal Walkers. It's legs would be exceptionally long anneboleyn Apr 2017 #56

lofl uponit7771 Apr 2017 #94

I too mock people who place more faith in physics than in my own allegations. LanternWaste Apr 2017 #130

Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #48

Made It Happen On Purpose? WTF? Squinch Apr 2017 #58

Made what happen? Achilleaze Apr 2017 #67

What you lack in objective facts is more than made up for in unsupported allegations... LanternWaste Apr 2017 #131

What you gain in subjective fancification is more than diminished in supported non sequiturs Achilleaze Apr 2017 #134

Yes, there are whole groups dedicated to that line of nonsense; 7962 Apr 2017 #71

That's Jackpine Radical level of crazy! Squinch Apr 2017 #72

Got any examples of the Islamist flying planes into buildings thingys that you read? GulfCoast66 Apr 2017 #99

It was well after the 1st attack on the WTC. A couple stories I had seen on TV; 7962 Apr 2017 #112

I think a missile brought the bridge down. egduj Apr 2017 #68

Oh lord, that'll really bring 'em out! 7962 Apr 2017 #82

Bullshit GulfCoast66 Apr 2017 #100

Some people just want to watch the world burn Warpy Apr 2017 #110

Just stop with your ridiculous conspiracy theories, okay??? obamanut2012 Apr 2017 #115

It was actually weakened by urine from homeless folks who lived there snooper2 Apr 2017 #122

I saw this coming. Dem2 Apr 2017 #79

From what I understand, the main issue with the old WTC Blue_true Apr 2017 #84

This thread brings back memories. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #104

I think that this election cycle showed us that we have no aliens or CIA blackout squads Jonny Appleseed Apr 2017 #106

Precisely nt 7962 Apr 2017 #113

follow the money jesskirablue42 Apr 2017 #107

If you're trying to refer to shorting airline stocks, another overblown failure. 7962 Apr 2017 #123

They are charging a homeless guy...I call bullshit. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #114

The bridge was brought down by an implosion bomb. Orrex Apr 2017 #118

Micronukes to be precise. Either that or a directed energy weapon of some sort. stevenleser Apr 2017 #124

Finally a voice of reason! Orrex Apr 2017 #125

Now, now, we all know it was micro thermite plasma charges! EX500rider Apr 2017 #133

They aren't even good conspiracy theorists. That's how fucking dumb they are. NCTraveler Apr 2017 #129

SOOO not apples to apples. OMG. WinkyDink Apr 2017 #135

You should read some of the posts above from actual engineers 7962 Apr 2017 #137