General Discussion

JCanete

(5,272 posts)

125. My point about us being on the same side was that there didn't seem to be a divide on

Tue Apr 4, 2017, 05:28 PM

Apr 2017

Last edited Tue Apr 4, 2017, 10:05 PM - Edit history (1)

philosophies over this proposal, here at DU. We all seemed to like the result, so taking it as something we could all be proud of seemed like something that should be galvanizing here.

I'm not sure what your referring to regarding preaching. I'm not promoting preaching, I'm promoting making good ideas part of the public discourse...breaking down the initial reactionary, "common sense", rejections of things, often because of dogmatic, unexplored assumptions. Those can change.

I'm perfectly willing to show dissatisfaction for Democrats who don't seem to be working towards the right goals though. There is no loyalty oath to our candidates. Our job is to hold their feet to the fire, as it is to hold our elected officials of all parties to the fire. We do need to be circumspect about our criticism, and not immediately jump to the worst conclusions, but I'm not going to be proud of the Joe Lieberman's any time soon.

Corporate shill or not--agreed that the term is unfair when applied to Democrats in general--money in politics is a problem. It can't just be a problem when it infuses Republicans. It either has power or it doesn't, and how that influences, or who that rises up because of alignment on certain ideas, matters. We can't simply ignore that issue when it comes to our own.

We could get into the divisiveness in the campaigns..though maybe we shouldn't. From my perspective though(so that we don't get into a war of facts, I'll leave this only as my own interpretation), divisiveness was a two-way street, and I think it would be helpful to acknowledge it on all sides.

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Bernie Sanders Just Introduced His Free College Tuition Plan [View all] Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2017 OP

Go Bernie! PatrickforO Apr 2017 #1

Bernie! Bernie! Blue_Warrior Apr 2017 #81

Agreed. Thankfully Bernie, Elizabeth and the others are still willing to fight. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #100

You asked and they delivered. Wellstone ruled Apr 2017 #2

If passed, this will also save the VA lots of GI Bill bucks. williesgirl Apr 2017 #3

Yes, but TimeToGo Apr 2017 #4

This is the main reason I see this failing. LuvNewcastle Apr 2017 #5

Good thing I waited.. Permanut Apr 2017 #6

Read the fine print, it's actually Andrew Cuomo's proposal. George II Apr 2017 #7

Nuh uh! Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2017 #8

whatev' George II Apr 2017 #9

From the article: tammywammy Apr 2017 #12

Thanks for reading the article and pointing that out. When I was of college age... George II Apr 2017 #89

See the picture, side by side with a certain senator that day countryjake Apr 2017 #14

He had such a good idea back in 2015 that Dems made it part of our platform! beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #16

This actually sounds more like Hillary's plan. It's not free college, as Bernie synergie Apr 2017 #41

+1000! mcar Apr 2017 #82

Did you see where Cuomo thanked Bernie for bringing this issue to the public's attention? beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #113

Bernie first introduced a bill for free tuition in 2015, I recall lots of folks opposed it back then beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #25

I'm so glad that the Democrats who sponsored the bill did such a good job synergie Apr 2017 #44

It's ALWAYS the hard work of MORE THAN ONE person, isn't it? NurseJackie Apr 2017 #84

At least we agree on that NurseJ LiberalLovinLug Apr 2017 #132

It's nice when I see politicians who are willing to give credit where credit is due... NurseJackie Apr 2017 #135

We agree LiberalLovinLug Apr 2017 #155

LOL NurseJackie Apr 2017 #158

+1000! sheshe2 Apr 2017 #142

How'd that work out? George II Apr 2017 #88

. randome Apr 2017 #90

How's it work out when no one tries at all? beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #96

So where is Vermont's free tuition? R B Garr Apr 2017 #97

Legislators can propose all they want, getting results is another story. George II Apr 2017 #98

Nice edit there to add snark about Vermont to get around R B Garr Apr 2017 #99

Yes, he's excused for not proposing free tuition in Vermont because he's a Senator.... George II Apr 2017 #103

Do you and your crew ever wade into a thread that is covering efforts by Bernie working with Dems LiberalLovinLug Apr 2017 #130

No. n/t QC Apr 2017 #134

Word. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #144

Oh good god. nt JTFrog Apr 2017 #146

"you and your crew"? "your cohorts"? You say that and then talk about "positive energy"? George II Apr 2017 #139

+ infinity! sheshe2 Apr 2017 #143

Post removed Post removed Apr 2017 #147

Yes! mcar Apr 2017 #149

Sigh LiberalLovinLug Apr 2017 #151

Working against the "real enemy" for decades from within the Democratic Party... George II Apr 2017 #152

Have a nice evening George LiberalLovinLug Apr 2017 #157

We should all be united against fake news, though. R B Garr Apr 2017 #166

I agree LiberalLovinLug Apr 2017 #169

Yes, ironic is the polite word for it. R B Garr Apr 2017 #164

The same as when the try is done in such a poor way that no one synergie Apr 2017 #110

Yes, there is a long unimpressive history of submitting bills without doing any work. For some that seaglass Apr 2017 #122

Same result. George II Apr 2017 #153

Love his leadership! zentrum Apr 2017 #10

Surely you mean "THEIR" leadership? synergie Apr 2017 #46

Interesting take...from the linked article, the sub headline: George II Apr 2017 #104

Absolutely! zentrum Apr 2017 #120

Wow. That sounds like Clinton's plan. BainsBane Apr 2017 #11

Amazing isn't it? SunSeeker Apr 2017 #18

What is curious BainsBane Apr 2017 #20

Indeed. nt SunSeeker Apr 2017 #22

Are you talking about he plan Clinton adopted after the primary or the one she had previously. JCanete Apr 2017 #34

The one that they BOTH worked on. synergie Apr 2017 #47

yes, I agree it's a problem, not helped by people who then want to push back the opposite way, and JCanete Apr 2017 #56

Well, when the rhetroic is false, pushing back is what we as liberals do, is it not? synergie Apr 2017 #59

What win? This Republican Congress will never pass this plan. yardwork Apr 2017 #66

Democrats in agreement? working together? Clinton supporters and Sanders supporters being JCanete Apr 2017 #67

Many of us have been encouraging that all along. yardwork Apr 2017 #72

um, Democrats are not in opposition with each other. synergie Apr 2017 #118

My point about us being on the same side was that there didn't seem to be a divide on JCanete Apr 2017 #125

Preaching is this whole thing where people seem to think that there is only synergie Apr 2017 #148

So you are going to get into it. "Divisiveness was a one way street." Fucking a. I'm not in the mood JCanete Apr 2017 #154

Truth betsuni Apr 2017 #162

No, the original BainsBane Apr 2017 #75

no, I paid attention to the debates. Are you going to tell me she said one thing in them JCanete Apr 2017 #77

Not free for everyone BainsBane Apr 2017 #78

So, Clinton did not have a plan for free college tuition for people under 125,000 until early JCanete Apr 2017 #107

Not true BainsBane Apr 2017 #109

No this is not free for everyone- and it's not going to pass when there are so many more serious bettyellen Apr 2017 #101

It shows a contrast. These are ideas that are already popular or can garner popularity with the JCanete Apr 2017 #105

I think Dems need to be focused and unified right now, not showboating just yet. bettyellen Apr 2017 #106

well they are unified on this aren't they? Its not showboating, in my opinion. It is JCanete Apr 2017 #127

To me the approach is pretty scatter shot. An emphasis on Russian investigation, fixing the ACA bettyellen Apr 2017 #129

It is, basically. That's actually stated in the linked article. George II Apr 2017 #94

Nope. She started at 85k, and increased to 125k, this one just starts at 125k. synergie Apr 2017 #124

he changed it to be more like HRCs plan? bettyellen Apr 2017 #13

This is similar to what he proposed way back in 2015 and later became part of the Dem platform. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #15

No, he could not have joined the paid speech circuit. He's a Senator. betsuni Apr 2017 #17

Oh well, my point stands - he's still fighting for his plan. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #19

So walk me through this... Capt.Yellowbeard Apr 2017 #23

So we should just stop fighting for what's important when we think we can't win? beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #27

Heck of a walk through! Capt.Yellowbeard Apr 2017 #70

Yes, let's just give up and not propose any legislation for the next two years. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #73

Gotta keep that powder dry! n/t QC Apr 2017 #111

Absolutely! Lawd knows we might need it some day. :) beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #114

There should be tons of it by now. n/t QC Apr 2017 #115

Progressives don't sit around and wait to fight, they keep pushing ahead. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #116

+1 QC Apr 2017 #117

+2! Rhiannon12866 Apr 2017 #165

thanks scottie LiberalLovinLug Apr 2017 #168

President Obama proposed free tuition for Community Colleges... George II Apr 2017 #92

I'm glad Bernie is finally on board with Hillary's plan. nt SunSeeker Apr 2017 #24

Except Bernie introduced a similar bill in 2015 and ran on it in 2016. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #26

How silly. Hillary proposed an income cap college plan. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #28

Was that in 2015? Because again that's when Bernie introduced his bill. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #29

No, the 2015 "Free College for All" bill was not this income cap bill. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #30

So you agree he originally came up with the plan and you're onboard now? Good to hear! beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #31

No, I support Hillary's plan and am glad Bernie is finally on board! SunSeeker Apr 2017 #32

Except this is Bernie's bill - and it's the second one he introduced! beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #33

Bernie slapped his name on Hillary's plan. It's Hillary who's being a sport about it. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #35

Both his original 2015 bill and this one are named the 'College For All' Act. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #37

come on, we know Clinton changed her plan to promote free college tuition after the primary as JCanete Apr 2017 #36

Thank you. It's all in the article I cited up-thread. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #38

Come on, Hillary had her plan before the primaries were held. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #39

That plan is from August 2015, Bernie introduced his bill in May. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #40

Bernie's 2015 bill had no income cap, unlike Hillary's 2015 plan. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #42

Really? When did she introduce her plan? The articles I found show it was after May. beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #43

I'm glad to see Bernie now supports Hillary's income cap idea for college assistance. nt SunSeeker Apr 2017 #45

yes and that she came around on free college tuition. they both moved. That's great! Its good! JCanete Apr 2017 #55

And if we bother to read both plans, we realize that Bernie embraced her ideas synergie Apr 2017 #57

I agree with you. I quibble on the point about Clinton and why she used a Trump example, because JCanete Apr 2017 #58

She also used Chelsea to make that point. synergie Apr 2017 #61

I think you seem a little confused about what Bernie's bill actually was in 2015. synergie Apr 2017 #54

wait, after what we were just talking about, why did you write this this way? Given that free JCanete Apr 2017 #62

It's in the article. She did have free tuition in her plan, but for synergie Apr 2017 #63

I'm missing that in the article. She wanted tuition commensurate with what families could afford, JCanete Apr 2017 #65

It's in the NYtimes one. synergie Apr 2017 #68

that isn't what I mean for sure. of course Sanders didn't invent the idea, any more than he JCanete Apr 2017 #69

You might want to take a look at some of the posts on this page, including the one synergie Apr 2017 #112

Points to you, they didn't evolve on the issue. Not sure that was that important. JCanete Apr 2017 #123

I said all along that divisive fiction is gting pushback. synergie Apr 2017 #128

Well, to quibble. I pointed out how you front-loaded your post. That isn't cherry picking if JCanete Apr 2017 #131

Props to Bernie for working with the party BainsBane Apr 2017 #102

props to your post. For real. nt JCanete Apr 2017 #126

No, your point doesn't still stand because it's R B Garr Apr 2017 #51

+10000 betsuni Apr 2017 #60

She did indeed take his ideas and added in essential portions synergie Apr 2017 #48

Hilary's policy chops helped Bernie's idea very well, I see. nt fun n serious Apr 2017 #21

Visionaries need people who know how to actually acheive their goals and ideas. synergie Apr 2017 #49

This Kahuna7 Apr 2017 #71

One step is how it actually happens. Saying it can't happen but some step can happen is how JCanete Apr 2017 #156

The policy that enacts a vague idea is not a step, it's literally how a thing gets synergie Apr 2017 #159

I think most people believe every step in the right direction is a good thing. JCanete Apr 2017 #163

Here's video of Bernie, Elizabeth, Pramila and others introducing the bill: beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #50

Strange that he's not giving Flynn, Trump and Sessions the kind of treatment he gave Barack. ucrdem Apr 2017 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author QC Apr 2017 #136

Yeah, he's been really soft on those guys. QC Apr 2017 #137

WELL DONE, SIR! beam me up scottie Apr 2017 #140

Thank ye kindly. ma'am. n/t QC Apr 2017 #141

You might say that. Here's what the first link eventually clicks to: ucrdem Apr 2017 #160

Alas... Mike Nelson Apr 2017 #53

What a waste of time and effort Tribalceltic Apr 2017 #64

Well, Tribalceltic.... democrank Apr 2017 #74

Don't be so shortsighted and foolish. Blue_Warrior Apr 2017 #80

You would like to be as "smart" as the Republicans? Tribalceltic Apr 2017 #85

Yeah, the repigs have been wiped out the last eight years. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2017 #161

And Republicans, en masse, fell to the floor in gales of laughter. Vinca Apr 2017 #76

Still dont understand how this would work MichMan Apr 2017 #79

Exactly. My kids are attending junior college TexasMommaWithAHat Apr 2017 #119

It's a good question. I'm not sure at this state that it regulates prices, but it could and should, JCanete Apr 2017 #167

Way to go Bernie! MuseRider Apr 2017 #83

Oh, yeah, it's that time of year again. randome Apr 2017 #86

We're either LWolf Apr 2017 #87

Yep, not his plan... tallahasseedem Apr 2017 #91

In Denmark, college is not only free -- all students get a STIPEND to attend! mainer Apr 2017 #93

What percentage of the population goes to college? brooklynite Apr 2017 #95

Ding. Ding. Ding! TexasMommaWithAHat Apr 2017 #121

Love that Bernie is still here fighting for us! RandiFan1290 Apr 2017 #108

Sure hope that was not a swipe at Obama or Hillary who are no longer in office. sheshe2 Apr 2017 #145

Umm, Bernie just published a book mcar Apr 2017 #150

Here's an important point we should be sure not to miss... QC Apr 2017 #133

Thank you Bernie!! Arazi Apr 2017 #138